OF form experience

[h1478971]

I went today Saturday to the evening OF Mass where I am vacationing since I am not able to attend the TLM Mass conveniently where I am staying. I am a regular EF Mass attendee at a FSSP Church. In the OF Mass today they did Baptisms right before Mass and the priest was cracking jokes after he did it and then the Family brought the girl to the altar and the priest carried her and sat her down at the altar I was appaled. And then everyone started clapping while the priest played around with her. Then the cantor, a woman, would outstretch her hands out wide when singing like the responsorial psalm and the Acclamation after the Consecration to guitar and piano accompaniment. Then most of the women were not dressed modestly and without the chapel veil. Also there were about 10 euacharistic ministers,including women who I think were not dressed very modestly, giving out communion. Also during the consecration the priest consecrated a HUGE host out of a straw like basket instead of a gold paten and he did not raise it he only elevated it slightly and bowed instead of genuflecting. I do not think he had bum legs. There were also no bells at the consecration etc. Also the eaucharistic ministers were giving communion from clear glass plates and the priest from the basket. The wine was distributed on cups that did not appear like gold chalices.

The OF Mass has more of a festive atmosphere than the EF Mass. EF Mass is more conducisve to reverence and meditation while the OF one is not.

PS The Ode to Joy was played before and after baptism. My protestant cousin said that they do baptisms during their services that’s a big simmilarity.

Also the church building looked like a Baptist mega church.

 

[Timothysis]

Let me ask you this; if you went to a “EF Mass” and the priests made jokes before, during or after, had a saxophone playing during the responses and everyone in the congregation had a balloon, would you say that the *EF has a more festive atmosphere while the the OF is more conducise to reverence? *

The world is not perfect and, apparently, neither is the Church. While I know that the celebration of Mass can vary widely by parish I don’t think it correct or fair to make such broad generalizations such as the “OF has a more festive atmosphere,” which is, really, an ignorant thing to say. A “festive” priest could do the same with the EF; it does not follow, however, that we could say that the EF is a more “festive” form than the OF. There are many reverent celebrations of the Ordinary Form of the Mass. Just because you witnessed one that was not does not mean that you can objectively determine that "the OF Mass has more of a festive atmosphere than the EF Mass. EF Mass is more conducisve to reverence and meditation while the OF one is not."

 

[Moscati]

Ookay . . . I went to the EF last month, and the homily was awful. In fact, it wasn’t a homily at all, just a few sentences, spoken at light speed, that had absolutely nothing to do with the readings. Thus . .

“The EF Mass is not conducive to a learned, theologically appropriate homily. EF Mass encourages memorization and blind repetition rather than study and teaching.”

Do you see how silly this sounds? You went to a Mass that had some serious problems. That’s a shame, and it shouldn’t be happening. But it’s not a particularly convincing argument for your sweeping generalizations.

 

[CWBetts]

Ookay . . . I went to the EF last month, and the homily was awful. In fact, it wasn’t a homily at all, just a few sentences, spoken at light speed, that had absolutely nothing to do with the readings. Thus . .

“The EF Mass is not conducive to a learned, theologically appropriate homily. EF Mass encourages memorization and blind repetition rather than study and teaching.”

Do you see how silly this sounds? You went to a Mass that had some serious problems. That’s a shame, and it shouldn’t be happening. But it’s not a particularly convincing argument for your sweeping generalizations.

Very well said.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ve just been to a very reverential OF Mass in Gregorian chant.

Disrespect of the Mass has nothing to do with it being OF or EF.

 

[puzzleannie]

I
The OF Mass has more of a festive atmosphere than the EF Mass. EF Mass is more conducisve to reverence and meditation while the OF one is not.

PS The Ode to Joy was played before and after baptism. My protestant cousin said that they do baptisms during their services that’s a big simmilarity.

Also the church building looked like a Baptist mega church.

based on your experience at one Mass at one parish with one priest. pretty broad generalization.

Most of what you describe, with the exception of placing the child on the altar, which I very much doubt, is not actually an abuse. since you don’t describe the dress of the women present there is no way to judge. Head coverings are not required in this century. Some of it may or may not have been illicit or ill-advised. But yes the rite of baptism is preferably conducted in the context of Mass. you don’t specify what “cracking jokes” means either, and if you mean he was chatting with the family of the child before Mass that is perfectly acceptable.

you have a problem with the fact that this parish has so many Catholics attending Mass they need a large church? that is the strangest complaint of all.

 

[curlycool89]

Let’s go through it a few at a time.

Then the cantor, a woman,

sigh You have a problem with a women being a cantor? That’s pretty common and perfectly allowed.

Then most of the women were not dressed modestly and without the chapel veil. Also there were about 10 euacharistic ministers,including women who I think were not dressed very modestly, giving out communion.

What do you mean “not modestly”? Are we talking ankle showing, shoulder, back, midriff, what? Or were they wearing (gasp) pants? Also, women are allowed to be EMHC, and when you say it is a big Church it wouldn’t be that odd to see that many. People talk about Communion related to how long it takes, and for example the Church I attended today had probably that many EMHC and yet communion still took close to 10 minutes.

Also during the consecration the priest consecrated a HUGE host out of a straw like basket instead of a gold paten and he did not raise it he only elevated it slightly and bowed instead of genuflecting. I do not think he had bum legs. There were also no bells at the consecration etc. Also the eaucharistic ministers were giving communion from clear glass plates and the priest from the basket. The wine was distributed on cups that did not appear like gold chalices.

Ok, let’s look at a couple of these. You do not know why the priest can’t genuflect. Maybe he is lazy, but maybe he just had knee surgery or something; it’s not you’re parish so you can’t say for certain.

