Obligation - online Mass?

[Glennon_P]

Yesterday during the streaming Mass the number of viewers peaked at 125

Although, consider this:

The four people in our house watched four different Masses yesterday, none of which were our parish’s Mass.

I watched the Mass the diocese televises on a local station.

Mrs. Glennon watched a livestreamed Mass from several states away. She follows this particular priest online.

Daughter #1 (who is staying with us during the quarantine but actually lives out of state) watched the livestream of her home parish hundreds of miles away.

Daughter #2 worked in the morning and watched a different livestream when she got home.

With thousands of Masses available online, there are many more choices than attending in person would offer.

I appreciate your concern about people not returning to Mass in person because of habits picked up during the quarantine. But I guess I’m just more optimistic. People who have been faithful attendees of Mass prior, and are now watching livestream, will return as soon as they are able.

People who weren’t attending before likely aren’t watching livestream in any appreciable numbers.

 

[Maragal]

Its related! But I respectfully disagree, Mike in VA. I have far more faith that people understand 1)why we are in lock down 2)that God understands why we are in lockdown and 3)that people who love the Lord will love the Lord, and those who are “lukewarm” will remain so or not - but the lockdown wont impact that.

And we dont really “know” what others are doing…they could be watching other Masses, praying with their families, doing spiritual reading. Hey they might be realizing they MISS Mass!

We will have to agree to differ! Its a good discussion!

 

[babochka]

If one has access to internet or television, and they cannot for any reason attend Mass wouldn’t they want to view the Mass out of desire without regard to whether or not doing so is obligatory?

Happy Easter!

I don’t really care for livestream or recorded Masses. I feel disconnected from the Mass and find it difficult to pray well.

We have a Divine obligation to keep the day holy and we can do this in a variety of ways, including watching Mass on TV. During most weeks of this shutdown, I have chosen other ways.

 

[dscath]

I have chosen other ways.

Be at peace then…I never meant to imply that anyone HAD to do anything…fmy basic contention is that many feel the need to keep Holy the day an obligation rather than a desire…I my mind, it should be both, but that’s just an opinion.

 

[Gorgias]

My parish has 2400 families. Yesterday during the streaming Mass the number of viewers peaked at 125, so I think the vast majority of parishioners are not spending any time in prayer during this lock down.

So, if your parish is like the “average” parish in the U.S., then 1/4 of its parishioners attend weekend Mass. That would be about 600 viewers, give or take. Subtract from that the number of your parishioners in the demographic of “I have no idea how to use this PC my grandchildren bought me”, and maybe 125 isn’t too low a number.

At my parish, during a recent pastoral council meeting (well… teleconference), we estimated that maybe up to half of our parishioners had internet / Facebook / email access. What do you think that percentage might be for ya’ll?

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

You keep repeating the phrase “good enough” in reference to a streamed/televised Mass and spiritual communion. I have yet to hear any priest or bishop describe it that way.

 

[MikeInVA]

Maybe not the exact words, “good enough,” but all of the emphasis on spiritual communion comes across that way. I have yet to hear a priest say something like, “We are obligated to receive Communion once a year, but we are obligated to attend Mass every week, so observe the celebration of Mass on the stream and reflect on how wonderful it will be when you can attend in person and receive Communion.” Spiritual communion is a nice prayer but it is nothing like receiving our Lord in Communion, but I think it is presented as such. YMMV.

 

[MikeInVA]

What do you think that percentage might be for ya’ll?

We had nearly as many Knights of Columbus online for our last meeting, and our average age is over 60, so I don’t think technology is the issue.

 

[Gorgias]

We had nearly as many Knights of Columbus online for our last meeting, and our average age is over 60, so I don’t think technology is the issue.

Well… it’s not like they’re out golfing on a Sunday morning!

But yeah, I think @Glennon_P had a good point – there are now so many live streams available, and all are equally available to you (i.e., you don’t have to drive 90 minutes to get to the one you really like), and so, that dilutes the congregation.

