October 31, 2017 - 500 Years of Protest is long enough... Time to Come Home

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fizendell
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Fizendell

Guest
I pass a lot of different churches in my weekly driving. Yesterday as I was driving home, I began to think about how on earth we’ve gotten to SO many different churches and denominations. So many that there’s one that meets in the old school down the block from me in what was the gymnasium. Another new church - so new there’s no “church” building for them.

So that thought process goes back to what started the divisions (major of course) and I thought about Luther. And then I thought - hey… hasn’t it been just about 500 years now?

HEY - what a great campaign for evangelism for the reunificiation of the Church that Christ established for us on this Earth!

500 Years of Protesting is long enough - don’t you think? Time for everyone to come Home?

I then began thinking about how we all come to believe what we believe and was transported back to my World Religions class last summer… and well - the thoughts tend to whip around like a roller coaster…

But I just wanted to share - I realize we have a lot of unification issues WITHIN the Catholic Church - but wouldn’t it be interesting to see what would happen if on the 500th anniversary of Luther and his nailing of 95 Theses to the door of the church were marked with people desiring unification of Christ’s Church?!
 
It’s such a sweet idea. The only problem is that as churches fall farther and farther away from the Church, so do their people.

Our real problem is that as Catholics, we CAN NOT comprimise our beliefs. Therefore in order to acheive unification, everyone else must comprimise theirs. I pray daily that this will happen someday, btw.

Anyhow, I do think it’s a great campaign idea and who knows, maybe it could at least start bringing home a few.
 
40.png
Jabronie:
Our real problem is that as Catholics, we CAN NOT comprimise our beliefs. Therefore in order to acheive unification, everyone else must comprimise theirs. I pray daily that this will happen someday, btw.
Click to expand...
But the very essence of compromise is that each party must give up something and come to some sort of an agreement- what you just described is an unconditional dogmatic surrender to our Church and wouldn’t making such a demand prove to be counterproductive?

Besides, we have to keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things, we worship the SAME GOD and believe in the SAME SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST. And until all of us Christians focus on our commonalities rather than our differences, we will remain stuck in the same vicious cycle of prejudice, distrust, and injustice.
 
40.png
LeftHandBlack:
But the very essence of compromise is that each party must give up something and come to some sort of an agreement- what you just described is an unconditional dogmatic surrender to our Church and wouldn’t making such a demand prove to be counterproductive?

Besides, we have to keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things, we worship the SAME GOD and believe in the SAME SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST. And until all of us Christians focus on our commonalities rather than our differences, we will remain stuck in the same vicious cycle of prejudice, distrust, and injustice.
Click to expand...
I have to ask, and really I am not trying to be confrontational, but which Dogmas would you like us to give in on?
 
Folks the protestants are so fractured as not to be recognizable. I mean, from my own background, how many forms of dutch calvinist are there…and some of them don’t talk to each other. For some of them it was supra versus infralapsarianism (at which point did election occur before or after the fall etc). (You can see why I like the Catholic Church) They can’t reconcile themselves. BUT it is a good campaign slogan. Wait our Church has a sign welcoming stray Catholic’s home why not that?

Some of you may have seen my confusion over terms and words. Well I must say the way it was taught to me as a child the word “elect” has a differnent implications for Calvinist and Catholics. That’s why I seek claification.
 
I find that there very few protestants who disagree with what the Catholic Church teaches. Rather, they disagree with what they think the Catholic Church teaches. When I met my wife, she was a protestant, and very anti Catholic. As we shared our faith with each other, she began to realize that she was misinformed about the Church’s teachings. She is now 100% Catholic.

The splintering of the protestants was inevitable. Luther’s sin of disunity has been passed down generation upon generation. There is nothing we can do to re-unite all christians. However, with God, all things are possible.

I was surprised recently to learn of the Ecumenical Catholic Communion (catholiccommunion.org/). Here’s another example of splintering by people who think they know better than God’s established Church.
 
I agree. Time for the Protestants to come home.

