OCD or demonic obsession?

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Faira21 said:
I am not sure I understand :hmmm:

If you are saying that I am suggesting priests should do what we want, that is not it at all. Quite the opposite. Many good but misled priests need to stop doing what they want and start doing what God wants.

The belief in the devil is a Catholic belief that we are required to hold as Catholics. It is not something that I want - it is what the Church asks of us. Priests who do not believe in that and tell others that the devil is not real are guiding the flock according to what they think, not what the Church teaches.
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I agree, but in 41 years have never heard any Priest deny the devil exsist. I think your buying hype.
 
You may not have met one, but I have met priests with very questionable gaps in their faith.

Not only priests, but I have known Catholics who do not believe in hell or the devil. I meet so many people who think “most people go to heaven.”

Then again, I am very senstive to small comments. And I will be with others who do not notice small comments people make, which cause me to question their thoughts on things. When confronted directly, they usually reveal what I suspected but the other person did not.
 
Faira21 said:
You may not have met one, but I have met priests with very questionable gaps in their faith.

Not only priests, but I have known Catholics who do not believe in hell or the devil. I meet so many people who think “most people go to heaven.”

Then again, I am very senstive to small comments. And I will be with others who do not notice small comments people make, which cause me to question their thoughts on things. When confronted directly, they usually reveal what I suspected but the other person did not.
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If it is such a widespread problem, you’ll have to provide some citations or quotes. I have see evidence to differ in recent years.
 
Well, anything I can provide is from personal experience, which I would be unable to back up as it is from personal experience and all I can offer there is “this is what was said.” I cannot back it with a reference someone can look up.

To be honest, the church today is so liberal in so many places that I am really surprised you have not encountered not only that, but many other unorthodox tendencies. You are blessed though that you have not.

Since it is under question, I ran a search online. Here are some links:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/mexican_exorcist_criticizes_priests_who_do_not_believe_in_the_devil/

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=240813

independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/the-devilrsquos-own-work-why-do-priests-still-perform-exorcisms-2223832.html

“The logic behind this vow of silence is plain. Church leaders don’t like mentioning the Devil in case it makes them sound medieval, superstitious or out of touch.”

catholicnewsagency.com/news/spanish_exorcist_addresses_claims_of_satanic_influence_in_vatican/

"The Italian priest also warned of the existence of bishops and priests who do not believe in Satan in the interview. “And yet, in the Gospel, Jesus speaks extensively about it, so it should be said, either they’ve never read the Gospel or they just don’t believe it!”

You can also google Malachi Martin and listen to audio interviews by him. He talks of bishops who want nothint to do with it and do not want it mentioned.

Anyways, I could probably dig up more but it is late and this isn’t really why I started the thread anyways - but it is interesting to discuss 🙂
 
Only good exorcist know difference between this two elements. Wrong dealing with this stuff is very dangueres.
 
Faira21 said:
Many good but misled priests need to stop doing what they want and start doing what God wants.
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How are priests being misled? Is it coming from the seminaries? Are they just making stuff up on their own? My sense is that the source is more sinister. :confused:

I have found that the priests seem ok during their homilies. I have to share some recent conversations I had in the confessional.

With my local pastor:
P You were here last week weren’t you?
MD Yes
P Weekly confession is excessive.
**MD ** No it isn’t. Bless me father for I have sinned…

With a visiting priest:
MD Are we talking mortal sin here Father?
P One of the requirements for mortal sin is that the act must done for the purpose of separating an individual from God’s love.
MD Almost no one will do that.
P Then you will agree with me that mortal sin is very rare.

Another visiting priest:
MD What role does the devil play in temptation?
P The devil rarely has to tempt anyone. The temptations of the world are more than sufficient.

Is it me, or have these priests wandered from the Church’s teachings?
 
It’s kind of shocking really. i have heard rumors, but never came across it. My parish Priest refers to the enemy as “the old boy” and preaches without reservation. I think I would walk away from a homily that differed from the teachings of the faith. Thanks for the links.
 
MtnDwellar said:
How are priests being misled? Is it coming from the seminaries? Are they just making stuff up on their own? My sense is that the source is more sinister. :confused:

I have found that the priests seem ok during their homilies. I have to share some recent conversations I had in the confessional.

