Obtaining God's Forgiveness

[Gadgeteer]

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…it’s that Roman-Greco god’s thing… they do evil and create evil at whim.

…which laughs at Jesus face:

…if it’s all status quo, how ignoramus does that make Jesus–celebrating, in Heaven, what cannot be?

'Zactly. Why kill the fatted calf for a repenting son, if that repentance (and even his apostasy!) was all ordained? :banghead:

(Don’t it hafta make sense???)

You’re right, Jesus said so many things (if Reformed Theology be true) which expose Himself as really, really daft! Matt11:28-30 for instance…

…ego plays a part in this… it’s the old “I’m right; you’re wrong; do not attempt to confuse me with facts!”

I’m thinkin’ it’s more ego with RT’s; JW’s operate more from fear. They know well they aren’t supposed to argue with “outsiders”, persuasion is what got them into the cult, they fear persuasion that could lead out of it…

I never knew that they held “salvation through works.”

In my book I cite from the JW website where they say “it’s not works”; but then I cite ANOTHER source that says “salvation is by believing and by DOING things”. All religions are about “doing good deeds” and “Jesus isn’t God”; Christianity is different on these two founding points…

This is why snapshot Scriptural exegesis doesn’t work; we must take all of Scriptures into account… and we must consider the context as well… did Judaism believe that idol gods were anything? Why would they attempt to kill Christ because He would equate Himself with a god? Judaism is monotheistic… this means that the Jews that wanted to stone Jesus thought the He was Equating Himself to the One True Living God! It takes ignorance and contortionism (and perhaps a hidden evil) to make the Word of God speak nonsense!

Exactly right; making Himself out to be a “false god”, is nbd. Certainly not blasphemy. That’s the clearest indisputable example of “wrong rewriting” I’ve come up with. (Anyone have anything else???)

Of course it’s evil; all religions are inventions to keep men away from God; we know which “biggest-liar” invented them…

I love that passage (Jn5:39-47), well done. It’s the counter for Jn6:45 “he who studies AND LEARNS comes to God”, while previous chapter they study but WILL NOT come to God to have life.

Anyone can study; but each chooses to learn or not…

Yes! There’s so much in these verses… Jesus is chastising Israel for not Believing the Word of God; in essence, Jesus is accusing them of not Knowing God!

I missed a connection! Everyone please consider:

1. Since childhood we have known the sacred Scriptures which are able to give wisdom that leads to eternal life, 1Tim3:15.
2. Jn6:45 “he who studies AND LEARNS, comes to God”
3. Jn5:39-47 “you study Scriptures …but are UNWILLING to believe and come to Jesus!”

Wait – wisdom leads to eternal life? Unwilling to believe that they may have life? We can study and gain wisdom leading to salvation, or study and refuse wisdom’s lead? Why does Reformed Theology even exist? I dunno!!!

…and while He agrees that we can find a source of Life in Scriptures, He adamantly insists that He is the Source of Life to which Scriptures are pointing towards… it is not enough to search/study Scriptures; we must, humbly, allow the Holy Spirit to Guide us to the Truth: Jesus!

But why won’t they accept this? Jesus said:
“You do not love God.”
“You don’t seek God’s glory, but seek each OTHER’S glory.”
“You won’t even believe Moses, so how can you believe Me?!”

As you and I and others have discussed, it’s all “ego” and love of sin. They glory in themselves and their evil deeds, and don’t want His purity and love. And they haven’t even considered buying FIRE insurance!

(…uhm, actually, I guess what WE have is the ultimate fire insurance; assurance of NOT!)

 

[jcrichton]

'Zactly. Why kill the fatted calf for a repenting son, if that repentance (and even his apostasy!) was all ordained? :banghead:

(Don’t it hafta make sense???)

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…what? …it has to make sense? …can’t we just pick and choose or put it to a vote or something?

…it’s difficult to argue with Him Who said:

11 so the word that goes from my mouth does not return to me empty, without carrying out my will and succeeding in what it was sent to do.