Let’s begin with the Anglicans. They can start by giving us back all of our churches in England. It’s not like they’re using them anyway, right? :yup:
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I have to ask, and really I am not trying to be confrontational, but which Dogmas would you like us to give in on?
Click to expand...
I wasn’t referring to any dogma in particular. I guess what I meant was that Jabronie’s statement said that only way to achieve true unification of Christ’s Church is that everyone else either give up on or compromise their doctrines and beliefs while we keep ours intact just makes no sense.

Well, what makes us Catholic so special? What makes us exempt from having to change or reach a state of consensus with our Protestant brothers and sisters? Why should they be forced to cowtow to us?

Attitudes like that are egotistical and creepy.

Like I said before, we should stop focusing on what doctrines and practices separates us and instead focus on the real heart of our Churches, both Catholic and Protestant- GOD and the redeeming power of JESUS CHRIST, THE MESSIAH. The sooner we start doing that, the better.
 
40.png
LeftHandBlack:
Well, what makes us Catholic so special? What makes us exempt from having to change or reach a state of consensus with our Protestant brothers and sisters? Why should they be forced to cowtow to us?

Attitudes like that are egotistical and creepy.

L
Click to expand...
So let’s get the leaders, only, together and they can decide each issue. Oooops… Jesus and Luther already met, and I venture to say, all was decided.

What makes Catholics so special. Granted, we are humans too. The humans in protestanism can concede all they want to… they changed things once, twice… so do it again. But we don’t have that right inside the Church. Jesus alone set the rule, the procedure, the Truth, and then if you choose to walk away, He will let you.

WE CANNOT COME TO CHRIST ON OUR TERMS.

There is not comprimise on the Truth, is there??

The attitudes are not egotistical or creepy… they are truly humble… we place all our trust and faith in God. He is right, always, all the time, forever. We are incompetent to make changes or comprise… no ego…just simple humility.
 
40.png
LeftHandBlack:
I wasn’t referring to any dogma in particular. I guess what I meant was that Jabronie’s statement said that only way to achieve true unification of Christ’s Church is that everyone else either give up on or compromise their doctrines and beliefs while we keep ours intact just makes no sense.

Well, what makes us Catholic so special? What makes us exempt from having to change or reach a state of consensus with our Protestant brothers and sisters? Why should they be forced to cowtow to us?

Attitudes like that are egotistical and creepy.

Like I said before, we should stop focusing on what doctrines and practices separates us and instead focus on the real heart of our Churches, both Catholic and Protestant- GOD and the redeeming power of JESUS CHRIST, THE MESSIAH. The sooner we start doing that, the better.
Click to expand...
Egotistical and creepy? There’s no need for name calling.

What I’m saying is that the Catholic belief is that our religious dogma comes directly from Christ through the Church. It would be impossible for the Catholic Church to “change the rules” and remain Catholic. That’s why I said that it would be up to the other groups to change their practices for full Christian unity.
 
Oh goody, a two-fer.
40.png
Jabronie:
Egotistical and creepy? There’s no need for name calling.
Click to expand...
Ain’t calling you creepy or egotistical chief. However, attitudes like the ones you expounded upon are in my opinion just that.
40.png
Jabronie:
What I’m saying is that the Catholic belief is that our religious dogma comes directly from Christ through the Church. It would be impossible for the Catholic Church to “change the rules” and remain Catholic.
Click to expand...
…Uh-huh. Sooo, how do we explain the fact that we aren’t continuing the Crusades, starting some new Inquisitions, or engaging in other long since abandoned nonsense? One can keep tradition intact while adapting, changing and growing for the better. And let’s face it, there are some things that are in desparate need of change within our Church.
40.png
MrS:
So let’s get the leaders, only, together and they can decide each issue. Oooops… Jesus and Luther already met, and I venture to say, all was decided.
Click to expand...
Yup- Christ agreed with Luther that the practice of selling indulgences was stupid.
40.png
MrS:
The humans in protestanism can concede all they want to… they changed things once, twice… so do it again. But we don’t have that right inside the Church. Jesus alone set the rule, the procedure, the Truth, and then if you choose to walk away, He will let you. WE CANNOT COME TO CHRIST ON OUR TERMS.

