Occasional marijuana use?

[Thoughtfulone]

Repost

 

[kbwall]

Smoking marijuana is illegal and drinking is not, partially due to the fact that marijuana use (even in moderation) is worse than drinking (in moderation). It’s illegal for a reason.

Not really. Alcohol is actually more dangerous, as it impairs you more than marijuana does, and you can actually die of alcohol poisoning, something you can’t do with marijuana. The simple fact that you can kill yourself with alcohol overdosage, but can’t overdose on marijuana.

Our country was founded under God, as we are “One nation under God”. The laws that the government has established are just loose versions of the laws of God. Therefore, if it’s illegal (against the government), it’s most likely against God as well.

Most of the founding fathers were actually deists, not Christians. There’s also a bit in the Consitution that amounts to seperation of church and state. The idea that America was founded on Christianity is a myth. America’s laws are not based on Christianity’s, and if they were, they’d be very different. The line “under God” wasn’t even suggested to be in the pledge of alleigance until the late forties and wasn’t official until the fifties. That means there was over a hundred years of American history without that line.

Further, I should add that for a while, marijuana actually was legal in the country. Pretty much all drugs were. Not that I’m saying they should necessarily all become legal just because they were in the past, I’m simply pointing out another difference between man’s laws and God’s laws; man’s laws change, and God’s does not.

 

[davidv]

I do appreciate the prayers, but there is nothing intrinsically sinful about marijuana use, and responsible use in moderation is certainly not mortally sinful. All I said in my confession was that I have made poor decisions due to drinking and marijuana use (only when drinking heavily and smoking pot did I do these things, and these things that I did were not mortally sinful in and of themselves, just irresponsible).

My main concern was that almost everybody drinks too much at some point. For me to say that I’ll never do it again is unrealistic, so I have a problem with the RESOLVE aspect of the confession, I guess. I have never committed a mortal sin as a result of drinking or smoking marijuana or anything else, and I definitely ALWAYS know the difference between right and wrong.

I also do not believe that getting a little drunk or smoking a little pot is a mortal sin. Keep in mind that I tend to confess certain venial sins as well, so if I feel I’ve been over-doing it, I will mention it to the priest.

So I am supposed to resolve not to commit any more mortal sins, but I guess my question is this: If some members of the Church

It not just some members, it is the whole Church:

**2291 **The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

look at something as a mortal sin (such as pot smoking or getting a bit drunk) and I know that they teach this (or think I know it) but do not myself believe it and so have no firm resolve to never do it again, then does THAT invalidate my confession even though my belief that these things aren’t mortally sinful do not go against Church dogma?

Re: Bolded statement above. As long as marijuana use is illegal, this is a false statement. Disobeyeing a legimate authority is intrinsically wrong, and therefore sinful.
Multiple unrepented non-serious sins will lead to the weakening of the will, which will make it much easier to commit a mortal sin in the future.

Your argument that ‘everyone does it’ is fallacious and it is not valid to conclude that it not sinful (read wrong).

 

[PatriceA]

I do appreciate the prayers, but there is nothing intrinsically sinful about marijuana use, and responsible use in moderation is certainly not mortally sinful. All I said in my confession was that I have made poor decisions due to drinking and marijuana use (only when drinking heavily and smoking pot did I do these things, and these things that I did were not mortally sinful in and of themselves, just irresponsible).

My main concern was that almost everybody drinks too much at some point. For me to say that I’ll never do it again is unrealistic, so I have a problem with the RESOLVE aspect of the confession, I guess. I have never committed a mortal sin as a result of drinking or smoking marijuana or anything else, and I definitely ALWAYS know the difference between right and wrong.

I also do not believe that getting a little drunk or smoking a little pot is a mortal sin. Keep in mind that I tend to confess certain venial sins as well, so if I feel I’ve been over-doing it, I will mention it to the priest.

