Octuplets

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Quite frankly-I fail to understand all the anger and hostility and contempt that some of you so freely exude-what’s done is done -through God’s grace they are here and through God’s grace He will move through all this darkness in peoples hearts to help them-and if it comes in the way of a book,television,or movie deal or all three- more power to her-it will certainly eliminate the goivernment support argument…she didn’t plan on having eight more children-but-she did-the doctors may have played God- but God took it out of their hands and turned six into eight!-something that makes them TOTALLY unique in the world…and now-if none of you have nothing better to offer than self-righteous indignation and criticism perhaps you should look into your own hearts to see where this is coming from-at the very least pray for a workable solution and a life surrounded in love for each of these precious miracles and their siblings-AND their mother-let’s pray that she stays healthy and strong for them-you don’t know what each of them brings to the world-the least we all can do is to give them a beautiful welcome into it-instead of the ugliness that has surrounded them so far…and finally pray for all of us that are so quick to find fault in will full contempt- instead of finding resolution and offering it in kindness and love-…
 
Col40 said:
First–the church’s official stance on IVF is that it’s not allowed–primarily because it creates multiple embroyos that are often discarded. A priest’s “personal” opinion is not a church-sanctioned OK.
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True, but even if you could do IVF that created only 1 embryo, it would still be wrong. IVF is intrinsically wrong because it separates procreation from the marriage act, simple as that. It’s the flip side of the contraception coin. I admire the Church’s consistency in this area. Procreation without sex is wrong, just as sex that has been artificially deprived of its procreative aspect is wrong.
 
JCnMe said:
Quite frankly-I fail to understand all the anger and hostility and contempt that some of you so freely exude-what’s done is done -through God’s grace they are here and through God’s grace He will move through all this darkness in peoples hearts to help them-and if it comes in the way of a book,television,or movie deal or all three- more power to her-it will certainly eliminate the goivernment support argument…she didn’t plan on having eight more children-but-she did-the doctors may have played God- but God took it out of their hands and turned six into eight!-something that makes them TOTALLY unique in the world…and now-if none of you have nothing better to offer than self-righteous indignation and criticism perhaps you should look into your own hearts to see where this is coming from-at the very least pray for a workable solution and a life surrounded in love for each of these precious miracles and their siblings-AND their mother-let’s pray that she stays healthy and strong for them-you don’t know what each of them brings to the world-the least we all can do is to give them a beautiful welcome into it-instead of the ugliness that has surrounded them so far…and finally pray for all of us that are so quick to find fault in will full contempt- instead of finding resolution and offering it in kindness and love-…
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And you’re not being self-righteous??? Puh-lease. . give me a break. You just lectured and sorry–it’s not even on base. There is a right and a wrong with this situation–no one has argued that these babies aren’t welcome in this world. But there are some serious questions that need to be asked of the medical ethics involved in this. It’s part of a bigger issue that begs to ask if technology advancements allow something to happen that by passes what nature would otherwise dictate, in what situations should it be acceptable and to guidelines should be followed?

And yes, I think having babies to because the mother wants to fulfill some selfish needs is a sin in itself–I’m not saying the babies should be punished for their mother’s sin. . but I think there’s some bigger issues that need to be explored here.
 
Col40- already covered all that in the first post-…you must have missed it…my post was not self righteous- only meant to perhaps point out that some of the posters seem to be alittle short on the tolerance and loving thy neighbor scale-when they could be of much help in other more productive ways…at that point it’s between you and God -…if it seemed like it was directed at you-perhaps you need to pray on it…
 
JCnMe said:
Quite frankly-I fail to understand all the anger and hostility and contempt that some of you so freely exude-what’s done is done -through God’s grace they are here and through God’s grace He will move through all this darkness in peoples hearts to help them-and if it comes in the way of a book,television,or movie deal or all three- more power to her-it will certainly eliminate the goivernment support argument…she didn’t plan on having eight more children-but-she did-the doctors may have played God- but God took it out of their hands and turned six into eight!-something that makes them TOTALLY unique in the world…and now-if none of you have nothing better to offer than self-righteous indignation and criticism perhaps you should look into your own hearts to see where this is coming from-at the very least pray for a workable solution and a life surrounded in love for each of these precious miracles and their siblings-AND their mother-let’s pray that she stays healthy and strong for them-you don’t know what each of them brings to the world-the least we all can do is to give them a beautiful welcome into it-instead of the ugliness that has surrounded them so far…and finally pray for all of us that are so quick to find fault in will full contempt- instead of finding resolution and offering it in kindness and love-…
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Good post, and I agree. The hatefulness of people like Col40 is not appropriate. I don’t understand why people have such little ability to be flexibile in their thinking. They seem to think if we don’t punish this mother severely and make her life difficult then we will be “encouraging” more people to make these choices. What’s done is done and there are a lot of narcissitic mothers in the world. The family needs help, the rules regarding IVF need to be changed to prevent this from ever happening again, and the hatred and bashing need to STOP in the name of Jesus and his mercy.
 
