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twopekinguys
Guest
See, that perplexes me, and I would think it would others as well.
Why would God create beings to intentionally fail?
I just don’t get it?
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Why would God create beings to intentionally fail?
I just don’t get it?
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RebeccaJ
Guest
You and me both.
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Janderich
Guest
God never intended us to fail. But he did intend us to be seperated from Him for a time so that we might face challanges and grow. C.S. Lewis hit it on the head when he said, “For God is not merely mending, not simply restoring a status quo. Redeemed humanity is to be something more glorious than unfallen humanity would have been, more glorious than any unfallen race now is. . . . And this super-added glory will, with true vicariousness, exalt all creatures” ("The Grand Miracle,” Miracles: A Preliminary Study, 122–23)
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Porknpie
Guest
Janderich -
Your concept of God is the core problem with your statement. God, the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, has been with the Church…always, guiding it in truth. God has never been separated from the Church, ever.
- Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, to be with the Church after his leaving, to guide it to all truth.
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
2 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
- Jesus said he would be with his Church, always, until the end of time.
- Written scripture attests to the above as the Church membership grew greatly, guided by the Holy Spirit.
Janderich, how could the Lord add to the number? Jesus Christ had died. You are saying he was separated from the apostles. How can the apostles perform wonders and signs without God being with them?
God understood in light of the Trinity has always been with the Church…and has never been separated from it…in fact God was guiding the Church, protecting the Church and adding the number those who were saved.
No apostasy, ever.
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TexanKnight
Guest
That is not really true. “Adam fell that men might be”.
If Adam had not failed, according to your faith, we would have never existed. Adam would have been the only man. Well, Adam and God…both men…God being a sinful man and all…
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twopekinguys
Guest
Context, context, context.
CS Lewis was speaking from a point after man failed
As I mentioned in an earlier post, at least 2 previous mormon posters said God put us with with the **intention **for us to fail.
The two view points are light years apart.
Lewis’ statement about redeemed humanity being more glorious than any unfallen race can be compared to a line from the movie “Mommie Dearest”, when Christina is prompted to make the statement. “Adopted children are special because they are chosen”.
or
The story of the prodigal son. He went away, spent his inheritance, etc., and came back home. His father was overjoyed to see him, and celebrated his return.
Every parent, (we are God’s children), is thrilled when their wayward child comes home.
None of things compare to the mormon view that God **intended **for us to fail. In fact, I believe it was ParkerD who said that is why God gave man free will, so he would fail.
Do you see the difference between the two?
If the mormon god intended man to fail, then it just perpetuates the idea that you will become exalted, and made a god of your own world, have spirit kids, send them a savior, so men on that world can be exalted, and made god of his own world, etc. etc.
When Christ said, “It is finished”, He meant it. No more public revelation, no new saviors, no new worlds, no, no, no,. He meant it is all finished.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
This is doublespeak.
How is it that you think we are separated from God for a time, without God intending us to fail?
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gazelam
Guest
Well, you just rejected the entire New Testament. Being that CAF is a forgiving forum you may redo this last post.
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twopekinguys
Guest
I’m not sure you understood it.Well, you just rejected the entire New Testament. Being that CAF is a forgiving forum you may redo this last post.
Christ saying “It is finished” was at the crucifixion. How does that reject the entire New Testament?
I think you’ve made some sort of strange leap with this.
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twopekinguys
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TexanKnight
Guest
How does no new prophets undo New Testament? You are completely abusing his post.Well, you just rejected the entire New Testament. Being that CAF is a forgiving forum you may redo this last post.
Being that CAF is a forgiving forum you may redo your last post
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gazelam
Guest
All the New Testament was written after Christ’s cruxification. The New Testament would seem to fall in the “public revelation” category. One book, as I’m sure you’re aware is even called “Revelation” and it’s certainly public. That’s all. If you have a different definition of “public revelation” then you may see things differently. I lept from “public revelation” to canonized scripture.I’m not sure you understood it.
Christ saying “It is finished” was at the crucifixion. How does that reject the entire New Testament?
I think you’ve made some sort of strange leap with this.
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gazelam
Guest
Revelation 1:1 (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Gazelem, Jesus Christ is the Revelation of the NT. The books of the NT testify to God’s Word, Jesus Christ. This Revelation is not one of writing but that of a Person. The Revelation of Jesus Christ never ceases.
Since the Word of God is Jesus Christ, all is revealed in Him.
The book of Revelations contains John’s vision of what the Jews call shekinah. See Isaiah 60. It’s main theme is redemption, which is centered on Jesus Christ. It is set in the context of severe persecution of the early Church.
So it’s emphasis is Jesus Christ, a Person, Who is God’s perfect Word, revealed.
Since the Word of God is Jesus Christ, all is revealed in Him.
The book of Revelations contains John’s vision of what the Jews call shekinah. See Isaiah 60. It’s main theme is redemption, which is centered on Jesus Christ. It is set in the context of severe persecution of the early Church.
So it’s emphasis is Jesus Christ, a Person, Who is God’s perfect Word, revealed.
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Khalid
Guest
No, only the Reorganized LDS/Community of Christ consider the JST (the “Inspired Version”) Scripture. Regular LDS put extracts from it in the margins of their Bible as alternate readings, and parts of the JST Genesis in the Pearl of Great Price. Regular LDS/Mormons (CoJCoLDS) use the KJV, and are pretty much KJV-Only.
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Khalid
Guest
It’s so men could become gods and that our local god (Jehovah, pardon the blasphemy) could fulfill his duty given to him by his god, to create more gods, so that Jehovah’s eternal progression could continue. Pretty much when enough men become gods, the god that created (strike that, “fashioned”, as matter and spirit are co-eternal with all, according to Mormon theology) them gets a bump up to the next rung on the ladder of eternal progression.
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gazelam
Guest
So at the very least, saying “It is finished” is not meant by twopekinguys in a chronological sense. Is that fair? It’s a great thing CAF is a forgiving forum!
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TexanKnight
Guest
Yes…we show that by forgiving all the versions of Joseph’s first vision, all the HORRIBLE things your leader and “prophets” said about blacks, all the failed prophesies, the humanizing of God, etc.
So, come home to the truth!
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Gazelam, all the Bible testifies to our Redemption. When Jesus, on the Cross, said it is finished, He meant, it is finished.
HE is God’s Word REVEALED. He left nothing out. There is nothing left for God to say, because He has said it all, in the Person of Jesus Christ. Look to Jesus, not to another novelty. Jesus Christ is the fullness of God’s Word because He is God’s Word.
The chronology is laid out for you in the Bible, culminating in Jesus Christ.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Exactly
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