There is not comprimise on the Truth, is there??
Click to expand...
Soooo, that means we Catholics alone have the direct line to Jesus Christ and what he desires and that our Protestant brothers and sisters are being deceived? I don’t buy that. Never have, never will. Matter of fact, that’s why I left my old church and why I think Jack Chick is as nutty as a candy bar!
 
40.png
LeftHandBlack:
And let’s face it, there are some things that are in desparate need of change within our Church.
Click to expand...
Hmmm…speaking of “egotistical and creepy”… 👋
 
One true Holy catholic and Apostolic Church and then 36,000 + protestan denominations . . enough said.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Hmmm…speaking of “egotistical and creepy”… 👋
Click to expand...
What? What’s so conceited about wanting some things changed for the better? What’s so conceited about (for example) believing that comprehensive and factual sex education being taught to people in impoverished countries could help stem the spread of AIDS and HIV? What’s conceited about wanting the Church to be a place where people feel welcome instead of vaguely ill at ease?
40.png
A.Pelliccio:
One true Holy catholic and Apostolic Church and then 36,000 + protestan denominations . . enough said.
Click to expand...
All that means to me is that we have a centrally organized and led Church. Just because we’re fortunate enough to have good folks in charge doesn’t mean we’re favored above all the other denominations of Christianity. We’re a good Church, yes, but what right do we have to put down Protestantism as a whole?
 
Ill make this more clear this time. We are the the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church founded by the Lord Jesus Christ himself and left in the hands of his servant St Peter, the first Pope. The Lord bestowed on Peter and his apostoles the power to forgive sins and instituted sacrements. This apostolic succession and tradition preserved the wests culture and science after the fall of Rome.
We hold the one true faith and are the complete revelation of God to man. The catholic faith is the only true (with the exception of some orthodox, but thats a differnt issue) supernatural religion because it contains devine revelation and santifying grace (her sacrements). The protestants are incomplete in their sacrements.

The schismatics were founded by a disgrunteld German nationalist priest in the 1500s. The man rewrote the vulgate to meet his ridiculious theologies and was insane. The pillars of our faith and our founder is stronger as opposed to a man who had fights with himself. We are superior to Protestants in our faith.
 
40.png
A.Pelliccio:
The catholic faith is the only true (with the exception of some orthodox, but thats a differnt issue) supernatural religion because it contains devine revelation and santifying grace (her sacrements). The protestants are incomplete in their sacrements. The schismatics were founded by a disgrunted German nationalist priest in the 1500s. We are superior to Protestants in our faith.
Click to expand...
Granted man, the Church continues to do a lot of righteous stuff. But are you insinuating that we’re superior in our faith because we have more stuff? More prestige?! That just smacks of elitist hogwash.

As for the sacraments- suppose we don’t have any bread or wine because of a great famine or something- would God fault us for not having communion because of something that was beyond our control? Would we be lesser in our faith? No, because faith in and devotion to our Lord Jesus Christ counts the most.

I do not believe in my heart of hearts that God likes us Catholics better than our Protestant brothers and sisters simply because they do things a bit differently that may annoy some groups of people here on Earth.

Because at the end of the day, when all is said and done, we all have to face God. And if you believe in Him, if you tried to do right in life, if you trust Him, then He will open his arms and pull you to his bosom, and you know what? He won’t care about what Church you spent your Sunday mornings in. All that will matter is that you have in your heart, in your mind, and in your spirit- FAITH.
 
“Granted man, the Church continues to do a lot of righteous stuff. But are you insinuating that we’re superior in our faith because we have more stuff? More prestige?! That just smacks of elitist hogwash.”

No, our faith is superior, because it is the only one established by God himself. All of the protestant denominations were started by Luther or Calvin, or someone else.

