Obligations of Forgiveness

[lakotak]

I have a question about the answer given in “Ask an Apologist” on whether we should forgive a person that does not ask for repentance.

Since, according to the answer, that if God does not forgive the unrepentant, we have no obligation to either. Do we commit a sin against God if we do forgive a person that has done harm to us. Suppose we find it in our heart that we want to forgive that person.

Also, what about Jesus forgiving the ones that crucified Him. Did He forgive them because of their ignorance as to what they were doing? I don’t read anywhere where they asked for forgiveness.

Just a little confused here. May some of you who are much more learned than I am can explain this a little further. Thanks.

 

[Della]

I cannot speak for Jim Blackburn, but the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

2844 Christian prayer extends to the forgiveness of enemies, transfiguring the disciple by configuring him to his Master. Forgiveness is a high-point of Christian prayer; only hearts attuned to God’s compassion can receive the gift of prayer. Forgiveness also bears witness that, in our world, love is stronger than sin. The martyrs of yesterday and today bear this witness to Jesus. Forgiveness is the fundamental condition of the reconciliation of the children of God with their Father and of men with one another. scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2844.htm

It seems to me that we are to forgive even if the person is unrepentent for we are not God and cannot judge in perfect justice and with full knowledge of the other person’s heart.

Jesus declared on the cross: “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” So, he understood they did not know who they were crucifying. Still, Jesus is God Incarnate, so his judgment of their knowledge/motivations was perfect and perfectly motivated by love.

 

[lakotak]

I cannot speak for Jim Blackburn, but the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

2844 Christian prayer extends to the forgiveness of enemies, transfiguring the disciple by configuring him to his Master. Forgiveness is a high-point of Christian prayer; only hearts attuned to God’s compassion can receive the gift of prayer. Forgiveness also bears witness that, in our world, love is stronger than sin. The martyrs of yesterday and today bear this witness to Jesus. Forgiveness is the fundamental condition of the reconciliation of the children of God with their Father and of men with one another. scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2844.htm

It seems to me that we are to forgive even if the person is unrepentent for we are not God and cannot judge in perfect justice and with full knowledge of the other person’s heart.

This was my understanding, but the response of the Apologist has confused me on this issue.

 

[Genesis315]

This is a tough one. I think both Della’s and Jim Blackburn’s answers are compelling (Blackburn cites the Scripture which says of one’s sinning brother, “if he repents, forgive him.” Just to add to the discussion, in the encyclical Dives in Misericordia, Pope Bl. John Paul wrote the following:

"Christ emphasizes so insistently the need to forgive others that when Peter asked Him how many times he should forgive his neighbor He answered with the symbolic number of "seventy times seven,“131 meaning that he must be able to forgive everyone every time. It is obvious that such a generous requirement of forgiveness does not cancel out the objective requirements of justice. Properly understood, justice constitutes, so to speak, the goal of forgiveness. In no passage of the Gospel message does forgiveness, or mercy as its source, mean indulgence towards evil, towards scandals, towards injury or insult. **In any case, reparation for evil and scandal, compensation for injury, and satisfaction for insult are conditions for forgiveness. **”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_30111980_dives-in-misericordia_en.html

 

[Della]

Bl. John Paul forgave the man who shot him without, as I recall, him first indicating he was sorry for having done so. Forgiveness doesn’t mean the prepetrator gets off scot free, but it does mean we let go of our desire for revenge or even personal compensation. Certainly one who commits a crime must pay his debt to society, but we are able to forgive him whether he pays that debt or not.

 

[lakotak]

This is a tough one. I think both Della’s and Jim Blackburn’s answers are compelling (Blackburn cites the Scripture which says of one’s sinning brother, “if he repents, forgive him.” Just to add to the discussion, in the encyclical Dives in Misericordia, Pope Bl. John Paul wrote the following:

"Christ emphasizes so insistently the need to forgive others that when Peter asked Him how many times he should forgive his neighbor He answered with the symbolic number of "seventy times seven,“131 meaning that he must be able to forgive everyone every time. It is obvious that such a generous requirement of forgiveness does not cancel out the objective requirements of justice. Properly understood, justice constitutes, so to speak, the goal of forgiveness. In no passage of the Gospel message does forgiveness, or mercy as its source, mean indulgence towards evil, towards scandals, towards injury or insult. **In any case, reparation for evil and scandal, compensation for injury, and satisfaction for insult are conditions for forgiveness. **”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_30111980_dives-in-misericordia_en.html

Blackburn indicates that if we forgive without the person actually repenting and asking for forgiveness that we are counting ourselves higher than God because He does not forgive without repentance. In this case it would seem that we are committing a sin against God by forgiving someone who is not asking for forgiveness. At least, if I am understanding his reply properly.

 

[Della]

Blackburn indicates that if we forgive without the person actually repenting and asking for forgiveness that we are counting ourselves higher than God because He does not forgive without repentance. In this case it would seem that we are committing a sin against God by forgiving someone who is not asking for forgiveness. At least, if I am understanding his reply properly.

You are extrapolating sin where there is none. It is never a sin to forgive another person. As I indicated, we are not God. God alone can exact perfect justice and judge perfectly. He tells us to forgive each other because we would be sinning against his justice not to do so.

In the parable of the man whose debt was forgiven by his master but who wouldn’t forgive the debt of a fellow servant, the master’s judgment against the unforgiving servant for his unforgiveness was extremely harsh. True, both made promises of reparation, but still we are to forgive without expecting personal reparation, but leave the judgment of that person’s life/soul to God.

We are not putting ourselves above God if we forgive without the other person showing signs of repentance, we are submitting ourselves to the fact that God alone is the judge of another’s motives. When we stand before God his is going to ask us if we forgave one another under submission to his command to do so. He is not going to think we put ourselve above him by doing what he has commanded us to do.

 

[lakotak]

You are extrapolating sin where there is none. It is never a sin to forgive another person. As I indicated, we are not God. God alone can exact perfect justice and judge perfectly. He tells us to forgive each other because we would be sinning against his justice not to do so.

In the parable of the man whose debt was forgiven by his master but who wouldn’t forgive the debt of a fellow servant, the master’s judgment against the unforgiving servant for his unforgiveness was extremely harsh. True, both made promises of reparation, but still we are to forgive without expecting personal reparation, but leave the judgment of that person’s life/soul to God.

We are not putting ourselves above God if we forgive without the other person showing signs of repentance, we are submitting ourselves to the fact that God alone is the judge of another’s motives. When we stand before God his is going to ask us if we forgave one another under submission to his command to do so. He is not going to think we put ourselve above him by doing what he has commanded us to do.

Thanks for this information. This is what I have been doing all along, but when I read the Apologist’s response, I thought I may have been doing something wrong and just did not realize it. This makes total sense to me.

 

[Della]

lakotak:
Thanks for this information. This is what I have been doing all along, but when I read the Apologist’s response, I thought I may have been doing something wrong and just did not realize it. This makes total sense to me.

You’re welcome. :tiphat:

 

[dee_burk]

i just always remember the Lords Prayer and try to follow it. If i want forgiveness, i must forgive.