% of Eastern Catholics of each Sui Juris Particular Chruch

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The largest eastern catholic church is Ukranian in terms of population. That is why they have patriarchal status. The second largest is syro malabar.
 
I suppose it depends on what context you are using the term “Ruthenian” which has multiple meanings and connotations. If you are using this term in the original sense that Rome employed it, namely as* Ruthenorum *or the people of Rus’, then yes, it is the largest as that would be combining the UGCC (the largest) with several others. But if using it in the sense to describe the “Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh” it is far down the list in size.

The UGCC is the largest, followed by the Syro-Malabar.
 
The largest eastern catholic church is Ukranian in terms of population. That is why they have patriarchal status. The second largest is syro malabar.
Yes, sorry. The main point I was trying to focus on was that I had heard that the Ruthenian was the largest of the Eastern Churches. I am wondering why someone thought that. Is there some other way of ordering the Eastern Churches. I have heard Byzantine Catholic Churches mentioned and I don’t see that on the list at all.
 
I’m not big on “pie charts” but even that shows the UGCC as the largest. Numerically, the Syro_Malabars are 2nd.

I’m not sure what criteria are used, but from some of the percentages shown, it would seem that non-registered (or non-practicing) folks are included for some of the Churches but not for others. And I somehow think the Chaldeans are under-represented in the chart.
 
Yes, sorry. The main point I was trying to focus on was that I had heard that the Ruthenian was the largest of the Eastern Churches. I am wondering why someone thought that. Is there some other way of ordering the Eastern Churches. I have heard Byzantine Catholic Churches mentioned and I don’t see that on the list at all.
The term “Ruthenorum” or Ruthenian is equivalent to the term “Rusyn”… The UGCC and the Ruthenian Catholic Church (Both in Europe and the US) are all “Rusyn”, as are a couple other, smaller, Eastern Catholic Slavic Churches… but the term Ruthenian has come to mean the Carpetho-Rusyns* alone, a small subset of Rusyns.

*Well, the Church which was Carpetho-Rusyns when it came into Union with Rome and has since become two distinct groups, the original eparchy in Europe, and the Metropolia in the US
 
The term “Ruthenorum” or Ruthenian is equivalent to the term “Rusyn”… The UGCC and the Ruthenian Catholic Church (Both in Europe and the US) are all “Rusyn”, as are a couple other, smaller, Eastern Catholic Slavic Churches… but the term Ruthenian has come to mean the Carpetho-Rusyns* alone, a small subset of Rusyns.

*Well, the Church which was Carpetho-Rusyns when it came into Union with Rome and has since become two distinct groups, the original eparchy in Europe, and the Metropolia in the US
Let the Rusyns themselves tell you who they are…

c-rs.org/whoarerusyns.htm
 
I’m not big on “pie charts” but even that shows the UGCC as the largest. Numerically, the Syro_Malabars are 2nd.

I’m not sure what criteria are used, but from some of the percentages shown, it would seem that non-registered (or non-practicing) folks are included for some of the Churches but not for others. And I somehow think the Chaldeans are under-represented in the chart.
I don’t even see us Russians on there at all, granted we are very tiny.
 
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Ignatius:
Yes, sorry. The main point I was trying to focus on was that I had heard that the Ruthenian was the largest of the Eastern Churches. I am wondering why someone thought that. Is there some other way of ordering the Eastern Churches. I have heard Byzantine Catholic Churches mentioned and I don’t see that on the list at all.
The term “Ruthenorum” or Ruthenian is equivalent to the term “Rusyn”… The UGCC and the Ruthenian Catholic Church (Both in Europe and the US) are all “Rusyn”, as are a couple other, smaller, Eastern Catholic Slavic Churches… but the term Ruthenian has come to mean the Carpetho-Rusyns* alone, a small subset of Rusyns.

*Well, the Church which was Carpetho-Rusyns when it came into Union with Rome and has since become two distinct groups, the original eparchy in Europe, and the Metropolia in the US
Thanks. What about the Byzantine Catholics, I don’t see that on the Chart?
 
Thanks. What about the Byzantine Catholics, I don’t see that on the Chart?
Byzantine Catholic is a very LOADED term.
Properly, it means ANY of the 14 churches sui iuris of the Byzantine Rite.

However, the Metropolia of Pittsburgh has dropped the ethnic portion of its name; The Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh is the American chunk of the Ruthenian Catholic Church, aka (rarely) the Carpetho-Rusyn Greek Catholic Church or Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church.
 