“As for the sacraments- suppose we don’t have any bread or wine because of a great famine or something- would God fault us for not having communion because of something that was beyond our control? Would we be lesser in our faith? No, because faith in and devotion to our Lord Jesus Christ counts the most.”

No God would not fault us for something beyond our control, but that dosen’t mean we shouldn’t recieve the sacraments if at all possible.

“I do not believe in my heart of hearts that God likes us Catholics better than our Protestant brothers and sisters simply because they do things a bit differently that may annoy some groups of people here on Earth.”

I agree that God loves all people equally, which is why he established the Catholic Church in the first place.God does not like us more because we are Catholics, but that doesn’t mean he dosen’t desire that everyone join the church that he suffered and died for.

“Because at the end of the day, when all is said and done, we all have to face God. And if you believe in Him, if you tried to do right in life, if you trust Him, then He will open his arms and pull you to his bosom, and you know what? He won’t care about what Church you spent your Sunday mornings in. All that will matter is that you have in your heart, in your mind, and in your spirit-”

I agree that once we get into heaven that won’t matter very much, but God set up the Church for a reason, to help people get into heaven. If a non-Catholic makes it to heaven it will be inspite of his/her religion not because of it. Also as protestants believe in salvation by faith alone they would disagree with you on “if you tried to do right in life”, and insist that all you need are the “believe in him” and “trust in him”
 
40.png
JP2ImissU:
If a non-Catholic makes it to heaven it will be inspite of his/her religion not because of it. Also as protestants believe in salvation by faith alone they would disagree with you on “if you tried to do right in life”, and insist that all you need are the “believe in him” and “trust in him”
Click to expand...
Arrrrrgh. How many more times must I spell it out?

In the grand scheme of things, religion- specifically which denomination of what is essentially THE SAME FAITH one belongs to amounts to BULL-HOCKEY. I was raised by a Protestant Mother and a Catholic Father ace, so I know what I’m talking about. And at the very core of my being is faith in GOD and his Son, JESUS CHRIST. Why should one not also strive to do right and be honorable in their actions? In doing so, we bring glory to the name of God and goodness to the world we live in and the people we share it with.

With this, I am done. I am done with this thread. If you guys want to bash Protestants for not sharing your particular beliefs, go right ahead and do it. Just realize that by doing this, you guys are acting no better than the fundamentalist zealots who say Catholicism is a cult. I hope and pray that you all soon see the light and become more accepting of our fellow Christians. Until then, have a nice life.
 
40.png
LeftHandBlack:
Arrrrrgh. How many more times must I spell it out?

In the grand scheme of things, religion- specifically which denomination of what is essentially THE SAME FAITH one belongs to amounts to BULL-HOCKEY. I was raised by a Protestant Mother and a Catholic Father ace, so I know what I’m talking about. And at the very core of my being is faith in GOD and his Son, JESUS CHRIST. Why should one not also strive to do right and be honorable in their actions? In doing so, we bring glory to the name of God and goodness to the world we live in and the people we share it with.

With this, I am done. I am done with this thread. If you guys want to bash Protestants for not sharing your particular beliefs, go right ahead and do it. Just realize that by doing this, you guys are acting no better than the fundamentalist zealots who say Catholicism is a cult. I hope and pray that you all soon see the light and become more accepting of our fellow Christians. Until then, have a nice life.
Click to expand...
I am a Protestant.
The last Presbyterian church I attended was considering a gay pastor.
Enough said.
 
40.png
LeftHandBlack:
Soooo, that means we Catholics alone have the direct line to Jesus Christ and what he desires and that our Protestant brothers and sisters are being deceived? I don’t buy that. Never have, never will. Matter of fact, that’s why I left my old church and why I think Jack Chick is as nutty as a candy bar!
Click to expand...
very well said. and very true. Since Jesus said “I will build My Church”, we understand that it is **His **(not Luthers, Calvin’s, Smith’s etc), that He will build it, not let a reformation re-design it, and there is only one, - **church **is singular!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top