Angels Unaware(((hugs)))…I think what most aren’t realizing is that science can only handle the “mechanics”-God decides the “life”…these children were meant to be here as a special group-or they wouldn’t be here…it’s that simple-…
 
For anyone who is interested…

Dr. Charmaine Yoest, President & CEO of Americans United for Life (AUL) and AUL Action (the organization behind FightFOCA.com), is scheduled to appear on CNN’s Larry King Live on Thursday, February 19 at 9:00 PM Eastern, 8 PM Central.

Charmaine is set to discuss the Nadya Suleman octuplet case.
 
Angels_Unaware said:
Good post, and I agree. The hatefulness of people like Col40 is not appropriate. I don’t understand why people have such little ability to be flexibile in their thinking. They seem to think if we don’t punish this mother severely and make her life difficult then we will be “encouraging” more people to make these choices. What’s done is done and there are a lot of narcissitic mothers in the world. The family needs help, the rules regarding IVF need to be changed to prevent this from ever happening again, and the hatred and bashing need to STOP in the name of Jesus and his mercy.
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HATEFULNESS?? I’m not being hateful—I couldn’t care less if she has 1 kid or 14 kids—I never said a WORD about punishing the mother–go re-read my posts and SHOW me were I said this mother should be punished…I think she is a total crack-pot, but I have never advocated punishing her and ESPECIALLY not her children. At most, I have said the publicity needs to end before some other emotionally disordered individual opts to try the same stunt (yes, I meant that exactly–trying to stuff as many embryos in your womb as you can and see how many babies make it is a STUNT). I think, however, the doctor’s license should be revoked for willfully putting the mother’s and babie’s lives in danger. I think that is TOTALLY appropriate to say–whether you agree with it or not!

I HAVE SAID CLEARLY THE BABIES ARE HERE NOW… CAN’T CHANGE THAT. But what we can change is that IVF is beginning to cross some medically ethical lines, in addition to moral lines that the CATHOLIC CHURCH has already denounced.

Now, if all of you who think that this is some “miracle” want to continue to lecture me about praying for my “hatefulness”–I ask you to return the favor in your judgement of those of us who see this for what it is–an act of irresponsiblity that by God’s grace had a happy ending. It might not have been that way…
 
She didn’t just have kids. She had a litter!!

And she wants TO BE A PSYCHOLOGIST!!
ROTFL!!! HAA!!

Life is stranger than fiction!
 
Col40 said:
HATEFULNESS?? I’m not being hateful—I couldn’t care less if she has 1 kid or 14 kids—I never said a WORD about punishing the mother–go re-read my posts and SHOW me were I said this mother should be punished…I think she is a total crack-pot, but I have never advocated punishing her and ESPECIALLY not her children. At most, I have said the publicity needs to end before some other emotionally disordered individual opts to try the same stunt (yes, I meant that exactly–trying to stuff as many embryos in your womb as you can and see how many babies make it is a STUNT). I think, however, the doctor’s license should be revoked for willfully putting the mother’s and babie’s lives in danger. I think that is TOTALLY appropriate to say–whether you agree with it or not!

I HAVE SAID CLEARLY THE BABIES ARE HERE NOW… CAN’T CHANGE THAT. But what we can change is that IVF is beginning to cross some medically ethical lines, in addition to moral lines that the CATHOLIC CHURCH has already denounced.

Now, if all of you who think that this is some “miracle” want to continue to lecture me about praying for my “hatefulness”–I ask you to return the favor in your judgement of those of us who see this for what it is–an act of irresponsiblity that by God’s grace had a happy ending. It might not have been that way…
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“Col40” I agree with these statements. I too, have been very worried about the “copycat” trend which could result from this.

Bottom line… IVF is morally unacceptable. It is no more acceptable, than abortion. The Catholic Church hasn’t budged on this, and never will. Praise God, the Church is the voice of truth. Human beings are not the “Authors of Life”. God is. We merely cooperate, in the Gift of Life process. And we can not come up with a “better way” than God’s Way.