So I am supposed to resolve not to commit any more mortal sins, but I guess my question is this: If some members of the Church look at something as a mortal sin (such as pot smoking or getting a bit drunk) and I know that they teach this (or think I know it) but do not myself believe it and so have no firm resolve to never do it again, then does THAT invalidate my confession even though my belief that these things aren’t mortally sinful do not go against Church dogma?

I said it before, and I’ll say it again. You need to either go back to the priest that heard your confession and gave you the advice that you take with issue with as you described it in your OP and ask for more guidance. OR find a different priest to talk to. But either way, you must listen to the guidance THEY give you, not the opinions found on a forum. You will always find opinions both for and against an issue that is troubling you, but you need the guidance of a good spiritual director. Its not even the issue of smoking pot that should be the debate, its that you are trying to find a reason not to listen to the priest. Either you are not ready to change, or you out and out don’t have any faith in what the priest said, either way you’re looking for a loophole to disregard what he said. That is the most troubling of your situation.

 

[m134e5]

And “natural” doesn’t mean anything, as there are hundreds of substances, such as arsenic, mercury and upas sap, which are quite natural but have no place whatsoever in our human bodies.

There are receptor sites in the human brain for THC, a chemical found in the cannabis plant (and, as far as I know, it isn’t found anywhere else). These receptor sites have no other purpose than to receive THC- just as receptor sites for other chemicals in the brain have no other purpose than to receive those chemicals. I’m afraid you are mistaken here- cannabis (marijuana) *does *have a place (literally, in fact) in our bodies. Lumping “drugs” all into one moral category isn’t a good way to approach the issue as different drugs work in different ways. There’s a big difference between how alcohol causes its effect and how cannabis causes its effect. There’s a big difference between how heroin causes its effect and how LSD causes its effect. Some are always immoral because they directly harm the body or addiction develops too quickly to be able to use and enjoy without becoming addicted to them.

 

[Cecilianus]

davidv: What about sugar, caffeine, and alcohol, which are all drugs? Something tells me that the paragraph 2291 of the Catechism doesn’t forbid a cup of coffee (I hope not!) or a bar of chocolate (I really hope not!) or a glass of wine (teetotallers are excommunicated in the Eastern Catholic churches - that’s why we immerse the Precious Body in the Precious Blood and give both, to confute the Manichaean heresy), and all of these are drugs which can be abused, like cannabis. Quoting the Catechism in this context doesn’t tell us anything except the principle we all agree on - that drugs should not be abused, and that something meant for strictly therapeutic purposes (which is not coterminous with the set of all drugs - alcohol, caffeine, and cannabis might have either therapeutic or non-therapeutic uses or both) should only be used for therapeutic purposes.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

It not just some members, it is the whole Church:
Re: Bolded statement above. As long as marijuana use is illegal, this is a false statement. Disobeyeing a legimate authority is intrinsically wrong, and therefore sinful.
Multiple unrepented non-serious sins will lead to the weakening of the will, which will make it much easier to commit a mortal sin in the future.

Your argument that ‘everyone does it’ is fallacious and it is not valid to conclude that it not sinful (read wrong).

I disagree that the WHOLE Church feels that the use of marijuana is a mortal sin. The CCC says “drugs”, but what is a drug? Alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are all drugs, medically speaking, but they are all o.k. in moderation. Marijuana is scientifically proven to be less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes (especially when vaporized). The ONLY sinfulness that I can see with marijuana is the fact that it is illegal, as is speeding, running a red light, etc., none of which are mortal sins. So what makes the responsible, MODERATE use of marijuana a mortal sin? NOTHING.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I said it before, and I’ll say it again. You need to either go back to the priest that heard your confession and gave you the advice that you take with issue with as you described it in your OP and ask for more guidance. OR find a different priest to talk to. But either way, you must listen to the guidance THEY give you, not the opinions found on a forum. You will always find opinions both for and against an issue that is troubling you, but you need the guidance of a good spiritual director. Its not even the issue of smoking pot that should be the debate, its that you are trying to find a reason not to listen to the priest. Either you are not ready to change, or you out and out don’t have any faith in what the priest said, either way you’re looking for a loophole to disregard what he said. That is the most troubling of your situation.