With my local pastor:
P You were here last week weren’t you?
MD Yes
P Weekly confession is excessive.
**MD ** No it isn’t. Bless me father for I have sinned…

With a visiting priest:
MD Are we talking mortal sin here Father?
P One of the requirements for mortal sin is that the act must done for the purpose of separating an individual from God’s love.
MD Almost no one will do that.
P Then you will agree with me that mortal sin is very rare.

Another visiting priest:
MD What role does the devil play in temptation?
P The devil rarely has to tempt anyone. The temptations of the world are more than sufficient.

Is it me, or have these priests wandered from the Church’s teachings?
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Hello,

Here’s my 2 pence.
MD Are we talking mortal sin here Father?
P One of the requirements for mortal sin is that the act must done for the purpose of separating an individual from God’s love.
MD Almost no one will do that.
P Then you will agree with me that mortal sin is very rare.
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This is true. He is not implying that mortal sin is rare in the world, but that it is rare in a practicing Christian’s life. That is, after all, what you meant by ‘almost no one will do that’. For example: A devout Catholic masturbates. He has an addiction to masturbation. He does not masturbate to ‘seperate himself from God’s love’, but because he has an addiction that he is struggling with, which he is in the process of trying to fix. A traditionalist catholic will slam down the CCC and quote what is a mortal sin or not, telling him that he has mortally sinned. Sure, you can quote sin types, but it’s got to do with the individuals heart. It may only be venial sin for the devout Catholic, because of the lack of culpability from the addiction. Only the individual, with the assistance of the CCC, can decipher how serious his sin was.
P You were here last week weren’t you?
MD Yes
P Weekly confession is excessive.
**MD ** No it isn’t. Bless me father for I have sinned…
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As stated earlier, Mortal sin is quite rare for a practicing Catholic. Weekly confession would only be truly necessary if you commited mortal sins during the week, which again, is rare for a practicing Catholic. You are supposed to go to confession when necessary, like if you have serious (mortal) sins on your soul, but it is encouraged to go every couple of weeks for extra graces and an act of repentance to God.

This is what I have gathered over time in RCIA. Forgive me and correct me If I am wrong.
 
PiousTemplar said:
Hello,

Here’s my 2 pence.

This is true. He is not implying that mortal sin is rare in the world, but that it is rare in a practicing Christian’s life. That is, after all, what you meant by ‘almost no one will do that’. For example: A devout Catholic masturbates. He has an addiction to masturbation. He does not masturbate to ‘seperate himself from God’s love’, but because he has an addiction that he is struggling with, which he is in the process of trying to fix. A traditionalist catholic will slam down the CCC and quote what is a mortal sin or not, telling him that he has mortally sinned. Sure, you can quote sin types, but it’s got to do with the individuals heart. It may only be venial sin for the devout Catholic, because of the lack of culpability from the addiction. Only the individual, with the assistance of the CCC, can decipher how serious his sin was.

As stated earlier, Mortal sin is quite rare for a practicing Catholic. Weekly confession would only be truly necessary if you commited mortal sins during the week, which again, is rare for a practicing Catholic. You are supposed to go to confession when necessary, like if you have serious (mortal) sins on your soul, but it is encouraged to go every couple of weeks for extra graces and an act of repentance to God.

This is what I have gathered over time in RCIA. Forgive me and correct me If I am wrong.
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Thanks for trying to paint the priests in a more positive light.

I don’t agree with your insights. The requirement that the priest gave for mortal sin is materially different than the Catechism. There is a difference between full knowledge and consent and purposely separating oneself from God’s love. Stating that mortal sin is a rare for a practicing Catholic is a true Scotsman argument.

There is also a difference between unnecessary and excessive. The sacrament of Penance is a source of grace. It may be unnecessary from the standpoint of absolution, but the grace is beneficial. Stating that frequent confession is excessive means that we already have enough grace. I have read some Pope’s confessed weekly and others daily.
 
Ok, im seriously confused now. I’ll leave it to the professionals.
 
MtnDwellar said:
Thanks for trying to paint the priests in a more positive light.