The term “Ruthenorum” or Ruthenian is equivalent to the term "Rusyn
It most certainly is not “equivalent”. It is a common error to equate these two terms, one ecclesiological/liturgical and the other sociological/ethnic.

There are several historical contexts of the term “Ruthenorum” and it is a complex term at best. One common context is as a very general ecclesiological descriptive for all the people of baptismal heritage of Rus’, which includes historically all of the Kyivan Metropolia, surrounding territories as well as Trans-Carpathian areas (although some of these claim Cyrillo-Methodian baptismal heritage). Thus this term is much, much broader than “Rusyn”. The use of this term is already in place during the negotiations for the Union of Brest, which was ratified and in place half a century before the Union of Uzhorod which specifically involved a large portion of the Rusyn Greek Catholic Church.

A second general use of this term is a somewhat related liturgical context used when promulgating the standard rescension. The use of “Ruthenorum” and “Ruthenian” in the liturgical sense is in the documents of Zamosc and L’viv. Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky preferred this term to convey the fact that the liturgical books had wider application than simply the Galician or Kyivan Greek Catholics.

One more recent complication in the use of this term, which was not historically consistent with Rome’s use of this term, arose in the US when the Slovak, Transcarpathian and Hungarian Greek Catholics of Rusyn heritage petitioned to have a separate hierarchy from that originally established through +Soter Ortynsky. The first Exarch of these Rusyn Greek Catholics (and later Metropolitan), Basil Takach, took the term “Ruthenian” to describe his ecclesiological entity as distinct from the successor of +Soter, +Constantine Bohachevsky, who took the term “Ukrainian Greek Catholic” to describe his ecclesiological identity as Ukraine was at that time in the early 1920s independent and the home See of Halych (from which originated +Soter) was within the independent Ukraine.

In Priashiv, Uzhorod and Hajdugorog they call themselves “Greek Catholics” of whatever particular Eparchy and not “Ruthenian”. They may identify themselves as of Rusyn origin, but the term “Ruthenian” is seldom if ever heard there.
 
The term “Ruthenorum” or Ruthenian is equivalent to the term “Rusyn”… The UGCC and the Ruthenian Catholic Church (Both in Europe and the US) are all “Rusyn”, as are a couple other, smaller, Eastern Catholic Slavic Churches… but the term Ruthenian has come to mean the Carpetho-Rusyns* alone, a small subset of Rusyns.
I have to agree with Father Deacon Diak that Ukrainian is not Rusyn. There seems to be some confusion over the terms “Ruthenian” vs. “Rusyn” vs. “Russky” - they are not equivalent in history. Ruteny may have been applied to the people of the ethnic lands in Ukraine during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and under Austria-Hungary. But by the 19th Century the term “Ukraine” and “Ukrainian” were becoming the standard name for the ethno-linguistic Ukrainians, whether ruled under Tsarist Russia (Eastern and Central Ukraine), or Halychyna and Bukovina (under Austria-Hungary).

“Rusyns” and “Ruthenians” Today have basically come to denote people tracing their roots to Sub-Carpathian Rus’ and contiguous areas, but not all. It is mostly Professor Paul Robert Magocsi of U of T who argues that the Rusyns of Subcarpathia -Zakarpattia - could lay claim to being a distinct ethnic group vis-a-vis Ukrainians, but most people in Zakarpattia today would call themselves Ukrainian.

Ukrainians have stuck with the appellation Ukrainian while those who emigrated from Zakarpattia to North America at the turn of the 19th Century stuck with the term Rusyn from which today’s Ruthenian Church comes. The Ukrainian Catholic Church is not the same body.

To complicate matters more, as Magocsi wrote, in Zakarpattia there were 3 different groups vying for primacy in nation-building: the old Ruthenians (old-style), the Rusyny, and the Ukrainians. By the 1930s it seemed Zakarpattia had become Ukrainian under Father Voloshyn who was a Ukrainian patriot. The Rusyny in North America however remained Ruthenians and not Ukrainians in nomenclature.

Magocsi still travels to Zakarpattia arguing for a separate Rusyn nation I believe.

Long story short the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the largest of the Eastern Catholic Churches while the Ruthenian Catholic Church is a separate body, though in the past it would have been nice if our ancestors could have come to a common understanding. Oh well, this is what you get when a country like Ukraine gets ruled by 4 separate empires/countries at times in its history.