I am NOT trying to find a reason NOT to listen to the priest. I believe he is wrong in saying that it is a serious sin…period. My main concern now is questioning the validity of my confession simply based on the fact that one priest feels that marijuana use and being tipsy (but not drunk to the point of loss of reason) is inherently a mortal sin, and whether or not the intent to smoke marijuana again or to get tipsy again invalidates my confession, when I do not believe either to be a mortal sin.

 

[exoflare]

It’s the TREE OF LIFE, maaayyyynn!! :hypno: (j/k)

If you don’t like what your current confessor is telling you, there’s always this guy:
youtube.com/watch?v=n_KP5IIQqCk&feature=related
(Youtube - The Church of Cannabis)

 

[PatriceA]

I am NOT trying to find a reason NOT to listen to the priest. I believe he is wrong in saying that it is a serious sin…period. My main concern now is questioning the validity of my confession simply based on the fact that one priest feels that marijuana use and being tipsy (but not drunk to the point of loss of reason) is inherently a mortal sin, and whether or not the intent to smoke marijuana again or to get tipsy again invalidates my confession, when I do not believe either to be a mortal sin.

You are trying to find a reason, you can’t even see it. Try a different priest. But if a different priest tells you the same, what then? Keep searching until you find a priest that tells you exactly what you want to hear?

This priest said something that struck a nerve with you. Deep down I bet you think there is something to some of what he said concerning smoking pot and drinking. You’re just looking for people to tell you it will be ok.

 

[Cecilianus]

I disagree that the WHOLE Church feels that the use of marijuana is a mortal sin. The CCC says “drugs”, but what is a drug? Alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are all drugs, medically speaking, but they are all o.k. in moderation. Marijuana is scientifically proven to be less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes (especially when vaporized). The ONLY sinfulness that I can see with marijuana is the fact that it is illegal, as is speeding, running a red light, etc., none of which are mortal sins. So what makes the responsible, MODERATE use of marijuana a mortal sin? NOTHING.

Thoughtfulone, using marijuana is a little bit more serious than running a red light, or speeding, or even drinking underage (I wasn’t exactly 21 when I had my first beer - and my spiritual director was perfectly cognizant of the fact). I’ve never been asked when applying for jobs or talking to military recruiters about my driving record or whether my good Italian family ever served me wine on holidays (or whether I ever had a beer at school). I have been asked things that the law actually cares about, such as, have I ever been behind bars or in the back of a cop car? Have I ever used drugs?

At school people are pretty lax about the laws. Underage drinking is pretty rampant, and even your professors and resident assistants might be more than happy to get you beer and have one with you. We’re not sticklers about the law by any stretch. But get caught smoking a joint and you won’t be coming back. It’s taken much, much more seriously.

 

[Cominghome89]

To be honest, this whole long conversation is a lot of argument that is side-stepping the important issues here. To all of you who have cited sources and stated your own ideas about why an illegal drug is in fact sinful to use, even in “moderation”, you are right. To those of you who are trying to reconcile your marijuana use with your Catholic faith, you are justifying sin, whether mortal or venial, and this will always hurt your relationship with our loving Father.

I speak as one who spent many years smoking, both “moderately” and heavily during much of my young life. Breaking the law is always a sin, and there’s no way around that. But there is something much more serious than that going on. Let’s say that smoking marijuana occasionally is not mortal sin, but only venial (quite possibly true). Don’t you realize that you are willingly engaging in a venial sin rather than obeying God? Don’t you see that indulging in venial sin, knowing that it is venial sin, is itself grave matter? Think about lying. Many people let a white lie slip, this is obviously venial sin. But, saying that you have no problem with an occasional lie, as long as it doesn’t cross the line, etc. is embracing a sin. The seriousness of the sin is not the main concern, the fact that you know it is sin and wish to “occasionally” or “moderately” do it anyway is an offense to God. You are saying to our loving Lord “I know it offends you, but there are MUCH worse things, so I can do it anyway, once in a while.” There is a huge difference between falling into venial sin and accepting it as “no big deal”. Struggling to stop smoking is very different than being content with occasional use.