Bells at the consecration are not always used. I don’t think it’s required.

On the other hand, use of straw baskets is highly illicit. This I heard from a canon lawyer, and it’s because they can’t be purified. They should not be used. As to the glass plates, I’m not sure (you’d have to check the OF GIRM). I don’t believe chalices have to be gold though.

 

[CFXDrummer]

Wow… That’s quite a litany of things! A few thoughts…

- "and then the Family brought the girl to the altar and the priest carried her and sat her down at the altar I was appaled. And then everyone started clapping while the priest played around with her."

Yeah… That’s pretty messed up, and definitely not in keeping with the spirit of the Liturgy. Minus points to the priest, but that’s not the Ordinary Form’s fault.

- "Then the cantor, a woman, would outstretch her hands out wide when singing like the responsorial psalm and the Acclamation after the Consecration to guitar and piano accompaniment."

In places like the psalm, the Alleluia, and other sung parts of the Mass that alternate between being sung by the cantor only and by the full congregation, it’s very common for the cantor to raise their hands to indicate that it’s the congregation’s time to sing. While vocal chant is the standard in the EF, guitars and pianos are most certainly allowed in the OF mass.

- "Then most of the women were not dressed modestly and without the chapel veil."

To the best of my knowledge, even in the EF, there’s no actual -rule- that says women have to wear chapel veils – rather, it’s a pious devotion that is optional to each woman. Either way, in the OF no such requirement exists, and it’s the rare exception to see a woman wear a chapel veil to the OF mass. As far as being dressed immodestly, that’s a fairly subjective claim – while there are plenty of women who don’t dress as well as they should, I think immodesty is flung around a little too often as a charge.

- "Also there were about 10 euacharistic ministers,including women who I think were not dressed very modestly, giving out communion."

All of the liturgical functions in the EF are performed by men, but that’s not the case with the OF liturgy. The use of extraordinary ministers does tend to be taken advantage of more than it should, I think, particularly in newer churches that have a fan-shaped design, making it difficult for the whole congregation to receive up the center aisle from a priest or deacon. While it can sometimes be abused out of convenience, there’s nothing inherently wrong with having a large number of extraordinary ministers.

- "during the consecration the priest consecrated a HUGE host out of a straw like basket instead of a gold paten and he did not raise it he only elevated it slightly and bowed instead of genuflecting."

Again, minus points to the priest. He seems to be one of those overly casual, simplistic types that forgets that there are actually rules in the liturgy to be followed. Consecrating the Eucharist in a hippy straw basket is forbidden by the OF mass, so again – the fault is with the priest, not the mass.

- "There were also no bells at the consecration etc. Also the eaucharistic ministers were giving communion from clear glass plates and the priest from the basket. The wine was distributed on cups that did not appear like gold chalices."

I’m not an expert on this, but I’m fairly certain the bells are optional. Either that, or 90% of the Church is missing the memo. I very rarely see bells used during the consecration… As for all the glass chalices and such, the rules, as far as I know, say that the vessels have to be of a precious material, preferably gold, or something indigenous to the area where the Mass is celebrated. So I guess if the glass was made at a local… Whatever you call a place that makes glass, it would technically fly, but still… I’d say poor judgement by the priest.

Overall, it seems that your experience had more to do with a sort of “culture shock” from seeing a Mass you’re not accustomed to, coupled with a few big no-no’s by the priest which in no way reflect what the OF is supposed to be. Sadly, so many people, especially those who are devoted to the Tridentine Mass (which I attend once or twice a month myself), have never seen a Novus Ordo Mass that’s actually been celebrated the right away, according to all of the actual liturgical guidelines. I can promise you, it’s a beautiful celebration when it’s done right.

 

[Aggiornamento]

PS The Ode to Joy was played before and after baptism. My protestant cousin said that they do baptisms during their services that’s a big simmilarity.

It is actually the preference of the Catholic Church that Baptism be celebrated with the entire community, not privately.

I don’t see any problem with anything else you mentioned. We come together to CELEBRATE! You also seem to have a problem with women liturgically. By the way, women having to wear head coverings disappeared long ago. The Celebration of the Eucharist is when we come to give thanksgiving together, communally, it is not private prayer time.

 

[Catholicben]

Let me ask you this; if you went to a “EF Mass” and the priests made jokes before, during or after, had a saxophone playing during the responses and everyone in the congregation had a balloon, would you say that the *EF has a more festive atmosphere while the the OF is more conducise to reverence? *

The world is not perfect and, apparently, neither is the Church. While I know that the celebration of Mass can vary widely by parish I don’t think it correct or fair to make such broad generalizations such as the “OF has a more festive atmosphere,” which is, really, an ignorant thing to say. A “festive” priest could do the same with the EF; it does not follow, however, that we could say that the EF is a more “festive” form than the OF. There are many reverent celebrations of the Ordinary Form of the Mass. Just because you witnessed one that was not does not mean that you can objectively determine that "the OF Mass has more of a festive atmosphere than the EF Mass. EF Mass is more conducisve to reverence and meditation while the OF one is not."

I completely see what you are saying, and I have been (an currently attend) a very reverent OF mass at least 2-3 times a week, Including Sunday, but…

I think the OP’s point is that in general, an EF is more reverent and conducive to prayer. If you were to randomly pick 10 OF masses, and 10 EF masses, I would bet you $100 that the EF masses were more reverent that the OF masses. It might have to do with the fact that any priest that will even celebrate the EF is probably going to be a more conservative, traditional priest, and that his OF masses will probably be better than most.

That’s just my opinion.