(Isaiah 55:11)
No matter how much contortion… no matter how much editing… man cannot change the Word of God!:

32 I take no pleasure in the death of anyone – it is the Lord Yahweh who speaks. Repent and live

! (Ezekiel 18:30-32)

In my book I cite from the JW website where they say “it’s not works”; but then I cite ANOTHER source that says “salvation is by believing and by DOING things”. All religions are about “doing good deeds” and “Jesus isn’t God”; Christianity is different on these two founding points…

I understand that their earliest version held that Christ was in deed God; have you tracked these sources?

Exactly right; making Himself out to be a “false god”, is nbd. Certainly not blasphemy. That’s the clearest indisputable example of “wrong rewriting” I’ve come up with. (Anyone have anything else???)

…heard of the one about Jesus having a body so He is not God because God does not have a body? (yeah, that’s one of those “proofs”)

Of course it’s evil; all religions are inventions to keep men away from God; we know which “biggest-liar” invented them…

…no I meant that they are not aware that they are being used by Satan.

I missed a connection! Everyone please consider:

1. Since childhood we have known the sacred Scriptures which are able to give wisdom that leads to eternal life, 1Tim3:15.

1. Jn6:45 “he who studies AND LEARNS, comes to God”

1. Jn5:39-47 “you study Scriptures …but are UNWILLING to believe and come to Jesus!”

Wait – wisdom leads to eternal life? Unwilling to believe that they may have life? We can study and gain wisdom leading to salvation, or study and refuse

wisdom’s lead? Why does Reformed Theology even exist? I dunno!!!

But why won’t they accept this? Jesus said:
“You do not love God.”
“You don’t seek God’s glory, but seek each OTHER’S glory.”
“You won’t even believe Moses, so how can you believe Me?!”
The problem is that value is displaced… have you noticed how many would quote:

63 ‘It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh has nothing to offer. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

(St. John 6:63)
…these swear that the Sacred Scriptures are Spirit and Life… yet, they miss the passage’s meaning: Jesus’ Words are Spirit and Life… these words would not be put into text till a decade or so after His Ascension… Jesus is the Source of Life… the Written Words lead us to Jesus’ the Resurrection and the Life… RT and others seem content to hold the Word (Scriptures) as while ignoring the Source: “Abide in Me, for without Me you can do nothing!” (paraphrased)

As you and I and others have discussed, it’s all “ego” and love of sin. They glory in themselves and their evil deeds, and don’t want His purity and love. And they haven’t even considered buying FIRE insurance!

(…uhm, actually, I guess what WE have is the ultimate fire insurance; assurance of NOT!)
Wait… what? …now you hafta buy it! …well, there goes the neighborhood… yet another place I can’t afford! :crying::crying::crying: …better stuck up on the marshmallows.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Gadgeteer]

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…what? …it has to make sense? …can’t we just pick and choose or put it to a vote or something?

“Pick-and-choose” like smorgasbord religions? Pick what we want from many religions, and kluge-together a paper-mache belief-mosaic that feels soft and comfy.

"I don’t believe in God, but I’m very spiritual."

As if. And then one day they face God directly, and what’ll they say???

:bigyikes:

…it’s difficult to argue with Him Who said:

No matter how much contortion… no matter how much editing… man cannot change the Word of God!:

They’ll try. There are two engines that drive the changes; men who love sin, and evil spirits seeking to deceive men away from God.

“The Spirit explicitly tells me that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons…”

I understand that their earliest version held that Christ was in deed God; have you tracked these sources?

I have not!!! Where would I find them?

…heard of the one about Jesus having a body so He is not God because God does not have a body? (yeah, that’s one of those “proofs”)

There’s plenty about Jesus both being divine and flesh; Philip2:5-8 comes to mind…

…no I meant that they are not aware that they are being used by satan.

