Observation: Evil all around

[Peregrinans]

Just an observation about my spiritual growth I thought I would share.

Ever since I returned fully to the Church, about 7 years ago, I have grown leaps and bounds spiritually as a result of learning about the faith, studying the ECFs, delving deeper into scripture, and understanding the history of Christianity.

Of course, I also try to obey the commandments, go to confession, attend mass and receive the Eucharist so I can stay in Communion with Christ.

What I have also noticed, sometimes shockingly, is how I am now more keenly aware of waywardness, corruption, and wickedness than I ever have been in the past. Sometimes, it is almost overwhelming and I wonder “why” I was so numb to it before?

I tend to think it is because I am more connected, via the Eucharist, with the holy so now that I am aware of the light, the darkness seems even darker. Like when you come in from a sunny bright day into the house and everything appears dark and shadowy. The room didn’t change, your perception did.

The odd part is that I probably seemed more accepting and part of the crowd in the past. I was one of those people in the dark It was more comfortable in there. For instance, foul language, cursing, crass behavior, immortally, mean spirit-ness, anti-God, vulgarity, licentiousness, was just a part of entertainment and or society. It did mean anything. Everywhere you look debauchery is celebrated and encouraged. My attitude used to be, “well the whole world is like this, what difference does it make what anyone says or does? Why should I care?”

Now, I am saddened, repulsed and I don’t want to see or hear it. It isn’t entertaining anymore, it isn’t worthwhile of my notice anymore. Now I see it all as just the mindless ruminations of profane human beings who have decided to embrace their animistic instincts and are blind to all that is holy and divine. And now I just pray for them, strive to love them, and hope that one day they get tired of being in the dark , too.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

It sounds like all of the things you are doing spiritually are active things. From these you can learn, and from observation you will become more sensitive and you will see how people use words to confuse things and all.

But becoming more aware is just the first step. The first thing that can happen with learning “intellectual knowledge” about your faith, is that as Paul says knowledge puffs up with pride. You see these errors in others, but thus far it is separating you from them. It’s tempting to fancy yourself above “others who do these things.”

The reason I mention active, is that with Catholics and even Christians in general, the whole notion of trying to “win favor with God” through good behavior seems to be a goal. Being “more correct” or “more Catholic” or “better informed on matters of the faith” are all Good Things, but without balance they are almost sure to skyrocket the pride. That isn’t necessarily a “bad” thing, depending on your trust level in the Holy Spirit. Because sometimes the pride has to be build up before it can be transformed through situations and open heart/mind into humility – and can be pretty harsh feeling when it comes down.

The big gap I see is you are not mentioning things that actually put you into experiential union with Jesus. Apophatic practices in general, which the Church has become very weak on especially since the days of the Reformation where it all became about who was right as opposed to how to do the work of Jesus, have been lost in mainstream Catholicism but luckily have survived the centuries in the monasteries and cloisters and are starting to become available for everyone, since Vatican II when it was affirmed that holiness is for everyone, not just the religious.

Living healthy doesn’t necessarily mean you study medical texts and start being everyone’s doctor. Just the same I see people picking up bits and pieces of scripture and Catholic documentation and testing it out to learn but also using them as weapons of dispute. I know this because I was very good at that myself and honestly still do have that pride issue but for the contemplative practices (and even inter-religious dialog) that has helped me learn to accept the kingdom as it is, rather than as I think it should be.

So be wary of when you see everyone else but you, sinning. I got to take a course by Fr. Robert Barron in the Seven Deadly Sins, and it was funny how the sins were ordered, using a model by something called “Dante’s Divine Comedy” and “Mount Purgatorio”. Pride is at the base of the mountain, and underlies all the other sinful tendencies. It seems kind of ironic that when you hear people accusing others of sin, it’s almost always going to be either sins of “excessive love” (greed, gluttony and lust) or “deficient love” (sloth) but it’s so often coming from a position of presumed superiority or other “perverted love” type sins, the base of which is pride, and also includes anger and envy. It’s easy to see gosh why do they get to sin and I don’t, or maybe it’s hard to find that dynamic within yourself because it’s deeply buried and is why Jesus told parables to try to “stick it to” those who were stuck in a story.