Take it from one with plenty of experience, I am by no means one who grew up a clean, sober Catholic boy. Even getting “a little tipsy” or taking a few puffs DOES mess up your relationship with God. Will you go to hell for it? I’d never make that claim, God alone is the judge. But by choosing to impair your mind, even a little bit, once in a while, you are willingly separating yourself from the mind-state God has given us, the mind-state meant to pray constantly and behold His glory. By embracing even the smallest of sins, you are embracing an attitude that allows you to cling to things that are not of God.

The choice will always be yours, my brothers and sisters. But, quite frankly, it’s not a smart choice. Take even your occasional few drinks or use of marijuana, humbly accept that God wants you more completely in love with him, and let it go. Giving these habits to God (even when they became occasional and moderate) was one of the greatest things I’ve done in my life. My relationship with God has grown beautifully through total sobriety.

Yours lovingly in Christ and Mary,
Frank

 

[rev_kevin]

To be honest, this whole long conversation is a lot of argument that is side-stepping the important issues here. To all of you who have cited sources and stated your own ideas about why an illegal drug is in fact sinful to use, even in “moderation”, you are right. To those of you who are trying to reconcile your marijuana use with your Catholic faith, you are justifying sin, whether mortal or venial, and this will always hurt your relationship with our loving Father.

I speak as one who spent many years smoking, both “moderately” and heavily during much of my young life. Breaking the law is always a sin, and there’s no way around that. But there is something much more serious than that going on. Let’s say that smoking marijuana occasionally is not mortal sin, but only venial (quite possibly true). Don’t you realize that you are willingly engaging in a venial sin rather than obeying God? Don’t you see that indulging in venial sin, knowing that it is venial sin, is itself grave matter? Think about lying. Many people let a white lie slip, this is obviously venial sin. But, saying that you have no problem with an occasional lie, as long as it doesn’t cross the line, etc. is embracing a sin. The seriousness of the sin is not the main concern, the fact that you know it is sin and wish to “occasionally” or “moderately” do it anyway is an offense to God. You are saying to our loving Lord “I know it offends you, but there are MUCH worse things, so I can do it anyway, once in a while.” There is a huge difference between falling into venial sin and accepting it as “no big deal”. Struggling to stop smoking is very different than being content with occasional use.

Take it from one with plenty of experience, I am by no means one who grew up a clean, sober Catholic boy. Even getting “a little tipsy” or taking a few puffs DOES mess up your relationship with God. Will you go to hell for it? I’d never make that claim, God alone is the judge. But by choosing to impair your mind, even a little bit, once in a while, you are willingly separating yourself from the mind-state God has given us, the mind-state meant to pray constantly and behold His glory. By embracing even the smallest of sins, you are embracing an attitude that allows you to cling to things that are not of God.

The choice will always be yours, my brothers and sisters. But, quite frankly, it’s not a smart choice. Take even your occasional few drinks or use of marijuana, humbly accept that God wants you more completely in love with him, and let it go. Giving these habits to God (even when they became occasional and moderate) was one of the greatest things I’ve done in my life. My relationship with God has grown beautifully through total sobriety.

Yours lovingly in Christ and Mary,
Frank

Where does it say that smoking pot is a sin?
Is it a sin because it alters the mind or is it a sin because it is illegal in society?
Is it a sin to speed?
Its a sin to break mans laws or God’s laws?

