Occasions of sin

[Elvenwarrior2k1]

I know what occasions of sin are and I’ve read the Catholic Encyclopedia, and it talks about one being obligated to avoid “proximate occasions of sin” which suggests to me that occasions of sin can be sinful when deliberately not avoided. What’s not clear to me is whether an “occasion of sin” is something that can be gravely sinful, or in other words, a mortal sin.

On one hand one has the obligation to avoid occasions of sin, so it can be argued I think that they perhaps could be mortal sins, but on the other hand I also get the impression that avoiding occasions of sin are an act of prudence rather than strict morality, so could something like that be a grave sin?

I’m not sure if there are any hard and fast answers on this question, but I’d be happy to listen to speculation if nothing else.

 

[JRKH]

I readily agree that there are no “Hard and fast” rules -

Jesus teaches us that we must watch - not only our actions - but also our thoughts and attitudes. Taking adultery as the common example, Jesus says if you look at another woman with lust, you have already committed adultery with her - a grave sin. So do you stop looking at women altogether? Of course not…
So the solution to avoiding “proximate occasion of sin” is to change how one thinks.

As another and perhaps simpler example - suppose that a person was addicted to Porn and spent time on-line looking at pictures of nude women. He determines he must stop this because it is sin. So he cleans his computer of all the porn and sets up blocks for himself. So far so good…After a time though he runs across ads, and other pictures of women in skimpy bathing suits and lingerie…and justifies that, “they aren’t nude”…so they are OK to look at.
But - The fact is that he is looking at them with the same lust, and desire. He has not changed his thought process.

The person with a pure heart can go very near proximate occasions of sin, and not sin - because of how they think. In the first place they would not choose to go to a “near occasion” unless it were necessary for some greater good, (Like say retrieving a child from a topless bar or something) and secondly if they did need to go to such a place (physically) they would rely on their Love of God to keep them safe from the temptations.

I apologize for my clumsy examples above, there are naturally a lot of subtleties in all of this. The main thing is to keep your mind and heart focused on the Love of God and Love of neighbor. Keep you eye on the prize…

Peace
James

 

[105lynne]

I readily agree that there are no “Hard and fast” rules -

Jesus teaches us that we must watch - not only our actions - but also our thoughts and attitudes. Taking adultery as the common example, Jesus says if you look at another woman with lust, you have already committed adultery with her - a grave sin. So do you stop looking at women altogether? Of course not…
So the solution to avoiding “proximate occasion of sin” is to change how one thinks.

As another and perhaps simpler example - suppose that a person was addicted to Porn and spent time on-line looking at pictures of nude women. He determines he must stop this because it is sin. So he cleans his computer of all the porn and sets up blocks for himself. So far so good…After a time though he runs across ads, and other pictures of women in skimpy bathing suits and lingerie…and justifies that, “they aren’t nude”…so they are OK to look at.
But - The fact is that he is looking at them with the same lust, and desire. He has not changed his thought process.

The person with a pure heart can go very near proximate occasions of sin, and not sin - because of how they think. In the first place they would not choose to go to a “near occasion” unless it were necessary for some greater good, (Like say retrieving a child from a topless bar or something) and secondly if they did need to go to such a place (physically) they would rely on their Love of God to keep them safe from the temptations.

I apologize for my clumsy examples above, there are naturally a lot of subtleties in all of this. The main thing is to keep your mind and heart focused on the Love of God and Love of neighbor. Keep you eye on the prize…

Peace
James

“Clumsy examples”? I thought this answer was great!!

 

[Bookcat]

I know what occasions of sin are and I’ve read the Catholic Encyclopedia, and it talks about one being obligated to avoid “proximate occasions of sin” which suggests to me that occasions of sin can be sinful when deliberately not avoided. What’s not clear to me is whether an “occasion of sin” is something that can be gravely sinful, or in other words, a mortal sin.

On one hand one has the obligation to avoid occasions of sin, so it can be argued I think that they perhaps could be mortal sins, but on the other hand I also get the impression that avoiding occasions of sin are an act of prudence rather than strict morality, so could something like that be a grave sin?

I’m not sure if there are any hard and fast answers on this question, but I’d be happy to listen to speculation if nothing else.

Yes proximate (near) occasions of sin can be also sinful to enter into or remain in. And this can be venial and it can be also grave. (there can be though various variables that can go into things…).

A clear example of grave would be that someone knows that they will commit some certain mortal sin if they do or to go Q (at least morally certain I would think) …they need to avoid doing or going to Q. If they knowingly with full knowledge and complete consent do or go to Q…well they can commit a mortal sin…even if they escape without committing the mortal sin that they were certain they would commit.

(the same qualities needed for other mortal sin…are needed here too…)

So it is important not to think one has already committed some mortal sin…when one has committed no sin or a venial sin…and that there are lots of temptations out there …which are not per se near occasions of sin…so do not be unduly concerned. Yes as Jesus said “watch” and “pray” but this does not mean of course to have needless anxiety either…

(now there can be certain ones that they can not avoid…or that say for example a policeman may have to go to some place where he knows he may sin mortally …that can be a different thing of course…but they must seek to make the occasion more remote…via prayer etc…like I said there are lots of variables that can be in play)

(and prudence is very key to morality… )

It is also important for those who struggle with scruples not to scruple here…but follow their confessor’s advice …follow the principles given to them.

 

[Elvenwarrior2k1]

Thank you for your responses.