Observations on the SSPX

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Danquayle76 said:
We live in a world that revels in immodesty. Lets be generous toward those that try to be modest. There are many traditionalist women who manage to avoid pants and still remain fashionable.

Note: I don’t have a problem with a woman in pants, but I also don’t have a problem with a woman in a dress.
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I think it really depends on the pants and the skirt/dress. Some skirts (such as miniskirts, which, apart from club wear, are commonly used in women’s business attire) are obviously less modest than pants, some jeans are particularly designed to accentuate certain areas.

But either way, there’s nothing wrong with being a country girl in a homemade dress!
 
MarkThompson said:
Well, the girl, no. But what, you don’t think that dude looks guidoish enough for NYC with his black-on-black shirt/suit combo, slicked-back hair, and tie clip? He looks like he just popped out of the Holland Tunnel from Jersey.
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LOL. The guy is passable.
 
Warrenton said:
I read your paper with interest. To the extent you argue that Williamson’s ideology is not Catholic, I agreed. To the extent you argued that distributism, or the Catholic land movement is not Catholic, I disagreed.

It is hardly surprising that non-Catholics take up non-Catholic positions; indeed, it has strikes me as peculiarly “modern” that people seem shocked when their opponents actually oppose them. Perhaps, in a post-religious, or post agricultural, society, “conspiracy” seems to explain what strikes them as alarming: that someone else thinks differently.

Any old group is easy to paint as a conspiracy, for the plain reason that it has been around long enough for a series of things to coincide. One supposes that The Church of What’s Happening Now could be a conspiracy, it just would not be a particularly involved one.

For those who prefer rural life, the preference is less a retreat from a conspiracy, but more a return to greater autonomy and freedom. The farm also operates on the principles of common sense, which is a gladsome relief from what prevails in many contemporary industries, including law.

However, one imagines that there are those who will perceive a conspiracy even in this.

Cheers!
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We might not really disagree. The back to the land movement or some Distributist ideas are not in themselves anti-Catholic. However, these things are used by the fascist minded, like Bishop Williamson and his followers, for an anti-Catholic end. Economics, methods of farming or human tradition (not to be confused with Holy or Catholic Tradition) are human creations and can either be good, bad or indifferent. These things become bad when they are used in a fascist political movement or when they are placed on an equal footing with Catholic Tradition and the faith. There are some Distributists who cannot accept that their economic ideas, many of which I agree with, are merely their own opinions. Many try to act as if Distributism is de fide. (For instance, some Distributists cannot distinguish between Rerum Novarum, a Catholic encyclical that is part of Catholic teaching, and Chesterton and Belloc, who are masters of literature but not authorities on Catholic doctrine and economics.)
 
laszlo said:
What kind of legal authority of a German court has over a British subject?
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Bishop Williamson was in Germany when he was speaking.
On the other hand, he wasn’t speaking publicly. He was speaking to a journalist in a private setting.
On the other hand, he was speaking before a camera.
 
Will_S said:
Bishop Williamson was in Germany when he was speaking.
On the other hand, he wasn’t speaking publicly. He was speaking to a journalist in a private setting.
On the other hand, he was speaking before a camera.
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The camera was public or private?

The full case bring up my memories of the so called conceived sentences (the sentence was fixed before even the arrest or hearing of the accused).
 
laszlo said:
The camera was public or private?
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He was being interviewed for broadcast on Swedish television.
The full case bring up my memories of the so called conceived sentences (the sentence was fixed before even the arrest or hearing of the accused).
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Long before the Williamson case ever came about, the SSPX has been widely hated in Germany, so no doubt the German authorities were overjoyed at the opportunity to prosecute Bishop Williamson and cast the SSPX as a whole in a bad light.
 
Danquayle76 said:
Bishop Williamson is a convicted Holocaust denier…

wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/sspx-bp-williamson-convicted-by-german-court-for-holocaust-denial/
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Yes, certain countries have silly laws like that. But what does criticism of the details of certain historical events have to do with being antisemetic? Antisemitism is racism against Jews. Bp. Williamson is not racist, he does not hate the Jewish race.