We get ourselves into BIG trouble… when we think we can do anything BETTER than God. :nope:

BTW… sound familiar? It ought to. Go read Genesis 3:1-7… Adam and Eve thought there was a “better way”, too. And look where it has gotten us.

God bless.
 
Col40 said:
HATEFULNESS?? I’m not being hateful—I couldn’t care less if she has 1 kid or 14 kids—I never said a WORD about punishing the mother–go re-read my posts and SHOW me were I said this mother should be punished…I think she is a total crack-pot, but I have never advocated punishing her and ESPECIALLY not her children. At most, I have said the publicity needs to end before some other emotionally disordered individual opts to try the same stunt (yes, I meant that exactly–trying to stuff as many embryos in your womb as you can and see how many babies make it is a STUNT). I think, however, the doctor’s license should be revoked for willfully putting the mother’s and babie’s lives in danger. I think that is TOTALLY appropriate to say–whether you agree with it or not!

I HAVE SAID CLEARLY THE BABIES ARE HERE NOW… CAN’T CHANGE THAT. But what we can change is that IVF is beginning to cross some medically ethical lines, in addition to moral lines that the CATHOLIC CHURCH has already denounced.

Now, if all of you who think that this is some “miracle” want to continue to lecture me about praying for my “hatefulness”–I ask you to return the favor in your judgement of those of us who see this for what it is–an act of irresponsiblity that by God’s grace had a happy ending. It might not have been that way…
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Right, how could anyone possibly think there was anything the least bit hateful about your posts. :rolleyes: What with the ALL CAPS and the insults, (crackpot).

How does that help anything? How does your attitude help anything? Give me a break, you aren’t worried about “copycats” you are dumping on her because it makes you feel good about yourself.

I said help the family, including giving the mother whatever counseling she might need, and prevent it from happening again. But it would be nice if people would actually live like the compassionate and merciful people they claim to be and stop dumping on this woman.
Col40 said:
And you’re not being self-righteous??? Puh-lease. . give me a break. You just lectured and sorry–it’s not even on base. There is a right and a wrong with this situation–no one has argued that these babies aren’t welcome in this world. But there are some serious questions that need to be asked of the medical ethics involved in this. It’s part of a bigger issue that begs to ask if technology advancements allow something to happen that by passes what nature would otherwise dictate, in what situations should it be acceptable and to guidelines should be followed?

And yes, I think having babies to because the mother wants to fulfill some selfish needs is a sin in itself–I’m not saying the babies should be punished for their mother’s sin. . but I think there’s some bigger issues that need to be explored here.
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My take:

God love these children. They have done no wrong…

This story, however, causes me intense PAIN. I was the “Good Catholic Girl”. Who was not allowed to marry a blessed man, who had accepted Christ as his personal saviour. Who, by the way, became a Catholic with me as his RCIA sponsor.

My family did not permit us to marry becuase we would “live in a trailor and have retarded children”. And now I have married a “Good Catholoic Man” who decieved me about having children, and who “revealed” to me he has no intention of ever owning a home. How ironic. I am 36. I feel my life is over - my chance of belonging to “the human family” is over.

However, thie man I wanted to marry originally was a man of great personal faith, but becuase of my family "issues’ (mom died when I was 8, sister and dad were a bit “too much”), I broke off the engagement to spare him.

We wanted three children - to be baptizerd and raised Catholic. This man and I went to church together every weekend.

I was told that (by my family) that if we married, we would “live in a trailor and have retarded children” (because he was not “born” Catholic). Looks like I’ll end up there anyway…but I didn’t have to! I had the ring ON MY FINGER.

Meanwhile, my sister married a Methodist who openly voices his hatred of the church. Their son (and soon to arrive daughter) will NOT be baptized - much less raised Catholic (alghouth they were married in the Catholic church).

I have since married a man who, after our wedding vows, says he doesn’t want kids. I’m in SO MUCH PAIN - ESPECIALLY WHEN I SEE THIS EGREGIOUS DISRESPECT for the sancitity of the natural start of human life.