I hope this makes sense and not offense but I guess this is a pretty unknown part of Eastern European history. 🙂
 
This is great info; I love this. So, if my grandparents came from Slovakia, what would be my most likely ancestral Church Sui Juris here in the US? My folks have all passed away and I have known only the Roman Church but would like to learn more about my ancestral Church.
 
This is great info; I love this. So, if my grandparents came from Slovakia, what would be my most likely ancestral Church Sui Juris here in the US? My folks have all passed away and I have known only the Roman Church but would like to learn more about my ancestral Church.
Hmm. I know in Canada the Slovak Greek Catholics have their own eparchy. If your grandparents were from Slovakia, they could have still have been Roman Catholics as many Slovaks were and are Roman Catholic. Do you know if they were Byzantine Catholic and not Roman?
 
This is great info; I love this. So, if my grandparents came from Slovakia, what would be my most likely ancestral Church Sui Juris here in the US? My folks have all passed away and I have known only the Roman Church but would like to learn more about my ancestral Church.
Father deacon Diak is correct to point out that Ruthenian refers to the liturgical recension (version of liturgical texts used), which then could also apply to the Ukrainian and Belorussian Catholic churches (the Belorussian CC is very small now). The word 'Ruthenian seems to be a Latin language term for the Rus people in general, this could possibly mean anyone of an East-Slavic ancestry. In liturgical terms it refers to those who came into union with the Pope after the agreements at Brześć (1696AD) and Uzhgorod (1646AD).

Interestingly, the Russian Catholic church does not use the Ruthenian Recension in it’s liturgy, it uses the Nikonian recension for the most part.

The Ruthenians known to us as such, were mostly Greek Catholics who migrated to the USA from the Austro-Hungarian empire. It think that the Austro-Hungarian empire had a much higher ‘quota’ for immigrants than the Russian empire did, and it just so happens that most of the eastern rite Christians in that conglomerate state were Greek Catholics.

As far as possible eastern Christian populations are concerned the Austrian portion included Galicia, which was taken when Poland was partitioned and most of Galicia was populated by Ukrainians (and the rest were Poles). The Hungarian portion included the ethnic nationalities of Slovak, Hungarians, Croatians, Serbs, Romanians and the Rusyn people.



In the USA when Rome separated these congregations from the Latin dioceses they were placed under an administrator (the Ukrainian bishop Soter Stephan Ortynskyj), all of these various groups followed the Ruthenian recension and could collectively be termed “Ruthenians” in a liturgical sense. Most congregations were ethnically mixed, but their tended to be at least one group which had more members than the rest. Often the majority in a congregation were Ukrainians from Galicia, but in some places it was Slovaks, in others it was Hungarians and some were presumably too mixed to say. The bishops were interested in this because they wanted to serve the flocks as well as possible by appointing a priest the majority of faithful could agree with.

There was some bad blood between the Galicians and the sub-Carpathian faithful, which seems to go back to the situation in Europe. It might be fair to say that there were some struggles over the control of parishes and other issues, and the priests were divided ethnically as well.

Eventually (1914AD) Rome sent two administrators, one for the Galicians(the Very Reverend Peter Poinatyshin) and one for the rest (the Very Reverend Gabriel Martyak), although they seem to have worked in tandem. Later, Rome established two eparchies of overlapping territorial jurisdiction, one in Philadelphia for the Ukrainian Galicians (bishopConstantine Bohachevskyj) and one in Pittsburgh (bishop Basil Takach) for all the rest.

The Galician diocese of Philadelphia became better known as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church. The other diocese at Munhall (Pittsburgh) continued to be popularly called the Ruthenian church, perhaps because it was not convenient to call it the ‘Slovak-Hungarian-Rusyn-Croatian & misc. Greek Catholic church’ 😉 .
 
As I said before, Ruthenian has come to mean Carpetho-Rusyn; the CR Greek Catholic Tradition is known formally as Ruthenian.

The Term itself originally was not liturgical, but ethnic, despite Fr. Deacon Diak’s upset about it. Ruthenia was used in latin to refer to the Kievan Rus as well as the Subcarpethian Rus. The liturgical recension names, as with most Byzantine Rite ones, are ethnic in origin.