For example in story after story, Jesus is featured shaming the “wise” and the proud by comparing them unfavorably to the tax collectors and sexual sinners. So if you fill your head with knowledge about sin and see “others sinning” then you may be experiencing this same dynamic. The veil of presumed knowledge (see 1 Cor 13 for a smack-down on knowledge being tantamount to love) hides us from our own pride.

Also, contrary to what others may say, you cannot see “sin” per se in others, as a human. You can see behavior that you fancy would be sinful if you did it, but you cannot judge their hearts – maybe make a pretty good guess but not presume to know except through empathy and a similar cognitive process that empathizes with it. Jesus said “forgive them Father for they know not what they do” which gives us a clue – if Jesus says they don’t know what they do to people who are in the process of viciously torturing and killing Him for absolutely no sin at all, then who are we to presume that “you clearly knew better so therefore it is a sin?”

Jesus tells us not to judge, but I have a hard time finding four or five Catholics in one place who will even entertain taking our Lord seriously – because we have been trained by western culture and attitudes, the same exact ones that were in place when Jesus was on earth, to be judgmental and individualistic.

So for one thing, I’d suggest turning your study into some of the more “mystical” saints that give us a different flavor than our Thomistic world view. Like St. John of the Cross, and St. Teresa of Avila. Read the first few paragraphs of “Dark Night of the Soul” and see just how tricky pride can behave and pretend it’s not pride at all.

Get into some practices that will let you “rest in God” by opening your heart and mind, and giving them a vacation from calculating and worry so they can allow the Holy Spirit to act. When your head is not thinking with attention to a constant stream of information, it can be open to the action of the Holy Spirit. The most common thing is contemplative prayer, which Catholics are told in the CCC (2708) that prayer life SHOULD include because it brings us into actual union with Jesus’s prayer. But it isn’t nearly common enough IMO, which is why I promote it. That doesn’t necessarily fix everything, but it can be a key to opening up new pathways toward holiness that not amount of scholarly study could bring to us and in fact can build our pride which, being of perverted love, keeps us from being united with each other or with Jesus.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Thank you Mystical Seeker, very helpful.

 

[Convert1]

So for one thing, I’d suggest turning your study into some of the more “mystical” saints that give us a different flavor than our Thomistic world view. Like St. John of the Cross, and St. Teresa of Avila. Read the first few paragraphs of “Dark Night of the Soul” and see just how tricky pride can behave and pretend it’s not pride at all.

Get into some practices that will let you “rest in God” by opening your heart and mind, and giving them a vacation from calculating and worry so they can allow the Holy Spirit to act. When your head is not thinking with attention to a constant stream of information, it can be open to the action of the Holy Spirit. The most common thing is contemplative prayer, which Catholics are told in the CCC (2708) that prayer life SHOULD include because it brings us into actual union with Jesus’s prayer. But it isn’t nearly common enough IMO, which is why I promote it. That doesn’t necessarily fix everything, but it can be a key to opening up new pathways toward holiness that not amount of scholarly study could bring to us and in fact can build our pride which, being of perverted love, keeps us from being united with each other or with Jesus.

One of the best posts I have read in a very long time. I read a great deal of St. Teresa of Avila’s writings and she has helped me tremendously with opening myself to the Holy Spirit and experiencing the overwhelming love I feel during contemplative prayer. I believe this, in turn, makes me feel more compassionate and empathetic for those who are lost spiritually. And allows me to act in a way that is more understanding and helpful toward them, as I think Christ would want me to do. Thank you, so much for sharing your thoughts. Very enlightening.

 

[GEddie]

Like it said in Ecclesiastes, there is nothing new under the sun.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Peregrinans]

The big gap I see is you are not mentioning things that actually put you into experiential union with Jesus.

Thanks for your post and I understand, but not mentioning something doesn’t make something nonexistent.

So be wary of when you see everyone else but you, sinning.