Well, obviously it’s counter-productive to tell them that. Prove by Scripture that salvation is not by works, and that Jesus is God; then they will figure out for themselves who is behind whatever is false…

The problem is that value is displaced… have you noticed how many would quote:

…these swear that the Sacred Scriptures are Spirit and Life… yet, they miss the passage’s meaning: Jesus’ Words are Spirit and Life… these words would not be put into text till a decade or so after His Ascension… Jesus is the Source of Life… the Written Words lead us to Jesus’ the Resurrection and the Life… RT and others seem content to hold the Word (Scriptures) as while ignoring the Source: “Abide in Me, for without Me you can do nothing!” (paraphrased)

Source – you know about Rev3:14 and the WT perversion, “Jesus is the first-created-being”? (Same understanding of Col1:15…)

“Archē” does not mean “first-created”, it means origin/source. Col1:15 “firstborn” means rank or pre-eminence, AUTHORITY. Jacob/Esau, and Ephraim/Manasseh, the second-born became the firstborn (and Col1:18 “firstborn from the dead” also means authority even over death). See Col1:16-17, where WT has added “other” (all OTHER things were created, and apart from Him was nothing ELSE created).

When we know exactly what violence was done to the passages, and how to undeniably prove to them they have been violated, then we “exhort with sound doctrine and refute those who contradict”.

Wait… what? …now you hafta buy it! …well, there goes the neighborhood… yet another place I can’t afford! …better stock up on the marshmallows.

Ahhh, useless; afraid the fire will be too hot.

Malachi 4:3, even the mash-mooshers will be ashes!

 

[jcrichton]

“Pick-and-choose” like smorgasbord religions? Pick what we want from many religions, and kluge-together a paper-mache belief-mosaic that feels soft and comfy.

"I don’t believe in God, but I’m very spiritual."

As if. And then one day they face God directly, and what’ll they say???

:bigyikes:

Hi, Gadgeteer!

…yeah, that’s one of holllowood’s oldies goes along with the ‘a piece of paper means nothing, we love each other and that’s what counts.’ It is as though if we remove God from the Faith we will be saved by our own determinate means (isn’t that part of those Eastern/Indian beliefs where man can elevate himself?).

They’ll try. There are two engines that drive the changes; men who love sin, and evil spirits seeking to deceive men away from God.

“The Spirit explicitly tells me that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons…”

Yes! The whole chapter is fantastic… I specially like the closing exhortation:

16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

(1 Timothy 4:16)

I have not!!! Where would I find them?

There’s plenty about Jesus both being divine and flesh; Philip2:5-8 comes to mind…

Well, obviously it’s counter-productive to tell

them that. Prove by Scripture that salvation is not by works, and that Jesus is God; then they will figure out for themselves who is behind whatever is false…
…just got this one from the net; I had others but my comp got fried and lost them–I’m sure there are more out there:

Changed Teaching on Jesus

Russell taught that we should worship Jesus and the initial Watchtower Charter’s specified that establishment of the Watchtower Society was to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. Yet since the 1950’s, worshipping Jesus became regarded as wrongful idolatry. (jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php

)

Source – you know about Rev3:14 and the WT perversion, "Jesus is the first-created-being

"? (Same understanding of Col1:15…)

“Archē” does not mean “first-created”, it means origin/source. Col1:15 “firstborn” means rank or pre-eminence, AUTHORITY. Jacob/Esau, and Ephraim/Manasseh, the second-born became the firstborn (and Col1:18 “firstborn from the dead” also means authority even over death). See Col1:16-17, where WT has added “other” (all OTHER things were created, and apart from Him was nothing ELSE created).

When we know exactly what violence was done to the passages, and how to undeniably prove to them they have been violated, then we “exhort with sound doctrine and refute those who contradict”.
I’m not as gifted as you (language thing); so I stick to the Scriptures… and I allow for their interpretation… then I query, since Jesus is the First (first created), and, as He stated, He is also the Last (must also be accepted as the last created) then are we to understand that Jesus is the only created being and that nothing exists since He is the First and the Last?

:ehh::blushing::juggle::juggle: :takeoff:

Ahhh, useless; afraid the fire will be too hot.

Malachi 4:3, even the mash-mooshers will be ashes!

Wait, the fire is not to warm people up?

I know it’s kindna not so charitable to joke about such matters… but it confounds me how people downplay hell and God’s Justice.

Maran atha!

Angel