OF / NO fans: would you prefer this?

[LilyM]

A prime example of what happens when there is neither proper catechesis nor retention for the proven liturgy.

Well then catechise me! Tell me what it means or point me somewhere that will teach me instead of bellyaching.

 

[dang71]

“most people would just go and stand there and have no idea what was really going on.”

I venture to say that there probably were quite a few who didn’t have a clue, but with a large percentage of todays church-going Catholics; (according to recent research), not believing in the “real presence”, being divorced, and the majority of them practicing birth control, I figure that particular problem is unbelievably worse today.

here is a perfect example of trads thinking all the ills of the church are due to not having a latin mass. IMO, most problems stem from bad culture seeping into the church, not from switching to a vernacular NO mass. a disobedient priest or layperson will be disobedient regardless of whether the NO or TLM is used, and forcing only TLM will cause (IMO) even more people to be disobedient.

Latin is no barrier to faith when one can easily follow along in a daily missal

i think you are neglecting culture again. if we were to switch to TLM only tomorrow, my opinion is there would be mass migration to other churches (away from Catholicism).

 

[ethelzguy]

i think you are neglecting culture again. if we were to switch to TLM only tomorrow, my opinion is there would be mass migration to other churches (away from Catholicism).

Which is exactly what some in the traditionalist circles seem to want…based on an alleged papal quote that said something to the effect that someday the Church may be smaller but stronger.

Sounds a bit like elitism to me.

 

[mercygate]

Just a thought I had today, and I thought I’d post it here to see what kind of feedback it gets.

Those of you who prefer the Novus Ordo (Ordinary Form): If it were allowed, would you prefer the use of a vernacular translation of the Tridentine Mass (EF) over the current usage of the Novus Ordo?

I would like to hear different reasons either way. Especially for those who might NOT support a vernacular translation of the Tridentine Mass over the Novus Ordo, please explain your preference in terms of history, Tradition, and the hermeneutic of continuity.

I don’t “prefer” the OF. But there are things about it that I value, especially the lectionary, but even there, I would make some upgrades.

A vernacular translation of the EF would not be the OF. And though I am a “traditional” kind of person, I would prefer the following:

1. The basic skeleton of the EF, including prayers at the foot of the altar and celebration ad orientem, but without some of the multiple repetitions.
2. Use of the vernacular, except for the Ordinary.
3. The use of the new lectionary but without gender-inclusive language and without the omissions of the “hard” sayings.
4. Restoration of the Feast of the Circumcision (rather than the new Feast of the Mother of God).
5. Removal of the Feast of the Circumcision (January 1) from the list of Holy Days of Obligation, replacing it with the Epiphany (January 6).
6. Restoration of the celebration of translated Holy Days of Obligation to the actual DAY of the feast.
7. Elevation of the Feast of the Transfiguration (August 6) rather than the Feast of the Assumption as a Holy Day of Obligation.
8. Restoration of the pre-Lenten season (Septuagesima, Sexagesima, Quinquagesima.
9. Stop referring to “Ordinary Time” and refer to those Sundays as the “Sundays after Epiphany” and the “Sundays after Pentecost.”
10. Allow Priests to function as Deacon or Subdeacon for a liturgy (you never lose your diaconal powers! And allow laymen to function as Subdeacon.
11. Restoration of receiving Communion kneeling (at a communion rail).

 

[mercygate]

You’re positing the idea here that more repetitions = more worship. Great. Let’s repeat the Kyrie 15 times instead of nine then - no, 45 times - no, 102 times. Surely each option must be better than the last by your reasoning.

Nah. For THAT you need to go Coptic. You ain’t lived until you have prayed the 99 Kyries to each of the four points of the compass . . .

 

[JuanCarlos]

Nah. For THAT you need to go Coptic. You ain’t lived until you have prayed the 99 Kyries to each of the four points of the compass . . .

Thats too repetitious. Lets eliminate that centuries old tradition and replace it with just one kyrie per two compass points. If anyone objects they are dissenters.

 

[ethelzguy]

If anyone objects they are dissenters.

 

[LilyM]

Nah. For THAT you need to go Coptic. You ain’t lived until you have prayed the 99 Kyries to each of the four points of the compass . . .