Obligation to stop a marriage?

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Okie1

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What is my obligation to protest a Catholic marriage? I am good friends with an engaged couple who potentially should not be married. She essentially coerced him into asking by throwing a big fit. She thinks NFP is a cult, even though he wants to wait to have kids until he is out of grad school. I believe she intends to get pregnant without his consent. She had told me as much. Do i have a moral obligation to let their priest know of these conflicts?
 
You need to tell THEM. I’ve told an ex girlfriend I didn’t think she should get married to someone she did (he later died), as I knew both of them and knew it was a bad idea. If they get married, you’ve done nothing wrong, but were I you, I would explain my objections.
 
You need to talk to both of them. If you’re a guy her telling you all this is highly inappropriate.
 
Okie1 said:
I believe she intends to get pregnant without his consent. She had told me as much.
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Just a little bone to pick with your phrasing. She can’t get pregnant without his consent unless she plans to rape him. Presumably, he will be choosing to engage in the marital act of his own free will. That is, he will be choosing to engage in an act which is in its essence designed to create babies. I understand that you probably meant she is planning on sabotaging or lying about contraceptive use. The sin there is in the deception, not in getting pregnant when one’s spouse doesn’t wish to have a child.

Are you friends with the priest that intends to marry them or would you need to seek him out? If you are friendly with him, you might ask him a sort of hypothetical scenario, “Father, suppose someone knew information that made it seem like an engaged couple ought not to get married? What would you suggest that person do?” and see what he says.
 
I didn’t mean rape. I meant she would like about her days of fertility. Which would still in some ways be getting pregnant again her consent.
They have a semi-abusive relationship in general. He makes fun of her mental health and she talks openly about his flaws.
I don’t personally know the priest, but I do know who the officiant is. I could conceivably contact him.
 
I have told her on multiple occasions. It hasn’t gone anywhere. Do you think I’ve done my moral duty?
 
In addition to what you have already done, you should not attend their wedding and make it clear the reason is because of the sins she has already told you about plus the ones she plans to commit later.
 
I fail to see how your telling the priest any of this is going to stop a marriage.

The girl “threw a fit” and the guy agreed to marry her: this is your opinion and the guy’s choice to make. As long as she isn’t threatening to murder his entire family or blackmail him, this is their own business and if the adult male involved isn’t going to remove himself from the engagement in the 6 months it likely takes to set up a wedding, then he must not be objecting too hard.

The girl doesn’t like NFP: there is no obligation for a Catholic to use NFP, only an obligation not to use artificial means. You think she is planning to get pregnant, so it doesn’t sound like she is planning to use artificial means.

The girl plans to get pregnant without husband’s “consent”; assuming she is planning to get pregnant by husband and not the meter reader, the husband in a Catholic marriage is consenting to a potential pregnancy every time he has sex with his wife, and the priest will tell you as much. If hubby doesn’t want kids yet then he shouldn’t be getting married and having sex till he is “ready”.

From reading this I’m not sure if one of these people is your family member or you’re overly attached to the groom-to-be, but you totally need to take a big step back and MYOB.
 
If things are really that terrible, this couple should throw a lot of red flags in marriage prep.
 
I don’t know the groom at all and am a happily married woman. I just don’t think my friend is in the right mindset to get married and making sure I’m in no obligation to object to what I can sense will be a disastrous marriage built on deception.
 
I guess you don’t think I’m under any moral obligation to protest this wedding. You didn’t have to be such a jerk about it
 
This is it, right here.

Anyone who plans to get married in the Catholic church, will be going through marriage preparation or Pre-Cana.

We had our marriage convalidated, and we went through it.

My husband and I filled out paperwork and questionnaires and we met with our pastor of the parish that I/we were attending at the time.

He interviewed us/talked to us together, and talked to each of us separately, too.

We met with him several times.

I remember how serious and how solemn the whole process was.
 
The way you’re presenting it as "moral obligation ", like you are somehow more moral than these people (who at least are taking steps to get married and not just live together) is also unmannerly. One person above suggested if you are concerned for your friend or friends, you should tell THEM this marriage is a bad idea in your opinion. Of course, if you do that you need to be prepared for them to ignore you and continue with their plans, or maybe even get mad and end the friendship. But if a person A felt strongly his friend B was making a huge life mistake, then A might take the risk and tell B this.

You’re not putting it that way, though. You’re saying you think this wedding is immoral and you are going to go “tell the priest on them.” The priest is spending time with them doing marriage prep and is asking them many questions and is sending them to pre-Cana. If there’s a big problem here, that process is designed to uncover it.

I can see going to the priest if you were the parent of one of these people and concerned for their welfare (and even then the priest might tell Parent that the parties getting married are adults and must make their own choice). I can see going to the priest if you knew of a real impediment to the marriage, like one of them had been married and divorced and lied to the priest about it. I could even see going to the priest if one of them was showing up with bruises and you thought they were being beaten. But you’re just going on a lot of he-said she said about stuff that is personal to this couple. It’s not the type of thing a friend goes running to the priest over.
 
