Occasions of sin?

[Monica4316]

I need some help is it right to say… “Its a mortal sin to put ourselves into an occasion of mortal sin without need. Its a venial sin to put ourselves into an occasion of venial sin without need. Its an imperfection to put ourselves into an occasion of distraction etc, but if charity demands it, this ceases to be an imperfection”. ??? Thank you

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

It is merely a venial sin to place ourselves in the near occasion of sin, unless it is a very grave sin (such as murder).

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It is merely a venial sin to place ourselves in the near occasion of sin, unless it is a very grave sin (such as murder).

Why is that only a venial sin?

 

[fred_conty]

I need some help is it right to say… “Its a mortal sin to put ourselves into an occasion of mortal sin without need. Its a venial sin to put ourselves into an occasion of venial sin without need. Its an imperfection to put ourselves into an occasion of distraction etc, but if charity demands it, this ceases to be an imperfection”. ??? Thank you

If it would be necessary, then not wrong. For instance, a person going to a luncheon in a bar with a company of his fellow workers for a meeting. Even tho he has a hard time controlling his drinking, in this case I would think it would be ok. But if he did it on his own after work to eat there, it would seem to me prudence(not the girl, but the virtue) would tell him to eat somewhere else.

The one that comes to mind the most is drinking and driving. To place oneself in that situation(occasion), would be a sin in itself even if nothing bad happened.

It just seems to me that what is an occasion to one person may not be to another. And to place ourselves in jepordy would take a proportionately good reason to do so, and not just because I want to.

 

[Bookcat]

Occasions of sin…

There are all sorts of remote occasions of sin in life…all sorts of possible good things that one can do --where there is a possibility that some temptation may come.

Normally we are not “obliged” to avoid “remote” occasions of sin.

We simply cannot avoid all such things nor are we usually obliged to do so. We would have to knock ourselves unconscious…

What then is a* “near” *occasion of mortal sin that we are to avoid especially?

It is not simply temptation (though let us seek to avoid temptations).

A near occasion of mortal sin is such where one would generally falls into mortal sin -one generally commits a mortal sin (or even always!)–or is what is likely to cause one to commit a particular mortal sin now. Due to the nature of thing itself or ones particular personal weakness.

Though there can at times be good reasons to be in them…ones confessor can guide one or those that cannot be avoided (involuntary) (necessary occasions…which one still tries to make more remote…)

Those are the general principles for one to apply. Ones confessor can guide one. In specifics.

So can it be sinful to put oneself into a near occasion of mortal sin? Or remain in one? Yes. (it may be venial or even mortal or even not a sin depending on the reasons).

A clear example of when such would be a mortal sin could be -(with full knowledge and deliberate consent) when I am morally certain that if I put myself into circumstance Y that I will commit mortal sin Z. And I do so with that needed knowledge and consent.
*
Ones confessor can advise*.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Why is that only a venial sin?

I don’t know. I was confused by the same thing that the original poster was confused about, so I asked a priest and he told me what I said in my post.

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t know. I was confused by the same thing that the original poster was confused about, so I asked a priest and he told me what I said in my post.

He could have been responding to a particular question - situation.

See my post for an overview.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t know. I was confused by the same thing that the original poster was confused about, so I asked a priest and he told me what I said in my post.

He probably meant well but it does not make theological sense. And in general I cringe when others tell people that such and such is not a mortal sin etc. That is not our place and it has been demonstrated that it can indeed be mortal. We just need to be careful when we repeat something we heard once without sources… Not only for intellectual honesty but when we are dealing with sin the stakes are much higher.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you everyone!

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

He probably meant well but it does not make theological sense. And in general I cringe when others tell people that such and such is not a mortal sin etc. That is not our place and it has been demonstrated that it can indeed be mortal. We just need to be careful when we repeat something we heard once without sources… Not only for intellectual honesty but when we are dealing with sin the stakes are much higher.

I assure you that I did not post carelessly as I relayed what a knowledgeable priest told me. If a layman or an unorthodox priest told me anything, I wouldn’t have posted it.

I looked in my catechism and it says that voluntary occasions of sin are sinful and will *lead * to mortal sin, they aren’t mortal sins in themselves, which supports what the priest told me. It says, “To expose one’s self heedlessly to an occasion of sin, is in itself a sin; it entails the loss of divine grace and leads to mortal sin… He who finds himself in circumstances which are an occasion of sin to him, and does not instantly leave them, although it is in his power to do so, commits a sin; he will be deprived of the assistance of divine grace and will fall into mortal sin”

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I assure you that I did not post carelessly as I relayed what a knowledgeable priest told me. If a layman or an unorthodox priest told me anything, I wouldn’t have posted it.