I don´t think this at all. I am definitely a sinner. Discerning sin in the society around you, doesn’t negate self discernment in fact it places a greater responsibility on us to not be hypocrites.

As we see in Mathew 7: 5 Jesus said, “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

You can see behavior that you fancy would be sinful if you did it, but you cannot judge their hearts – maybe make a pretty good guess but not presume to know except through empathy and a similar cognitive process that empathizes with it.

I agree, but often sin is celebrated and put out for all to see. Like television shows that focuses on one man illegally married to more than one woman. That is a blatant sin presented, I don’t judge them, or condemn then, but I discern the sin and turn my attention from it, then love and pray for the sinners. Or people who have drug parties and sex orgies, once again obvious sin sometimes celebrated on tv and other media. I discern the sin and avoid, etc.

Jesus said “forgive them Father for they know not what they do” which gives us a clue – if Jesus says they don’t know what they do to people who are in the process of viciously torturing and killing Him for absolutely no sin at all, then who are we to presume that “you clearly knew better so therefore it is a sin?”

I really don’t know what you mean here. Forgiveness is sought on their behalf because they are ignorant of their wrongdoing and therefore not culpable. Whether or not a sinner is guilty is always tied to their level of culpability and judged by God.

Jesus tells us not to judge, but I have a hard time finding four or five Catholics in one place who will even entertain taking our Lord seriously – because we have been trained by western culture and attitudes, the same exact ones that were in place when Jesus was on earth, to be judgmental and individualistic.

Discerning, judging and condemning are three different things. We are not to judge or condemn the sinner, but we are to discern sinful behavior and try to avoid it. We are also suppose to show compassion and love for the sinners, the same thing we as fellow sinners want, and pray on their behalf because they are either culpable or inculpable, but that is for Jesus to deside not us. But we are to be aware of sin, try to avoid and and seek forgiveness if we fall. That was sort of my point of my post. I was blind to a lot of sin, prior to my spiritual growth. I saw lot of what is obviously sin, as ok and no big deal. I was blind, so to speak. Now I am much more aware of it.

Get into some practices that will let you “rest in God” by opening your heart and mind, and giving them a vacation from calculating and worry so they can allow the Holy Spirit to act. When your head is not thinking with attention to a constant stream of information, it can be open to the action of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for the advice, I believe it is good advice, however not necessarily applicable to me. Perhaps my post gave the impression that I am a totally scholarly Christian, but I am not. I already read about the saints, believe in miracles, use contemplative prayer, pray to our Lord from my heart, mind and soul and join with Him in the Eucharist. And I am not prideful that I’ve seen the light, I am grateful that I did and sorrowful that it took me so long and more cognizant of how easily we all can fall back into the darkness.

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

Sometimes evil is .palpable. I see it in many ways. I hurt when I become aware of the terrible things that happen. I am not judging anyone, but the awakening is sometimes violent.

Sometimes evil drives me to tears. The worse is when I realize that I have done some of this evil at times in the past. The thoughtless word, the uncharitable thoughts, the unwillingness to be kind comes back to me.

In thinking someone else is not smart or whatever, it falls back on me. So in awakening to the evil around us, it is important to recognize it in ourselves as well.

 

[puzzledtoo]

Thank you mystical seeker for a wonderful read. And to the op here is a quote I like I got from someone on another forum(not catholic or Christian). The person’s screen name is Persephone.
“Becoming conscious of being unconscious is difficult work, and it’s not always perfect work. It is, however, very important work.”
When we are acting out as the world/culture expects us to on a regular basis we are blind as you mentioned or unconscious. Once we begin to develop a spiritual practice and deepen in it we begin to become conscious we begin to awaken and are extra sensitive to all that is around us good and bad. Sometimes for me anyhow I focus more on the bad or unskillful behavior of others-but then after a while I remember to look in the mirror or pull the log out of my eye. That “after a while” can be quite some time-for me anyway. Blessings to all.

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

It sounds like all of the things you are doing spiritually are active things. From these you can learn, and from observation you will become more sensitive and you will see how people use words to confuse things and all.

