Octuplets

[Magickman]

i was troubled by the story of the 33 year old California woman who recently gave birth to octuplets.

It was not merely the artificial manner in which she became pregnant, but also the sheer number of babies this single woman is raising.

Because of this woman’s incredible desire for motherhood, the larger society will bear the burden of millions of dollars for the children’s hospitalization, care, and feeding.

I think what she did was wrong.

What do you think?

 

[apromisemade]

Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was wrong. But I definately have issues with it.

I think there are definately mothers out there who have lots of kids just because it makes them happy. I have a friend who grew up with nine siblings and developed serious self esteem issues because she felt like her mom, having to take care of ten kids, never had enough time for her.

Also, having that many kids at once presents serious medical risks to mother and children. I remember there was another women a while back who made the news for having octoplets, and all eight of her babies died at a very young age, pretty much at the same time. The exact reason was undetermined but it was pretty much surmised it was from complications during the pregnancy.

 

[MarieVeronica]

My sister told me about this earlier. I wasn’t aware of it prior to today.

She (my sister) had watched some interview given by this woman, and her opinion was that this woman is suffering from some type of narcissism. When asked what she will be able to give to the children (she now has a total of 14 kids, under age 10; she has 6 other kids) she replied “ME! And how many OTHER parents are doing that??” (words to this effect). My sisters reaction was Because most parents are good and loving. They will also tell you that ONE infant, alone… is a full time job. This does suggest the question… of “how well” will these 14 small children and newborns be cared for?

Aside from that… we all know Catholic Church teaching on this subject; Artifical insemination, In vitro, “donor” cells and human cloning… ALL are considered immoral. Because, like abortion… they ALSO “tamper” with God’s absolute RIGHT… as Author of Life.

I’m not judging the woman, and my prayers are with them. But, I’m having a hard time understanding it.

 

[Sina]

I think the Doctors who followed through with the fertility treatments should have their licenses suspended or removed.

And of course I never agree with IVF. Nor sperm donation.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I think the root of the problem is IVF. Through IVF we are saying that we have the right to create humans, through means contrary to natural law, and at our own discretion. Her main problems are all linked to IVF. God has designed reproduction to be within marriage, with a mother and father (and accidents etc do occur where one of these may not be there for this child, but it is different then choosing this beforehand), 8 children are not conceived at once naturally, the body isn’t designed for that, etc etc…

I keep hearing the wrong arguments against this. One dr said IVF is supposed to be about choosing the one best embryo, not all. In fact, I thought it was good that she said no when doctors offered to abort some of the babies to reduce the number. She had said she did not want to leave any embryos frozen/ to be destroyed. She said she implanted 6 and 2 divided making them 8. The problem was creating all these embryos to begin with.

Large families can be healthy and beautiful, the problem isn’t the number, it is the circumstances (a single mom who decides to create life through IVF with the help of drs etc, to satisfy her own whims). Even the whole money thing isn’t as big a deal to me, I am not clear on all the details (did her parents claim bankruptcy or her, she says she has never been on welfare, she is getting offers left and right for books etc). It all boils down to IVF and the industry of creating people. That is the problem.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Large families can be healthy and beautiful, the problem isn’t the number, it is the circumstances (a single mom who decides to create life through IVF with the help of drs etc, to satisfy her own whims).

Exactly. Well said! :clapping:

 

[Simon_X]

i was troubled by the story of the 33 year old California woman who recently gave birth to octuplets.

It was not merely the artificial manner in which she became pregnant, but also the sheer number of babies this single woman is raising.

Because of this woman’s incredible desire for motherhood, the larger society will bear the burden of millions of dollars for the children’s hospitalization, care, and feeding.

I think what she did was wrong.

What do you think?

I agree, God help this woman and the children. But this is grossly wrong and creepy. Having eight children at a time due to artifical means just because they can do it does not make it okay and ethical.

This is very close to Frankenstien and Brave New World. Society and our culture will only suffer as familes and motherhood (boy am I sounding really old fashioned) are slowly escorted to the door.

 

[Sarabande]

The other thing about this situation that disturbs me is that all of her children were conceived through IVF. I’m happy that she didn’t go with aborting some of the babies when the doctors found out that she was having eight, but I feel that these doctors should have never agreed to do this especially if they looked at her history. I also heard on the news by other medical experts that it was unethical for these doctors to even implant 8 fertilized eggs into someone like her. Apparently, that is something which shouldn’t be done.

Like others, I think having a large family is wonderful, but with the way this woman is doing it, it just seems like she has some psychological issues which need to be addressed.

 

[RykerJ]

I watched her interview. She’s got alot of love for children but this is misdirected and blame the doc that did this. I think the mom is just that lonely inside.

 

[kage_ar]

This is what comes from our “reality show celebrity” culture. She wants to be famous, and figures this is her way to do it. Sad sad sad.

 

[mystified]

Shouldn’t the doctors in this case be held at least partially responsible, and be expected to help support these children?

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I agree with LifeIsBeautiful

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As for the drs. I have no idea why everyone is blaming them. It is not the job of drs to refuse treatment to someone based on how many kids they have, being single, or their finances (which can’t be that bad if she can afford IVF 6 times).

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It should also be noted that she didn’t plan to have 8 more. At best MOST of the time only 2 would have implanted. In fact, much of the time IVF results in zero.