 

[shaky]

davidv: What about sugar, caffeine, and alcohol, which are all drugs? Something tells me that the paragraph 2291 of the Catechism doesn’t forbid a cup of coffee (I hope not!) or a bar of chocolate (I really hope not!) or a glass of wine (teetotallers are excommunicated in the Eastern Catholic churches - that’s why we immerse the Precious Body in the Precious Blood and give both, to confute the Manichaean heresy), and all of these are drugs which can be abused, like cannabis. Quoting the Catechism in this context doesn’t tell us anything except the principle we all agree on - that drugs should not be abused, and that something meant for strictly therapeutic purposes (which is not coterminous with the set of all drugs - alcohol, caffeine, and cannabis might have either therapeutic or non-therapeutic uses or both) should only be used for therapeutic purposes.

Are you Joking by saying teetotallers being excommunicated?

 

[Cecilianus]

To be honest, this whole long conversation is a lot of argument that is side-stepping the important issues here. To all of you who have cited sources and stated your own ideas about why an illegal drug is in fact sinful to use, even in “moderation”, you are right. To those of you who are trying to reconcile your marijuana use with your Catholic faith, you are justifying sin, whether mortal or venial, and this will always hurt your relationship with our loving Father.

I speak as one who spent many years smoking, both “moderately” and heavily during much of my young life. Breaking the law is always a sin, and there’s no way around that. But there is something much more serious than that going on. Let’s say that smoking marijuana occasionally is not mortal sin, but only venial (quite possibly true). Don’t you realize that you are willingly engaging in a venial sin rather than obeying God? Don’t you see that indulging in venial sin, knowing that it is venial sin, is itself grave matter? Think about lying. Many people let a white lie slip, this is obviously venial sin. But, saying that you have no problem with an occasional lie, as long as it doesn’t cross the line, etc. is embracing a sin. The seriousness of the sin is not the main concern, the fact that you know it is sin and wish to “occasionally” or “moderately” do it anyway is an offense to God. You are saying to our loving Lord “I know it offends you, but there are MUCH worse things, so I can do it anyway, once in a while.” There is a huge difference between falling into venial sin and accepting it as “no big deal”. Struggling to stop smoking is very different than being content with occasional use.

Take it from one with plenty of experience, I am by no means one who grew up a clean, sober Catholic boy. Even getting “a little tipsy” or taking a few puffs DOES mess up your relationship with God. Will you go to hell for it? I’d never make that claim, God alone is the judge. But by choosing to impair your mind, even a little bit, once in a while, you are willingly separating yourself from the mind-state God has given us, the mind-state meant to pray constantly and behold His glory. By embracing even the smallest of sins, you are embracing an attitude that allows you to cling to things that are not of God.

The choice will always be yours, my brothers and sisters. But, quite frankly, it’s not a smart choice. Take even your occasional few drinks or use of marijuana, humbly accept that God wants you more completely in love with him, and let it go. Giving these habits to God (even when they became occasional and moderate) was one of the greatest things I’ve done in my life. My relationship with God has grown beautifully through total sobriety.

Yours lovingly in Christ and Mary,
Frank

The Church does not regard it as being venially sinful to get a little bit tipsy, and I do not find that it impedes or “messes up” my relationship to God. If it did I doubt Christ would have chosen the particular miracle He did as his first. As something to the effect that Benjamin Franklin said, God gave us beer to show men that He loves us and wants us to be happy. The proper approach to alcohol is, as St. Thomas Aquinas said, to drink to the point of merriment and not to the point of losing your reason.

 

[Cecilianus]

Are you Joking by saying teetotallers being excommunicated?

No. The Precious Body and the Precious Blood were once administered separately; the Precious Blood is now immersed in the Blood and administered with a spoon so that the Manichaean heretics who refused to partake of the Blood (regarded any kind of alcohol consumption as being evil) would have to give up their heresy if they wanted to receive Holy Communion.

Obviously, a recovering alcoholic who does not drink because of the temptation it would provide him (and who would obviously not be affected by the tiny amount of wine received sacramentally) should continue in his abstinence; nobody is ever given enough alcohol in Communion for that to be a problem.