But becoming more aware is just the first step. The first thing that can happen with learning “intellectual knowledge” about your faith, is that as Paul says knowledge puffs up with pride. You see these errors in others, but thus far it is separating you from them. It’s tempting to fancy yourself above “others who do these things.”

The reason I mention active, is that with Catholics and even Christians in general, the whole notion of trying to “win favor with God” through good behavior seems to be a goal. Being “more correct” or “more Catholic” or “better informed on matters of the faith” are all Good Things, but without balance they are almost sure to skyrocket the pride. That isn’t necessarily a “bad” thing, depending on your trust level in the Holy Spirit. Because sometimes the pride has to be build up before it can be transformed through situations and open heart/mind into humility – and can be pretty harsh feeling when it comes down.

The big gap I see is you are not mentioning things that actually put you into experiential union with Jesus. Apophatic practices in general, which the Church has become very weak on especially since the days of the Reformation where it all became about who was right as opposed to how to do the work of Jesus, have been lost in mainstream Catholicism but luckily have survived the centuries in the monasteries and cloisters and are starting to become available for everyone, since Vatican II when it was affirmed that holiness is for everyone, not just the religious.

Living healthy doesn’t necessarily mean you study medical texts and start being everyone’s doctor. Just the same I see people picking up bits and pieces of scripture and Catholic documentation and testing it out to learn but also using them as weapons of dispute. I know this because I was very good at that myself and honestly still do have that pride issue but for the contemplative practices (and even inter-religious dialog) that has helped me learn to accept the kingdom as it is, rather than as I think it should be.

So be wary of when you see everyone else but you, sinning. I got to take a course by Fr. Robert Barron in the Seven Deadly Sins, and it was funny how the sins were ordered, using a model by something called “Dante’s Divine Comedy” and “Mount Purgatorio”. Pride is at the base of the mountain, and underlies all the other sinful tendencies. It seems kind of ironic that when you hear people accusing others of sin, it’s almost always going to be either sins of “excessive love” (greed, gluttony and lust) or “deficient love” (sloth) but it’s so often coming from a position of presumed superiority or other “perverted love” type sins, the base of which is pride, and also includes anger and envy. It’s easy to see gosh why do they get to sin and I don’t, or maybe it’s hard to find that dynamic within yourself because it’s deeply buried and is why Jesus told parables to try to “stick it to” those who were stuck in a story.

For example in story after story, Jesus is featured shaming the “wise” and the proud by comparing them unfavorably to the tax collectors and sexual sinners. So if you fill your head with knowledge about sin and see “others sinning” then you may be experiencing this same dynamic. The veil of presumed knowledge (see 1 Cor 13 for a smack-down on knowledge being tantamount to love) hides us from our own pride.

Also, contrary to what others may say, you cannot see “sin” per se in others, as a human. You can see behavior that you fancy would be sinful if you did it, but you cannot judge their hearts – maybe make a pretty good guess but not presume to know except through empathy and a similar cognitive process that empathizes with it. Jesus said “forgive them Father for they know not what they do” which gives us a clue – if Jesus says they don’t know what they do to people who are in the process of viciously torturing and killing Him for absolutely no sin at all, then who are we to presume that “you clearly knew better so therefore it is a sin?”

Jesus tells us not to judge, but I have a hard time finding four or five Catholics in one place who will even entertain taking our Lord seriously – because we have been trained by western culture and attitudes, the same exact ones that were in place when Jesus was on earth, to be judgmental and individualistic.

So for one thing, I’d suggest turning your study into some of the more “mystical” saints that give us a different flavor than our Thomistic world view. Like St. John of the Cross, and St. Teresa of Avila. Read the first few paragraphs of “Dark Night of the Soul” and see just how tricky pride can behave and pretend it’s not pride at all.