On the other hand, if “antisemitism” is commonly understood to be “disagreement or criticism of any issue supported by Jewish civil rights groups”, that’s another story. But liberals are always quick to cry “racist”, “antisemetic”, “sexist”, even “Nazi” – all slurs used or implied by this attack piece on the good bishop.
 
Will_S said:
He was being interviewed for broadcast on Swedish television.

Long before the Williamson case ever came about, the SSPX has been widely hated in Germany, so no doubt the German authorities were overjoyed at the opportunity to prosecute Bishop Williamson and cast the SSPX as a whole in a bad light.
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Yes, the whole reason it was released was because of the lifting of the “excommunications”, as a way for the media to distort, attack and jab at the SSPX. The same issue happened with the Motu Proprio and the Jews complaining that we were praying for their conversion (shock horror).
 
VivaCristoRey27 said:
Yes, certain countries have silly laws like that. But what does criticism of the details of certain historical events have to do with being antisemetic? Antisemitism is racism against Jews. Bp. Williamson is not racist, he does not hate the Jewish race.

On the other hand, if “antisemitism” is commonly understood to be “disagreement or criticism of any issue supported by Jewish civil rights groups”, that’s another story. But liberals are always quick to cry “racist”, “antisemetic”, “sexist”, even “Nazi” – all slurs used or implied by this attack piece on the good bishop.
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Behold the wit and wisdom of the good – nay, his excellency – "+"Williamson:

[T]he politicians are virtually controlled by public opinion, which is fabricated by the media, which are tightly controlled by a handful of Judeo-masons, the people who also control finance and the governments.

Just as the chief priests and ancients hated Jesus unto death, but they needed an Apostle to betray him, so we may blame Jews and Freemasons and others like them for engineering the destruction of the Church . . . .

By lies, Judeo-Masonry is preparing for the Third World War. As the Depression of the 1930’s necessitated WWII, triggered for the US by the supposed treachery of the Japanese at Pearl Harbor, so we see all the conditions created for another much worse Depression in the US, with the supposed treachery of Arabs last year against the Twin Towers in New York already igniting American public opinion to go to war against Afghanistan and now Iraq. And as we now in 2002 know with certainty that our governments and media told us far from the complete truth in 1941 as to who was truly responsible for the attack on Pearl Harbor, so we will eventually know that those truly responsible for the attack on the Twin Towers were certainly not those primarily held up as being responsible by our governments and media.

When Spanish Catholics were slack in the 700’s, God allowed the Jews to betray Spain to the Arabs. . . . The Jews are a similar case. As early as 200 the Church author Tertullian remarked that as Catholic faith goes up, so Jewish power goes down, while as Catholic faith goes down, so Jewish power goes up. In the Catholic Middle Ages the Jews were relatively impotent to harm Christendom, but as Catholics have grown over the centuries since then weaker and weaker in the faith, especially since Vatican II, so the Jews have come closer and closer to fulfilling their substitute-Messianic drive towards world dominion.

[T]he Inquisition rendered extraordinary service to Western civilization (then called Christendom) by picking out those heretics who were its worst enemies. . . . And the condemnations of the Synagogue, which is the religion not of Abraham and Moses, but of Anas and Caiphas, have been elementary self-defence on the part of the Catholic Church, because the spiritual descendants of those two judicial murderers of Jesus Christ have for 2,000 years been continuing their work of hatred against the Mystical Body of Christ, the Catholic Church.

DER SPIEGEL: Your position on Judaism is consistently anti-Semitic.
WILLIAMSON: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel.

He does seem to be quite well-liked on Stormfront.org, though. “If Europe had remained entirely Catholic, there’d be more Whites around today.” Onward march, you Stormfront neo-Nazis! “He spoke the unspeakable truth”! “They will torture Bishop Williamson until the day he dies in an attempt to force him into kissing the pentagram of holocaustianity. Another pound of flesh extracted.”
 