I looked in my catechism and it says that voluntary occasions of sin are sinful and will *lead * to mortal sin, they aren’t mortal sins in themselves, which supports what the priest told me. It says, “To expose one’s self heedlessly to an occasion of sin, is in itself a sin; it entails the loss of divine grace and leads to mortal sin… He who finds himself in circumstances which are an occasion of sin to him, and does not instantly leave them, although it is in his power to do so, commits a sin; he will be deprived of the assistance of divine grace and will fall into mortal sin”

So you are sticking by placing oneself in a near occasion of sin on purpose cannot be mortal? Theology would not agree.

As for telling someone else on this site if something is a mortal sin or not, are you willing to say to God. “Lord if I am wrong, place their sin on me…” You shouldn’t be. And we have not been given that power.

I ask you. What do you do with the fact that one priest can say one thing and another can say the opposite? Which one is right?

 

[Bookcat]

I assure you that I did not post carelessly as I relayed what a knowledgeable priest told me. If a layman or an unorthodox priest told me anything, I wouldn’t have posted it.

I looked in my catechism and it says that voluntary occasions of sin are sinful and will *lead * to mortal sin, they aren’t mortal sins in themselves.

(First off - a layperson can give a perfectly orthodox and correct answer. They may even had a degree or degrees in Theology beyond that of a particular Priest…)

They are not the mortal sin themselves that “they are the near occasion of”- (*hence a near occasion of fornication is not the mortal sin of fornication) but they “can” be mortal sins “themselves” (a person for example who is morally certain that they will commit the sin of fornication of they do Z - and go ahead without necessity and with full knowledge and deliberate consent do Z - is a good example of a mortal sin".).

---

Occasions of sin…

There are all sorts of remote occasions of sin in life…all sorts of possible good things that one can do --where there is a possibility that some temptation may come.

Normally we are not “obliged” to avoid “remote” occasions of sin.

We simply cannot avoid all such things nor are we usually obliged to do so. We would have to knock ourselves unconscious…

What then is a “near” occasion of mortal sin that we are to avoid especially?

It is not simply temptation (though let us seek to avoid temptations).

A near occasion of mortal sin is such where one would generally falls into mortal sin -one generally commits a mortal sin (or even always!)–or is what is likely to cause one to commit a particular mortal sin now. Due to the nature of thing itself or ones particular personal weakness.

Though there can at times be good reasons to be in them…ones confessor can guide one or those that cannot be avoided (involuntary) (necessary occasions…which one still tries to make more remote…)

Those are the general principles for one to apply. Ones confessor can guide one. In specifics.

So can it be sinful to put oneself into a near occasion of mortal sin? Or remain in one? Yes. (it may be venial or even mortal or even not a sin depending on the reasons).

A clear example of when such would be a mortal sin could be -(with full knowledge and deliberate consent) when I am morally certain that if I put myself into circumstance Y that I will commit mortal sin Z. And I do so with that needed knowledge and consent.

*Ones confessor can advise. *

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

So you are sticking by placing oneself in a near occasion of sin on purpose cannot be mortal? Theology would not agree.

As for telling someone else on this site if something is a mortal sin or not, are you willing to say to God. “Lord if I am wrong, place their sin on me…” You shouldn’t be. And we have not been given that power.

I ask you. What do you do with the fact that one priest can say one thing and another can say the opposite? Which one is right?

Yes, I am sticking with it but I know that I can be wrong, so I am looking for reliable sources that indicate it to be a mortal sin. Also, I know it can be mortal, such as in the circumstances I outlined in my post.

I was trying to answer the original poster’s question, I don’t see anything wrong with that. I don’t think it is wrong to tell someone whether something is a mortal sin or not if we have been informed by a reasonably reliable source.

Yes, I am quite aware of the fallibility of priests, but the priest I asked is very orthodox, knowledgeable, and he comes from an order of traditional priests that have all proven to be very enlightened. Every time I ask a question in the confessional, they have given me advice and catechesis that is proven correct with other sources and is adherent to Church teaching. I am very confident with the priest’s answer which is why I am reluctant to believe the contrary.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

They are not the mortal sin themselves that “they are the near occasion of”- (*hence a near occasion of fornication is not the mortal sin of fornication) but they “can” be mortal sins “themselves” (a person for example who is morally certain that they will commit the sin of fornication of they do Z - and go ahead without necessity and with full knowledge and deliberate consent do Z - is a good example of a mortal sin".).

Could you please provide a source?