Get into some practices that will let you “rest in God” by opening your heart and mind, and giving them a vacation from calculating and worry so they can allow the Holy Spirit to act. When your head is not thinking with attention to a constant stream of information, it can be open to the action of the Holy Spirit. The most common thing is contemplative prayer, which Catholics are told in the CCC (2708) that prayer life SHOULD include because it brings us into actual union with Jesus’s prayer. But it isn’t nearly common enough IMO, which is why I promote it. That doesn’t necessarily fix everything, but it can be a key to opening up new pathways toward holiness that not amount of scholarly study could bring to us and in fact can build our pride which, being of perverted love, keeps us from being united with each other or with Jesus.

I am one of others who truly needed to hear this today. Blessings!

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Thank you for the advice, I believe it is good advice, however not necessarily applicable to me. Perhaps my post gave the impression that I am a totally scholarly Christian, but I am not. I already read about the saints, believe in miracles, use contemplative prayer, pray to our Lord from my heart, mind and soul and join with Him in the Eucharist. And I am not prideful that I’ve seen the light, I am grateful that I did and sorrowful that it took me so long and more cognizant of how easily we all can fall back into the darkness.

It sounds like you are in pretty good shape, and do not need to benefit from my ideas. I am glad that you are doing so well and feel so confident about your spirituality.

But if the only “light” you see is now much other people sin, that makes me wonder a bit how your own light is to shine if nobody worthy is available to see it.

What I have also noticed, sometimes shockingly, is how I am now more keenly aware of waywardness, corruption, and wickedness than I ever have been in the past. Sometimes, it is almost overwhelming and I wonder “why” I was so numb to it before?

Since you are satisfied with, if not complacent about or even “stuck in” the way you look at things, I suspect this will continue for you. You may feel like a stranger in a corrupt world, surrounded by sinners who haven’t the same regard for God and His teachings that you do. If this is OK for you, then go ahead as you were because it sounds like you have contact with all the vocabulary words I had to offer and have an answer for them.

When you are ready to open yourself and your attitude to the transformation the way you think about your faith and your part in it and the sins of others, you may be ready to see a world that doesn’t stink the way it does now. If you want scholarly debate as to how to not be bothered by other people’s sins, without transformation of your own mind and heart, things will likely not change for you, Maybe you will continue feeling morally superior from those around you, and intellectually insulated from seeing any part you may have in it. Maybe that is your calling at this time, so who am I to take that away? If you are looking for affirmation or congratulations about your righteousness, or if you are looking for others to join in your viewpoint and a way to live in a world free from having to ponder the relative sinfulness of others compared to your “new way” of seeing things, then that is not something I have to offer at this time. Because those would just affirm the pride that shows through your writing. We all have that pride and need help seeking and dealing with it; when you are ready the teacher will appear – because when you are ready, you will find that Teacher has been there the whole time.

Keep up the good work in contemplation, and my prayers are with you.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Here is one way to handle sinful people, in this dramatic interpretation of a biblical story:

The Bible - The Pharisee and The Tax Collector

Loving sinners unconditionally and seeing their spiritual strength compared to the “presumed righteous” didn’t buy Jesus any points among the presumed righteous. Another reason they must have wanted to put Him to death.

The sinners had no ego at stake in Truth being told, that could make them feel worse than they already did at some level. They felt the separation of being outcasts, like the lepers and the blind and others afflicted and presumed to be sinful. They knew rejection and being put down. They could say anything at all and the presumed righteous will not be marred because they have a power structure that protects them. Until Jesus comes and messes that system up – a bit reminiscent of Pope Francis.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Here’s another story to shed some light on how to deal with “those less honorable” than us:

1 Cor 12:22-25
Indeed, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are all the more necessary, and those parts of the body that we consider less honorable we surround with greater honor, and our less presentable parts are treated with greater propriety, whereas our more presentable parts do not need this. But God has so constructed the body as to give greater honor to a part that is without it, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same concern for one another. If [one] part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy.

The common theme here, is that if you are upset because you see others sinning, then you are the one who has the opportunity to grow in love to get out of that mode.

Quit looking down at them and saying, “well I can see they are sinners so how do I not be bothered by them,” and voila! It will cease being true – both that you can ‘see’ how they, compared to you, are sinners, and that you will no longer be “bothered” by them.