MarkThompson said:
He does seem to be quite well-liked on Stormfront.org, though. “If Europe had remained entirely Catholic, there’d be more Whites around today.” Onward march, you Stormfront neo-Nazis! “He spoke the unspeakable truth”! “They will torture Bishop Williamson until the day he dies in an attempt to force him into kissing the pentagram of holocaustianity. Another pound of flesh extracted.”
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Association Fallacy
 
MarkThompson: Which of those quotes expresses antisemitism?
 
Chatter163 said:
The point about the cost of land is probably a contributing factor, as is the fact that it is probably easier for the SSPX to appeal to its target population in more rural areas, than it is in large cities. Liberalism is generally found in greater concentrations in metropolitan areas, and less so in rural areas. That, of course, is not an iron-clad rule, but it tends to be true more often than not.

That said, a review of their website does include listings of chapels in many metro areas, including Atlanta (Roswell is a suburb), Phoenix, Los Angeles, Denver, the Miami-Fort Lauderdale–West Palm Beach corridor, Orlando, Chicago, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Boston, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Kansas City, Las Vegas, New York City, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Portland, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Houston, Seattle and Milwaukee. In other words, approximately half of all SSPX venues in the USA are in large cities.
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Can’t speak for the others but the chapel in Portland is actually in Garden Home, which is a suburban area between Portland and Beaverton.
The chapels in Las Vegas and especially Phoenix were well out into the sticks at the time of their acquisition by SSPX.
 
MarkThompson said:
Noscitur a sociis.
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No, it’s up there with “Hitler was a vegetarian” statements.
I’ve got to assume you are kidding
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Not kidding at all.

Is antisemitism racism against Jewish people or opposition to the actions and ideologies of certain self-appointed Jewish “leaders” or criticism of the Talmudic Neo-Judaic religion? Williamson is no racist and nothing you quoted was racist. But again, “antisemitism”, “racism”, “sexism”, etc. just means, in popular language, “opposition to the liberal worldview” and the actual definitions of these words become almost irrelevant.

Again, I call Godwin’s Law.
Der Spiegel:
Williamson: Anti-Semitism means many things today, for instance, when one criticizes the Israeli actions in the Gaza Strip. The Church has always understood the definition of anti-Semitism to be the rejection of Jews because of their Jewish roots. This is condemned by the Church. Incidentally, this is self-evident in a religion whose founders and all important individuals in its early history were Jews. But it was also clear, because of the large number of Jewish Christians in early Christianity, that all men need Christ for their salvation – all men, including the Jews.
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VivaCristoRey27 said:
Williamson is no racist and nothing you quoted was racist. But again, “antisemitism”, “racism”, “sexism”, etc. just means, in popular language, “opposition to the liberal worldview” and the actual definitions of these words become almost irrelevant.

Again, I call Godwin’s Law.
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I believe that you and Pope Benedict disagree. In an interview, the Holy Father had this to say about Bishop Williamson,

**If I had known, the first step would have been to separate the Williamson case from the others. Unfortunately, though, none of us went on the Internet to find out what kind of person we were dealing with.

I would never introduce an anti-Semite into polite society.

Williamson is an atypical case in that he was, when you think about, never Catholic in the proper sense. He was an Anglican and then went over directly to Lefebvre. This means that he never lived in the great Church, that he has never lived with the Pope.**

Light of The World pp 21-24

In an independent interview, the spokesman for the Holy See confirmed that the Holy Father had indeed made this statement and stood by it.

In another interview he was asked another question about Bishop Williamson. The Holy Father answered, "He’s a very difficult man."

My take is that if the Holy Father, who has gone out to bat for the SSPX and taken some criticism for it, has such serious reservations about Bishop Williamson, there is something about which to be concerned. Pope Benedict has never been antagonistic toward the SSPX. He’s been tough on them, but not antagonisitc.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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