I don’t agree with your insights. The requirement that the priest gave for mortal sin is materially different than the Catechism. There is a difference between full knowledge and consent and purposely separating oneself from God’s love. Stating that mortal sin is a rare for a practicing Catholic is a true Scotsman argument.

There is also a difference between unnecessary and excessive. The sacrament of Penance is a source of grace. It may be unnecessary from the standpoint of absolution, but the grace is beneficial. Stating that frequent confession is excessive means that we already have enough grace. I have read some Pope’s confessed weekly and others daily.
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Wait a minute, I don’t there is a difference between ‘full knowlege and consent and purposely seperating oneself from God’s love.’ In gravely sinning while giving your own consent to it, is that not deliberatly choosing sin over God’s Love?
 
Just my two cents: I used to have a wonderful Opus Dei priest as a confessor. I used to go every friday before evening mass to confession, so did many others from my former parish also. One time for a couple of weeks my confessor was not there. So I went to another priest, and for the first time this was ok. Next week when I went there I had already told my sins and he told me: “You should not use the sacrament in vein”, that venial sins should not be confessed.

What I really like about OD is that they take spiritual counselling seriously while simultaneously having positive attitude and looking to future. (I have been discerning for sometime about becoming Supernumerary vs. OblOBS)
 
Priests are like representatives from God. If God doesn’t give us what we pray for, it’s because there is something better we haven’t learned to ask for yet. :confused:

Priests are overworked, but still end up acting the same way I think. 🙂

Alan
 
With my local pastor:
P You were here last week weren’t you?
MD Yes
P Weekly confession is excessive.
MD No it isn’t. Bless me father for I have sinned…

With a visiting priest:
MD Are we talking mortal sin here Father?
P One of the requirements for mortal sin is that the act must done for the purpose of separating an individual from God’s love.
MD Almost no one will do that.
P Then you will agree with me that mortal sin is very rare.

Another visiting priest:
MD What role does the devil play in temptation?
P The devil rarely has to tempt anyone. The temptations of the world are more than sufficient.
Code: 
    Well,  Judas figured  Christ would have had one of  His Holy Angels to destroy the Romans; so he forced  Christ's Hand by selling Christ to the high priest.  Satan sugar coats sin; so this makes it OK?   Blessed Josefa Menendez wrote that out of 100,000 souls  6 make it to Heaven.   That  is Catholics included.

      Sometimes people say things and they make mistakes.    Priests are people. So Priests make mistakes.   If you can't forgive them then  you can't forgive yourself.

    It is important to remember our position as creatures of God.   Pray, don't worry, and do  good then everything will take care of itself.

 As  far as belief in the devil  I  take a real simple approach and believe the Bible.  Remember  Jesus called  St. Peter  Satan?
BP.
 
Yes, Priest are people to and make mistakes, but have Holy Orders. This is saying a lot…
 
Thanks for the replies 🙂

It is sad to hear so many priests saying things that are clearly not authentic doctrine.

I came up with a good reply to those priests though! I was thinking about it, because I have had so many try to use logic to twist and turn the straightforward doctrines of the church.

I have decided my reply will be this: “You know who else likes to use logic to make twists and turns in offical Church doctrine, making such ‘changes’ or ‘little nuances’ seem ok and rational? And who is really, really good at it? The devil. So don’t worry, you are not alone.”

:hmmm:

Think I might make some enemies?

:knight2:
 
BluesPicker said:
Code: 
    It is important to remember our position as creatures of God.   Pray, don't worry, and do  good then everything will take care of itself.

 As  far as belief in the devil  I  take a real simple approach and believe the Bible.  Remember  Jesus called  St. Peter  Satan?
BP.
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:cool:
 
Faira21 said:
:hmmm:

Think I might make some enemies?

:knight2:
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😃

Hmmmm… you might. :hmmm:

Tell you what; you take your approach and I’ll take mine, and we’ll all make the world go around. ok?

:tiphat:

Alan
 
Samson01 said:
Yes, Priest are people to and make mistakes, but have Holy Orders. This is saying a lot…
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My wife told me we should pray for sinning priests because they have a higher standard by which they will be judged than the rest of us. :crying:

Alan
 
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