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I don’t mean to offend you, but it really looks like you’re mingling in this couple. Like you said they joke about each other in a way you wouldn’t like it done to you and define this as abusive.
Maybe they are both extravagant by nature, and they’re showing off. In that case whatever she said she plans to do may be nothing, just something she said to say something grand.
Maybe you feel entitled to mingle because they openly criticize themselves in public, so in a way they are inviting everyone in. But if you will actually do anything to stop them being together they both will be your enemies and your friendship will be gone. Plus you can’t stop them do anything, all you can do now is compromise yourself.
The label of a “gossiper” is a hard one, and don’t think you will not get it if you plan to do actively interfere with them. And they both definitely don’t seem the type who would hold their mouth easily when their mind is set.
 
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Many years ago I heard a very wise man say this about a Jewish tradition. “Never give advice unless asked, and then only if you think the person will consider it.” I tend to want to be a little liberal with advice-giving myself, which these boards are an outlet. People here can take it or leave it. LOL. But, even here I try very hard to follow that ‘rule’.

Your friend isn’t asking for advice, they will be undergoing an examination in Pre-cana (which my dh and I almost failed) and they choose each other so far.
But, I can feel you wince anyway. Do something good for them and have a Mass said for them. I believe if you want to your Parish can set one up, or you can contact a very nice organization such as the Seraphic Mass Association. https://www.seraphicmass.org/cards_info.asp

Every couple getting married will need all the prayers they can get.
 
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First of all if the response to her pitching a fit is to marry her, it means that he probably loves her. One of the reasons I know that my boyfriend wants to be with me. Is when I got upset about the lack of time (he is super busy) his response after about couple of hours was baby, do you want to go to dinner tomorrow. And we were just seeing each other.
If Men don’t want to be with a woman they will run for the hills at signs of clinginess. If men want to be with a woman, some even look for the clinginess. So this guy may not be upset at all that she wants to marry him. I have a super hard time believing he would marry her if he didn’t want too.

No relationship is perfect. They all have the issues.
As for the NFP thing, if she’s openly telling you this she’s probably told others and I suspect her fiancé probably knows she wants kids right away. If he is not participating in the NFP process with her as a couple learning about it together well than he has to know there’s a chance she’s not all on board with holding of children. I personally find NFP a little cultish myself too… Don’t get me wrong the deception is wrong, but who knows she just may not do it at all.

I see nothing wrong with voicing concerns. But I think you voice your concerns and then you let people make their own choice. You are not God. Your are not in the relationship with them. No relationship is perfect. There are reasons both of them want to marry the other. I have quietly expressed my concerns to some friends and a family member on some occasions. But you know what I would do after I expressed my concerns? I would be a friend and in every case I would try to rejoice with them/attend the ceremony regardless of the reservations. Going to the Priest in my opinion is too much. As is going to the guy. What if these two are really suppose to be together? Who are you to say they aren’t. And no one should stop a ceremony in an actual ceremony. if you have reservations say something beforehand. In may cases with reservation it has normally been about rushed relationships…

In some cases, my reservations have been right on. In some case they have been actually wrong or are wrong so far. People’s decision on who to marry is incredibly personal for them. If this is a guy who is wanting to practice NFP even though he doesn’t want kids right now, I would assume that he’s actually prayed about his decision to marry is praying about it. In the end, God’s going to speak to the couple and will hopefully speak to her heart about starting the relationship right.

Talk with your friend the female and ask her about starting her marriage with the best possible move forward when it comes to NFP and children. If you present it to her in that way, she may be more than willing to listen. Than if you present it in a way of the two of you definitely don’t belong together.
 
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You don’t have an obligation. To be honest I’d think the most likely thing if you bring these concerns up in this manner is that this particular friendship will end. Nobody wants to be told “you shouldn’t marry this person”.

Most men will not “be coerced” into proposing. If he wanted to propose, he’ll do it sooner or later, and your friend’s “fit” might just have been the extra push. Women do all sorts of things when they’re eager for their man to propose. I highly doubt a man who wasn’t interested in proposing anyway would be sticking around if there was pressure to propose. Every relationship that is entered with the possibility of marriage has the assumption/expectation on the part of the woman especially that a proposal will be forthcoming at some point.

As for the NFP thing, well…a married couple must be going in with the intention of having kids and being open to life. While it might not be the best for someone to lie about the fertile times, every couple should be aware that each and every sex act is can potentially lead to a baby.

Also, when you say “protest a catholic marriage” are you imagining some official way…“speak now or forever hold your peace” kind of thing? That doesn’t exist really, you can’t really protest a catholic marriage unless you have some information that would 100% make the marriage invalid. Like that the bride and groom are siblings separated at birth or something.
 
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This might not go over well with some CAF members following this thread, but MYOB, and just don’t attend the ceremony.
 
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