Elevate yourself above them, and make up rhetorical structures to justify why they are objectively at fault and you are right – oh and yes we know you were once like that but aren’t anymore so you believe you fully “understand” even though they disgust you – and you will continue live in the condition you so aptly described in the OP:

Now, I am saddened, repulsed and I don’t want to see or hear it. It isn’t entertaining anymore, it isn’t worthwhile of my notice anymore. Now I see it all as just the mindless ruminations of profane human beings who have decided to embrace their animistic instincts and are blind to all that is holy and divine. And now I just pray for them, strive to love them, and hope that one day they get tired of being in the dark , too.

You might do better to pray that they love you, because if you have to “strive” to love them, then in fact you are harboring hate and fighting against yourself and using your own words as protection to keep the Truth from interfering with your New Station.

By the way, it’s a good thing you weren’t there to hang around Jesus of Nazareth, because you would have been “saddened and repulsed” by the types of people Jesus hung around with, and they aren’t worth your notice. Those who befriend Jesus “aren’t entertaining anymore” to You, the one who has Seen the Light.

They are worth the love and kindness and even the company of Jesus, but not even worth Your Notice? Do you not see the construct you’ve built for yourself? This is what I’m trying to tell you in love; please forgive me if I’m too emphatic because I have pride in this too along with a sincere desire to help the situation you asked for help with.

Learning to avoid sin is good. If that goes to your head and it becomes pride, then it may result in a worse condition than even before.

And now I ask for your prayers and forgiveness, as I have judged you.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Sometimes evil is .palpable. I see it in many ways. I hurt when I become aware of the terrible things that happen. I am not judging anyone, but the awakening is sometimes violent.

Sometimes evil drives me to tears. The worse is when I realize that I have done some of this evil at times in the past. The thoughtless word, the uncharitable thoughts, the unwillingness to be kind comes back to me.

In thinking someone else is not smart or whatever, it falls back on me. So in awakening to the evil around us, it is important to recognize it in ourselves as well.

This is so true for me too. Good thing as Jesus pointed out, that God sends his rain and resources to both he just and the unjust.

Thank you mystical seeker for a wonderful read. And to the op here is a quote I like I got from someone on another forum(not catholic or Christian). The person’s screen name is Persephone.
“Becoming conscious of being unconscious is difficult work, and it’s not always perfect work. It is, however, very important work.”
When we are acting out as the world/culture expects us to on a regular basis we are blind as you mentioned or unconscious. Once we begin to develop a spiritual practice and deepen in it we begin to become conscious we begin to awaken and are extra sensitive to all that is around us good and bad. Sometimes for me anyhow I focus more on the bad or unskillful behavior of others-but then after a while I remember to look in the mirror or pull the log out of my eye. That “after a while” can be quite some time-for me anyway. Blessings to all.

That is true too. And once I think I become conscious, I break out into an even bigger and stronger prison I didn’t know was between my original prison and “freedom”.

I giggle now, but only after 14 years of “severe psychosis” and all the benefits associated therewith.

Just … as they say … “keeping it real” right? Hahaha and in ten minutes I will look back and hate the past “me” who posted this. If I’m lucky. If I’m not, it will be beyond the 20 minute period to edit or delete!

I’d be pathetic if I still took ‘myself’ seriously, right? Oh wait – I do! :bigyikes:

 

[Rosarydevotion]

Mystical seeker, you may also want to consider your own pride.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Mystical seeker, you may also want to consider your own pride.

Your are right. It’s pretty evident that ego is a major factor when people are trying to share stories proving that this is the answer, this will help, my story is better than yours, etc.

So yes, I should consider my own pride. I may cover it but my sense of grandiosity has been such at times that these words are trivial. I take pride even in how much pride I have – so how awful is that? Surely Paul had “nothing on me” in Rom 7.

So yes, you touched an accurate truth there – ego and pride. And as they say, “takes one to know one” so we are each others’ Best Mirrors. That’s why to love enemy – they may reflect something truthful that a “friend” or “someone trying to help” may distort. Or one reason. So who can really be an “enemy” if love is true power? Can one honestly say to any other “I don’t need you in my world”?