Ruthenium, Ruthenia, Ruthenian, these all are latin forms of Rusyn and Rus. The term has, since the 1400’s, narrowed considerably to it’s present ethnic and recension uses.

According to Websters
Zakarpats’ka is a synonym of Ruthenia and Carpethian-Ruthenia, and is a geographical term for the subcarpethian region of the Ukraine.

According to the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia
(Ruthenian and Russian: Rusin, plural Rusini)
A Slavic people from Southern Russia, Galicia and Bukowina in Austria, and North-eastern Hungary. They are also called in Russian, Malorossiani, Little Russians (in allusion to their stature), and in the Hungarian dialect of their own language, Russniaks. They occupy in Russia the provinces or governments of Lublin (Poland), Volhynia, Podolia, Kieff, Tehernigoff, Kharkoff, and Poltava, in Russia, and number now about 18,000,000. In Austria they occupy the whole of Eastern Galicia and Bukowina, and in Hungary the northern and north-eastern counties of Hungary: Szepes, Saros, Abauj, Zemplin, Ung, Maramaros, and Bereg, and amount to about 4,500,000 more. The Ruthenians along the borderland of the ancient Kingdom of Poland and the present boundary separating Austria from Russia proper are also called Ukrainians (u, at or near, and krai, the border or land composing the border), from the Ukraine, comprising the vast steppes or plains of Southern Russia extending into Galicia. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire the Ruthenians are separated from one another by the Carpathian Mountains, which leave one division of them in Galicia and the other in Hungary. The Ruthenians or Little Russians in Russia and Bukowina belong to the Greek Orthodox Church, whilst those of Galicia and Hungary are Greek Catholics in unity with the Holy See. For this reason the word Ruthenian has been generally used to indicate those of the race who are Catholics, and Little Russian those who are Greek Orthodox, although the terms are usually considered as fairly interchangeable. It must be remembered that in the Russian and Ruthenian languages (unlike in English) there are two words which are often indiscriminately translated as Russia, but which have quite different meanings. One is Russ, which is the generic word denoting an abstract fatherland and all who speak a Russo-Slavic tongue, who are of Russo-Slavic race and who profess the Greek-Slavonic Rite; it is of wide and comprehensive meaning. The other word is Rossia, which is a word of restricted meaning and refers only to the actual Russian Empire and its subjects, as constituted today. The former word Russ may be applied to a land or people very much as our own word “Anglo-Saxon” is to English or Americans. It not only includes those who live in the Russian Empire, but millions outside of it, who are of similar race or kin, but who are not politically, religiously, or governmentally united with those within the empire. From the word Russ we get the derivative Russky, which may therefore be translated in English as “Ruthenian” as well as “Russian”, since it is older than the present Russian Empire. From Rossia we have the derivative Rossiisky, which can never be translated otherwise than by “Russian”, pertaining to or a native of the Russian Empire. Indeed the word “Ruthene” or “Ruthenian” seems to have been an attempt to put the word Rusin into a Latinized form, and the medieval Latin word Ruthenia was often used as a term for Russia itself before it grew so great as it is today.
 
There was some bad blood between the Galicians and the sub-Carpathian faithful, which seems to go back to the situation in Europe. It might be fair to say that there were some struggles over the control of parishes and other issues, and the priests were divided ethnically as well.
I believe a lot of the misunderstanding between Galician Ukrainians and those from Subcarpathia came from the fact that both came from different environments in Austria-Hungary. The Galicians fell into that portion of the Austro-Hungarian Empire ran by the Austrians where the Poles had more of a say in things.

Subcarpathia was administered by the Hungarians. Each approached the minority nations within the empire in different ways. For the Galicians, Polonization was the worry. In Subcarpathia it was Magyarization.

Paul Robert Magocsi of the University of Toronto, who I believe considers himself a Rusyn, not too long ago edited a book on Metropolitan Andrei Sheptytsky of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. One of the contributions to Magocsi’s book was by Athanasius Pekar on “Sheptytsky and the Carpatho-Ruthenians in the United States”, in which the author writes:

The…decisive reason for division between the Carpatho-Ruthenians and the Ukrainians in the United States was the planned interference of the Hungarian government in the national and religious life of the immigrants. This interference was aimed at isolating Carpatho-Ruthenians from their Galician brothers in order to prevent a national awakening. At a time of intensive magyarization among Carpatho-Ruthenians in Europe, the Hungarian government feared that on their return home these emigrants would frustrate official efforts to make them into ‘Hungarians’. To achieve its assimilatory goals, the Hungarian government used the services not only of its own diplomatic officials and consular agents, but also turned to the magyarized Carpatho-Ruthenian clergy who, before leaving for the United States, were compelled to take a special oath of loyalty to the Hungarian government and, for their patriotic services received financial support

History is history though. I believe the important thing obviously is the Church and worship, no matter the appellation we Ukrainians or Rusyns now use. 🙂
 
According to the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia
(Ruthenian and Russian: Rusin, plural Rusini)
A Slavic people from Southern Russia, Galicia and Bukowina in Austria, and North-eastern Hungary. They are also called in Russian, Malorossiani, Little Russians (in allusion to their stature), and in the Hungarian dialect of their own language, Russniaks. They occupy in Russia the provinces or governments of Lublin (Poland), Volhynia, Podolia, Kieff, Tehernigoff, Kharkoff, and Poltava, in Russia, and number now about 18,000,000. In Austria they occupy the whole of Eastern Galicia and Bukowina, and in Hungary the northern and north-eastern counties of Hungary: Szepes, Saros, Abauj, Zemplin, Ung, Maramaros, and Bereg, and amount to about 4,500,000 more. The Ruthenians along the borderland of the ancient Kingdom of Poland and the present boundary separating Austria from Russia proper are also called Ukrainians (u, at or near, and krai, the border or land composing the border), from the Ukraine, comprising the vast steppes or plains of Southern Russia extending into Galicia. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire the Ruthenians are separated from one another by the Carpathian Mountains, which leave one division of them in Galicia and the other in Hungary. The Ruthenians or Little Russians in Russia and Bukowina belong to the Greek Orthodox Church, whilst those of Galicia and Hungary are Greek Catholics in unity with the Holy See. For this reason the word Ruthenian has been generally used to indicate those of the race who are Catholics, and Little Russian those who are Greek Orthodox, although the terms are usually considered as fairly interchangeable. It must be remembered that in the Russian and Ruthenian languages (unlike in English) there are two words which are often indiscriminately translated as Russia, but which have quite different meanings. One is Russ, which is the generic word denoting an abstract fatherland and all who speak a Russo-Slavic tongue, who are of Russo-Slavic race and who profess the Greek-Slavonic Rite; it is of wide and comprehensive meaning. The other word is Rossia, which is a word of restricted meaning and refers only to the actual Russian Empire and its subjects, as constituted today. The former word Russ may be applied to a land or people very much as our own word “Anglo-Saxon” is to English or Americans. It not only includes those who live in the Russian Empire, but millions outside of it, who are of similar race or kin, but who are not politically, religiously, or governmentally united with those within the empire. From the word Russ we get the derivative Russky, which may therefore be translated in English as “Ruthenian” as well as “Russian”, since it is older than the present Russian Empire. From Rossia we have the derivative Rossiisky, which can never be translated otherwise than by “Russian”, pertaining to or a native of the Russian Empire. Indeed the word “Ruthene” or “Ruthenian” seems to have been an attempt to put the word Rusin into a Latinized form, and the medieval Latin word Ruthenia was often used as a term for Russia itself before it grew so great as it is today.
Yes but Aramis that is from 1917. At the time of writing there was deep confusion in the West not just towards Eastern Catholicism but also to the subject nations of European Empires. For instance, in Canada, thousands of Ukrainian immigrants were actually interned during this time of the First World War in camps because they hailed from Austria-Hungary. Government officials feared Ukrainian support for Austria-Hungary which was absolutely absurd as Ukrainians in Canada were actually fighting in the thousands for Canada during WW1. But officials saw Austria on birth certificates and automatically assumed such peoples of being foreign agents, even though Ukrainians emigrated to escape the empire and had no connection to Austrians, but pledged loyalty to Canada and helped build the Canadian West. Truly sad misunderstanding of ethnicity. The Canadian government now admits it was a terrible mistake.
 
Andrew: the term Ruthenian was, until after WWII, synonymous with Rusyn. It’s still listed as a synonym in the dictionaries I have to hand, and Rusyn was a general term in that same time frame.

My undergrad is in Russian history. All the historical use of the term Rusyn & Rus I’ve seen is generalized; The Kievan Rus, the Byelorus, the Subcarpethian Rus, the “Great Rus” (Russians). It’s not quite synonymous with Slav, but comes pretty close to being a majority subset.