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**Why is everyone saying this is the drs fault? What about the previous times she got IVF and had 2 - 5 children at home? Why was it okay when the result was 1 or 2 babies, but not now? **

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Should drs really be telling women they will refuse to give treatment if the woman already has … what 2 kids? Can she apply for an exception if she hasn’t had a daughter yet? What about if she’s remarried and wants kids with the new hubby?

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I don’t like this at all. I think IVF shouldn’t be an option for anyone. I 100% agree with the church teachings on this. And I think it’s bad medicine and there’s no health reason to do it.

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But the problem with these things is that once they are accepted as okay, then it’s okay for everyone.

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**I just see the attitude that drs should base treatment by screening the patient’s non-medically related private life as a VERY scary and slippery slope to start down. Oh my wonder how far I’d have to look to find an OB or midwife!? **

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**Just saying, all these issues could be avoided if folks followed the Catholic church on this. **

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And that as wacky as that lady might be, I’m not eager to change medical practice or laws based on the exceptional nut. It tends to result in bad legislation or unsound medical practice for the rest of the population.

 

[Sarabande]

I think the problem apparently is that the doctors are not supposed to implant that many fertilized eggs into a woman of her age. Basically, she was “too old” to have all of those eggs transferred into her. It takes two to tango, though. The doctors shouldn’t be given full blame for doing this. The woman wanted it and there are no laws against doing it. Just ethically-speaking from people I know who are in the medical field and what I heard from the doctor interviewed, the doctors probably should have chosen not to do it, instead of trying to persuade her to abort some of the children inside of her after they realized that 8 of them were going to go through.

 

[taylorc]

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**Just saying, all these issues could be avoided if folks followed the Catholic church on this. **

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Actually, my neighbors had quadruplets as a result of fertility drugs(which do not go against Church teaching).

 

[survive]

I suspect IVF never quite satisfies because when a mother loses a child she instinctively seeks to replace her lost child. A doctor makes six babies and kills five or lets them die; she is now a mother of six, five deceased and one still with her. She now wants five more kids on some level. The more she repeats the process the deeper the pain gets.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Actually, my neighbors had quadruplets as a result of fertility drugs(which do not go against Church teaching).

But in that case there is a stable marriage environment… not a single mother. The babies were conceived by the husband and wife, not in a petri dish.

 

[taylorc]

I suspect IVF never quite satisfies because when a mother loses a child she instinctively seeks to replace her lost child. A doctor makes six babies and kills five or lets them die; she is now a mother of six, five deceased and one still with her. She now wants five more kids on some level. The more she repeats the process the deeper the pain gets.

In this case the woman implanted all her embryos though. Not all take usually, but the same can be said for those conceived through intercourse. They had a fertility on Fox that said up to 75% of embryos conceived do not survive.

 

[taylorc]

But in that case there is a stable marriage environment… not a single mother. The babies were conceived by the husband and wife, not in a petri dish.

I agree. I was refering to the multiple birth part.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Should drs really be telling women they will refuse to give treatment if the woman already has … what 2 kids? Can she apply for an exception if she hasn’t had a daughter yet? What about if she’s remarried and wants kids with the new hubby?

I don’t like this at all. I think IVF shouldn’t be an option for anyone. I 100% agree with the church teachings on this. And I think it’s bad medicine and there’s no health reason to do it.

:tiphat:

**I just see the attitude that drs should base treatment by screening the patient’s non-medically related private life as a VERY scary and slippery slope to start down. Oh my wonder how far I’d have to look to find an OB or midwife!? **

Martha, we are 100% in total agreement with each other. I couldn’t have expressed it better.

I get so angry over all of the media talk about the doctor, and what’s “ethical” or not… The babies being a “drain on society” and all of the other anti-life nonsense being thrown around.

Matt Lauer interviewed 2 gentlemen (one a doctor, one an ethicist) who were talking about the necessity of strict screening of private lives, consideration of the number of children a mother already has, psychological health tests, and various other assessments to determine a mother’s “worthiness.”

I shudder to think of anyone legislating who can have children and how many we can have. If forced abortions/sterilizations ever become “the responsible thing to do” by the American government, I will be fleeing for the sake of my unborn children. :crying:

This whole thing makes me sick. And not, apparently, for the same reasons most other folks cite.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Martha, we are 100% in total agreement with each other. I couldn’t have expressed it better.

I get so angry over all of the media talk about the doctor, and what’s “ethical” or not… The babies being a “drain on society” and all of the other anti-life nonsense being thrown around.

Matt Lauer interviewed 2 gentlemen (one a doctor, one an ethicist) who were talking about the necessity of strict screening of private lives, consideration of the number of children a mother already has, psychological health tests, and various other assessments to determine a mother’s “worthiness.”

I shudder to think of anyone legislating who can have children and how many we can have. If forced abortions/sterilizations ever become “the responsible thing to do” by the American government, I will be fleeing for the sake of my unborn children. :crying:

This whole thing makes me sick. And not, apparently, for the same reasons most other folks cite.

I know… the ENTIRE situation, from the very thought of IVF, to the “reduction of embryos”, to the “worthiness” of the mother… Good God the WHOLE THING is just so wrong and sad.