Yeah, my pride. I have enough pride to go around for everyone, so I appreciate the prayers and concern, and if you’re ever running short in your “pride reserves” now you know where to find some. :tiphat:

MS

Edit: for more information on pride, I recommend the Dark Night of the Soul – just the first few paragraphs help explain why it’s so hard to tease out real humility from false humility – or maybe we don’t have to?

– this message brought to you “with pride” from the MS avatar.

 

[Peregrinans]

Ok now I am really sorry I made my original post. It was meant to express how I had become so numb to sin in the past that when I did reconnect my life to God and saw the light that I also became aware of my prior acceptance of sin and grew in my desire to avoid it. I really didn’t expect responses that stated that I was prideful, that I shouldn’t judge, that I need to read about more mystical saints, that it is lucky that I didn’t hang around with Jesus, that I don´t let anyone see my light because I am too busy judging others.

I’m just confused, I guess. So I should continue to find enjoyment in watching and being entertained by obvious sinful behavior, because I don´t know what’s in the hearts of those exhibiting said behavior? I was under the impression that we are to avoid being tempted by sinful behavior. “…and lead us not into temptation…” And the best way would be to not to expose yourself, and your mind, to evil. Jesus said that if a man looks at a woman with lust he has committed adultery in his heart. So thoughts do matter. So how can I continue to look at sinful behavior and not have it affect me negatively?

It would be like if I was trying to lose weight, I probably should not watch the “Cake Boss” show. Watching it wouldn’t affect my weight, but seeing all the goodies might tempt me to go off my diet.

And I do “strive” to love the sinner, because I’m am far from perfect and acceptance and love doesn’t come immediately for me I have work at it. For others, I guess it’s automatic.

Also my words, in context,

“Now, I am saddened, repulsed and I don’t want to see or hear it. It isn’t entertaining anymore, it isn’t worthwhile of my notice anymore.”

I am speaking of sinful vulgar behavior celebrated, mostly in the media, that I used to just keep watching and not be affected.

But, thank you to all that responded. I will be sure not to share my observations about my spiritual growth again as I didn’t realize how off track I am. Sorry if I upset anyone.

 

[AttendeDomine]

Ok now I am really sorry I made my original post. It was meant to express how I had become so numb to sin in the past that when I did reconnect my life to God and saw the light that I also became aware of my prior acceptance of sin and grew in my desire to avoid it. I really didn’t expect responses that stated that I was prideful, that I shouldn’t judge, that I need to read about more mystical saints, that it is lucky that I didn’t hang around with Jesus, that I don´t let anyone see my light because I am too busy judging others.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think there was anything at all wrong with your post. In fact, I quite agree with your reaction to some of the responses you’ve been offered thus far.

Let’s keep in mind that “not being judgmental” of others can, if not tempered, lead to a desensitizing of what is or isn’t sinful behavior in the first place. A synonym for being judgmental, from a Catholic perspective, is offering condemnation of others, as far as damning them to hell is concerned. But we must discern! **And we must admit when actions are objectively offensive to God. ** We have knowledge of the objective moral order, after all.

Let’s also keep in mind that one person’s form of spirituality isn’t necessarily the form of spirituality every other Catholic should embrace.

There’s lots of perfectly valid spiritualities, and there is not a single Saint that absolutely everyone must follow in order to be sanctified, or else all is lost. Furthermore, I think it prudent to not project our own weaknesses and near occasions of sin upon others. Maybe a person is tempted to be arrogant and prideful by knowing certain things. Okay, well that’s their cross, and that’s a fault of their own temperament. It may not be yours, and their temperament might not be the one that you have.

Moreover, I congratulate you and thank God for helping you to realize how sinful our culture is. I think that this realization is not in any way ill-founded and, so long as you don’t go around looking down on others, it is absolutely an essential realization insofar as existing in our culture is concerned.

Moreover, this notion about “knowledge puffing up” is one which St. Francis might have one approach to deal with, and St. Dominic yet another. There’s more than one way to skin a prideful cat.