The current use is a post WWII narrowing, where it now means almost exclusively the Carpetho-Rusyns and/or the Kyivan Church’s Recension.
 
The current use is a post WWII narrowing, where it now means almost exclusively the Carpetho-Rusyns
Yes, I studied this history in undergrad too. The historical Rus’ even led the late Omeljan Pritsak of Harvard University to attempt a multi-volume Origin of Rus’. Kyivan Rus’ with its capital in Kyiv was the historic capital of the East Slavic State from which came the Ukrainian, Belarus, and Russian peoples later. Mykhailo Hrushevsky covers the territory in his History of Ukraine-Rus’, multivolume, now translated into English.

The point however is that Rusyn and Ruthenian by and large now in modern use is an archaic term, barring ONE major exception: the people who emigrated from Subcarpathia to the U.S.A. at the turn of the last century. That is mostly it. It was also at the turn of the century when modern Ukrainian nation-building was reaching its culmination. In the 19th Century, because of the multitudinous rulers of Ukrainian territory, Ukraine went through something by no means unique in European history: nation-building without a state. In the 19th century often the term Rusyn’ was used in the 1848 springtime of nations, even in Galicia of course.

Foreign powers would often set up reading houses in their own languages on Ukrainian lands to attempt to entice the locals to their own cause. For instance, in Galicia and in Bukovina, then under Austria, tsarist Russia poured in tons of money into Kachkovsky societies and reading houses to plant Russophile culture. It failed as people stuck with Ukrainian. People until the turn of the 20th Century in Ukraine, especially in the rural areas, would often use their province to describe themselves: Volhynianyn, Halychanyn, Bukovinets’, Zakarpatskyi’ Rusyn, Lemko, Boiko, Maloros, Poltavets’, etc. However, by the end of the First World War, this all became Ukrainian as borders fell down and the people realized they shared a common language and culture. Even Subcarpathia Rus’, under the Czechs, in the interwar period naturally became Ukrainian, while the emigration in the USA remained crystallized in the pre-WW1 appellation of Rusyn’ which sticks to this day. This is by no means unique. Lots of immigrations remain sealed ethno-linguistically in the state they left the old country in, even after the old country “progresses” otherwise, for lack of a better term. I by no means say this is bad. I am entirely familiar with how this worked out in the 19th Century. It is to be admired.

Velyka (Large) Ukraina under Tsarist Russia came first in nation-building with Shevchenko giving it its standardized literal language, followed by Ivan Franko in Western Ukraine. People like Vasyl Stefanyk would add the local dialect in stories however. I read Patchunky’s materials and newspapers to which was linked and I can understand the language. Some would argue it’s a dialect of Ukrainian, others not.

The thing with Subcarpathian Rus’ is that it, of all “Ukrainian” ethno-linguistic territory, remained separate from the neighboring Ukrainian territories for some 900 years on the other side of the Carpathian mountains where the Hungarians ruled. Nevertheless, by the 1930s, the people there considered themselves Ukrainians. The grandparents who had emigrated to the U.S. two generations before stuck with the term Rusyn’ and Ruthenian. Perfectly understandable.

Today, Subcarpathia, or Zakarpattia, unfortunately, is the poorest oblast’ (region) in Ukraine. I know this because when people from the diaspora go to help the orphanages in Ukraine, some of which are still run in the old Soviet mentality, Zakarpattia needs the most help. In the 1980s as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church was coming out of the catacombs, I met leaders of the Church from Subcarpathia. They considered themselves Ukrainian and spoke the language as I. It is just a natural process.

The problem with people who put the Lemkos in with the Rusyns for instance into one ethnic group as some of the maps show, is that the Lemkos spoke and speak a totally different dialect of Ukrainian so it is no use putting them in the same group as I believe Magocsi does in his maps. Lemkos went on to live under Poland after WW1. They don’t use the “l” in consonants but “w” like the Poles, among other things.

This is interesting stuff, but of course, I am not sure what it is exactly we disagree on if anything after posting this doctoral dissertation. I agree Ruthenian and Rusyn’ was a term used in the past by and for certain Ukrainians, but is now used almost exclusively for the same-named Church and faithful in the USA and by the people in Priashivshchyna in Slovakia I believe as well.

I have no argument. 🤷 😃
 
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