 

[whatistrue]

My parish has 2400 families. Yesterday during the streaming Mass the number of viewers peaked at 125, so I think the vast majority of parishioners are not spending any time in prayer during this lock down. Those who do watch are told that a spiritual communion is good enough, and if you can’t get to confession during the lock down that God understands.

Not everyone who watches does so during the live stream if it is recorded and available later. And not watching a livestreamed or recorded Mass doesn’t automatically mean not praying. And if you read the spiritual communion prayer, it doesn’t say that it is “good enough”, and anyone who says it is isn’t paying attention. God always did understand if you couldn’t get to confession, so why should it matter if it is because of the pandemic or because you were sick or didn’t have transportation?

 

[MikeInVA]

Not everyone who watches does so during the live stream if it is recorded and available later.

I agree that there are more people engaged than show up for the live stream, but even double the number is still only 10% of the families.

And not watching a live streamed or recorded Mass doesn’t automatically mean not praying.

Maybe I’m skeptical, but I doubt that folks are missing the live stream because their Rosary ran long.

At this time, this is all speculation. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[whatistrue]

My main point was that not watching the livestream live doesn’t necessarily mean not watching at all ever, or not watching a different stream either live or recorded. But in any case, making assumptions about what is in someone else’s heart when there is absolutely no way for one to even know what they are doing, much less what they are thinking, is not a good thing in my opinion.

 

[OraLabora]

Indeed. As I have said earlier I cannot watch livestream very effectively due to my poor satellite internet connection. It’s just too choppy and syncopated, it does not make for a very prayerful experience. Many of us in rural Canada have that problem. But I do pray the LOTH faithfully every day. So I am praying! And I’m sure I’m not alone that would rather pray privately than watch a livestream Mass.

 

[MikeInVA]

My comments aren’t meant to disparage; my concern is with how the priests plan to get folks back into the pews when this is all over.

 

[whatistrue]

I can only reply to what is written. Like conflating livestream numbers and whether people are praying, etc… Whether it was your intent or not, the tone came across to me as disparaging. And this is the first time I have seen you mention a concern about how the priests are going to manage something in the future.

 

[MikeInVA]

I think the real challenge will be when the lock down is over in convincing everyone who has been told that watching streaming Mass and doing a spiritual communion is good enough that they now are obliged to go to Mass in person.

I’m sorry if I’ve been unclear. Perhaps I’m the only one who sees this as an issue.

 

[whatistrue]

I don’t think you have been unclear, and I don’t think that you are completely alone. I just think that your premises are flawed.

 

[new-kirishitan]

I don’t know which diocese you are from, but here in the Archdiocese of Tokyo we are basically dispensed from attending Mass completely until further notice. We are still supposed to pray though, and we are encouraged to watch Sunday Masses online. By the way, watching online Mass typically doesn’t satisfy the Sunday obligation.

 

[PetraG]

I think the real challenge will be when the lock down is over in convincing everyone who has been told that watching streaming Mass and doing a spiritual communion is good enough that they now are obliged to go to Mass in person.

True, but it may also be that Catholics, like school children, will value what they lost more after this crisis than they did before they were forbidden to meet obligations that they once valued too little.

In other words, while some may value the ability to fulfill their obligations less, perhaps many others may value it even more.

All in all, I don’t think it will be difficult to get the kids to want to go back to school. Let’s hope that is the way it is for our other obligations, too. Meanwhile, let’s hope that we gain an appetite for those things we ought to have done on our own but neglected because we busied ourselves with other things, such as reading and personal prayer (or even baking and sewing and contacting friends we have been out of touch with for a long time).

 

[Maragal]

MikeinVa, I dont think you’ve been unclear, I think you have a different opinion of most of us on this thread- which is ok! Its a good discussion.
I just think most of us are more optimistic that those who love Mass will be aching to go back, and those who are or were seemingly lukewarm (though we dont know for sure - we cant read hearts), will be lukewarm with the lock down having no real impact, one way or the other. And I propose yet another, perhaps fabulous, result - maybe some of the seemingly lukewarm will actually feel called back to devotion! (Ive just noticed Petrag above suggests something similar)