Lastly, I offer you the words of St. John Chrysostom on this “knowledge puffing up” verse from 1 Corinthians 8:

Have love: that way your knowledge will not lead you astray. I should like your knowledge to outstrip that of your brethren. If you love them, far from being aloof and looking down on them, you will strive to have them share your insights" (Hom. on 1 Cor, 20, ad loc.). [Found on page 234 of http://www.amazon.com/The-Navarre-Bible-Letters-Testament/dp/1594170371”]this book

.]

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

But, thank you to all that responded. I will be sure not to share my observations about my spiritual growth again as I didn’t realize how off track I am. Sorry if I upset anyone.

Don’t hide them on my account. Nobody seems to be upset, as far as I can tell, unless it’s you. If you don’t want your pride exposed, then don’t espouse it in such a stereotypical way and then ask for feedback.

It is only “natural” for us to be upset and indignant, because others have taught us to be that way and for us to be upset because of the sins of other people. This is the working of the worldly mind, and is the opposite of what Jesus taught. And those who held them to be “above sin” are the ones He had the most harsh words for. This is fact, and you can read the Gospels for yourself and verify it; this is not “popular opinion” which is led by the media as we all ooo and ahhh through the antics of the Pope and the Kardashians, depending on the day, and emote along with the “prescribed feelings” of the group we identify with?

What did you want to hear? That you should be offended and outraged and indignant? And Jesus thinks you should respond to others’ sin by going around saying “harumph” and “get out of my view”? If that’s what you want to hear then you may restrict opinions to ones that support a specified world view you intend to hold.

Prov 19:11
It is good sense to be slow to anger, and an honor to overlook an offense.

Or I may be totally wrong.

Or kidding.

Or not. :nope:

You may take it as you need.

 

[Rosarydevotion]

Your are right. It’s pretty evident that ego is a major factor when people are trying to share stories proving that this is the answer, this will help, my story is better than yours, etc.

So yes, I should consider my own pride. I may cover it but my sense of grandiosity has been such at times that these words are trivial. I take pride even in how much pride I have – so how awful is that? Surely Paul had “nothing on me” in Rom 7.

So yes, you touched an accurate truth there – ego and pride. And as they say, “takes one to know one” so we are each others’ Best Mirrors. That’s why to love enemy – they may reflect something truthful that a “friend” or “someone trying to help” may distort. Or one reason. So who can really be an “enemy” if love is true power? Can one honestly say to any other “I don’t need you in my world”?

Yeah, my pride. I have enough pride to go around for everyone, so I appreciate the prayers and concern, and if you’re ever running short in your “pride reserves” now you know where to find some. :tiphat:

MS

Edit: for more information on pride, I recommend the Dark Night of the Soul – just the first few paragraphs help explain why it’s so hard to tease out real humility from false humility – or maybe we don’t have to?

– this message brought to you “with pride” from the MS avatar.

Well MS, I’d say your in good company. I have trouble rooting out pride in myself too, join the human race I guess.

Op, don’t feel bad about your feelings, because they are true. Our culture is corrupt and it doesn’t even know how corrupt it is. I feel as you do, I see the evil and I do what I can to stay away from it. Kind of like being in this world but not of it. Hang out with other good Catholics and do your best to limit your time with anyone who would tempt you to sin. Its human nature to get influenced by other people so best to spend your time with people who help strengthen you faith and not weaken it in any way. God bless.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Well MS, I’d say your in good company. I have trouble rooting out pride in myself too, join the human race I guess.

Op, don’t feel bad about your feelings, because they are true. Our culture is corrupt and it doesn’t even know how corrupt it is. I feel as you do, I see the evil and I do what I can to stay away from it. Kind of like being in this world but not of it. Hang out with other good Catholics and do your best to limit your time with anyone who would tempt you to sin. Its human nature to get influenced by other people so best to spend your time with people who help strengthen you faith and not weaken it in any way. God bless.

Thank you for saying in a kind way, what I was having trouble doing.

MS