 

[rev_kevin]

No. The Precious Body and the Precious Blood were once administered separately; the Precious Blood is now immersed in the Blood and administered with a spoon so that the Manichaean heretics who refused to partake of the Blood (regarded any kind of alcohol consumption as being evil) would have to give up their heresy if they wanted to receive Holy Communion.

Obviously, a recovering alcoholic who does not drink because of the temptation it would provide him (and who would obviously not be affected by the tiny amount of wine received sacramentally) should continue in his abstinence; nobody is ever given enough alcohol in Communion for that to be a problem.

Ya it can cause a problem for a recovering alcoholic. There is a strong tast of alcohol in the altar wine. (from what I remember) That is enough for a recovering alcoholic to start drinking again. It don’t take much for them to fall off the wagon. Even a sip can be harmful to them. No alcohol means no alcohol not even a drop. That would be like saying I quit smoking but someone gives me a puff once a week. That one puff once a week will lead to one puff everyday, then one cig. a day, and so on. Its the same with someone who quits drinking, it starts with one sip once a week then one sip every day, them one glass full every day and so on. Sometimes just the smell of alcohol causes one to fall off the wagon.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

That is exactly my point. When you smoke pot, can you stop before you know you’ve reached a point that you are too high to drive a car?

Easily.

Yep.

To engage in your normal activity without being impared?

Sure.

I can have one glass of wine with dinner and know I have not crossed over the line into excessive drinking. Can you say the same when you smoke pot, no matter how infrequent you do?

Yep. In fact, I have great incentive to stop before i goo too far. I’ve gone too far a couple of times and it isn’t pleasant at all.

BTW, I have a doctor’s recommendation to use marijuana in California.

The person that has multiple drinks is no different than the person that smokes pot to get high. Each are using a substance to be intoxicated or impaired, that is the sin.

[/QUOTE]

 

[rev_kevin]

PatriceA;7392602:

That is exactly my point. When you smoke pot, can you stop before you know you’ve reached a point that you are too high to drive a car?

So are you insinuating that only PROTESTENTS use pot? That its their life style to smoke pot? :tsktsk:

Oh so its kind of like saying lets see :newidea: can you stop drinking before you reach the point that you’re too drunk to drive a car?

 

[shaky]

A quote from the above article:

1. It is not drugs that are in question, but the human, psychological and existential issues implicit in this kind of behaviour. All too often we do not want to understand these issues and forget that it is not the product that creates the addiction, but the person who feels the need for it. Products may differ but the basic reasons remain the same. Thus the distinction between “hard drugs” and “soft drugs” is irrelevant.

So by this reasoning, alcohol, tobacco and even caffeine ALL fall under this umbrella. Hypocrisy anyone?

Well { 5.} Did mention alcohol and tobacco also Prescribed drugs. The distinction is irrelevant between hard drugs and soft drugs. Its not the product that causes the Addiction. Its the Mind. Its a Psychological Addiction.

I used to use cannabis myself for over 10 years. I used at a very moderate level mostly just to go to sleep on. I had the odd Joint during the day when not working without putting to much in.
But i disagreed with skunk!! Just One Joint and i felt my whole day was ruined.

I did find cannabis hard to stop when i wanted. Because i could not sleep. Also because i enjoyed being Just relaxed and slightly stoned in another level of consciousness. I found food tasted better and got the munchies a bit. Tea and coffee seemed to taste better as-well.
I did stop in the end because of financial reasons and because when i used during the day i felt lazy, to tired to do things, and it was effecting my short term memory until it wore off.
When i did stop i could not sleep for 2 days then not properly for about 2 weeks. Once i got past that. I decided not to use Again. Really if you want to stop useing you have to have Psychological reasons to stop. To Overcome the Psychological Addiction to use.

Whether it is Sin or not i believe depends on how much you are useing. Cannabis does come under herbs and herbs is mentioned in the bible that you can use.