God bless those children - please do not punish them for the sins of their mother. My parents weren’t married in the church, which has lead to alot of suffering and pain on my part. I only (and have always) wanted a family where I belong…

My time likely has run out. Why is this? I don’t understand. If only I could find some joy in the suffering. I am truly sad…All I ever wanted in life was to belong to a family where I am loved and accepted - I would rather a husband who wanted children that we were unable to have…not this…not a man who deceived me and decided that our marriage is not to be a culture of love and life. It doess hurt. Why does God bless these types of “unholy” people, while excluding his faithful from the “healing balm of the human family”? ( and please forgive me for judging…but I’m a Ph.D. in mol bio, and I believe IVF is a sin.)
  • TK
 
Angels_Unaware said:
Right, how could anyone possibly think there was anything the least bit hateful about your posts. :rolleyes: What with the ALL CAPS and the insults, (crackpot).

How does that help anything? How does your attitude help anything? Give me a break, you aren’t worried about “copycats” you are dumping on her because it makes you feel good about yourself.

I said help the family, including giving the mother whatever counseling she might need, and prevent it from happening again. But it would be nice if people would actually live like the compassionate and merciful people they claim to be and stop dumping on this woman.
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This is a opinion post, not a collective prayer group, and my opinion is this woman is a publicity seeking self-indulgent individual who put herself and her children at risk. But if you re-read my post–I put the majority of the blame on her doctors as I do anything else. I believe it is as detrimental to the fetal development to implant 8 embryos in a woman’s uterus at one time as for a mother to drink alcohol or smoke during pregnancy. If a mother was to down a bottle of wine a day or smoke a carton of cigarettes a day during pregnancy–we would be decrying the dangers. Why not bring up the willful developmental dangers this woman brought on her children? And no, I’m not advocating selective abortion–I’m saying that if you know the outcome could be bad, why take the risks? Why endanger innocent unborn life?

And I don’t need to dump on anyone to feel good about myself…you need to take a good look in the mirror–you’ve sat in judgement of all of us who have expressed an opinion you didn’t agree with. And CAPS in not a reason to think I’m hateful…you’re doing a pretty good job of judging me, and others who agree with me with your self-righteousness about our beliefs.
 
I never saw a Brinks truck at a Funeral procession
Today was tomorrow yesterday.
Those who live in the future and deney themselves the joys of the present are as foolish as those who live in the past.
It is very foolish to worry about what might be or what might have been. It is a waste of time.
To worry that there might be copycat mothers is very foolish.
What can you do about it?

Antrim
 
(((((((Tigerkitty))))))… if he deceived you-talk to your Priest- you may be able to have the marriage annulled-God does not want you to suffer in silence with a loveless man who rules your life by deception… 36 is not the end of the line-you are finally smart enough and time- tested enough;) -to know what you want and not settle for less(((((hugs)))))…my prayers are with you honey- God Bless
 
JCnMe said:
(((((((Tigerkitty))))))… if he deceived you-talk to your Priest- you may be able to have the marriage annulled-God does not want you to suffer in silence with a loveless man who rules your life by deception… 36 is not the end of the line-you are finally smart enough and time- tested enough;) -to know what you want and not settle for less(((((hugs)))))…my prayers are with you honey- God Bless
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This I agree with you on, JCnMe…I really don’t think she’ll have trouble getting an annullment.
 
Col40…why are you arguing with everyone?..-the exact point you just tried to make- applies to YOU-…just agree to disagree instead turning everything into an affront to YOU-…it’s not all about YOU -so resist the urge to attack anyone who disagrees with YOU-your drama isn’t necessary to get your point across…
 
JCnMe said:
Col40…why are you arguing with everyone?..-the exact point you just tried to make- applies to YOU-…just agree to disagree instead turning everything into an affront to YOU-…it’s not all about YOU -so resist the urge to attack anyone who disagrees with YOU-your drama isn’t necessary to get your point across…
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It becomes personal when someone calls you directly “hateful”. But, whatever…
 
(((((Col40))))…the CAPS are like shouting-definitely changes the tone of the post…I haven’t posted often in the last year-and I’ll tell you why…when I joined the boards I wanted and expected them to feel like I had come “home”…like God giving you a hug-I have been Catholic my whole life-have a very close relationship with God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the Blessed Mother…and yet on these boards you find every variety of catholic and non-catholic who not only seem to want to love God-but at the same time they tend to attack others-…like that somehow makes them closer to God or if they “win” and are hurtful in the process-somehow God will love them more-like it’s a contest… it’s not…if everyone would just share who THEY are and reach out to one another instead of turning on one another-perhaps we actually would be emulating Jesus- and be the universal (Catholic) faith we all aspire to be… just my two cents.🤷 .((hugs)))God Bless
 
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