off shoot from Catholic and Homosexual thread

[davidv]

jomoco;8115285:

I believe this may be the pertinent “clause” of mine you’re seeking…

To the extent that the CC has proven itself all too human and flawed of late, particularly concerning sexual matters among men, is the extent of the hypocrisy shown by those traditionalist here who truly believe any manmade church’s leader is somehow magically infallible. From an objective viewpoint, just the opposite is true. No matter how lofty and exalted any man’s position in life, he is nonetheless a flawed man, in sore need of God’s grace and forgiveness.

These flawed men all have one thing in common, they are all subject to objective and tangible truths, just like the rest of us are. Jesus was able to actually perform objective tangible miracles in broad daylight before all, that they could see, touch and believe to be real in an absolute sense. And even with that astounding ability, Jesus was betrayed and executed at the behest of His own people!

Here you have supposed authority figures, endowed somehow with infallible divine virtues, yet unable to give any objective proof of these “virtues” in even the slightest degree whatsoever.

And it is from this sad flawed heap of men’s egos and recorded histories you draw from to preach the will and intent of God when He created everything, including homosexuals?

As has occurred so many times in our past, the world of objective science comes along and propels man out of his ignorance and into the light of truth. And like both charles darwin and albert einstein, upon reaching the ends of their lives, they professed belief in the truth of science, and the truth of God, being one and the same thing, objectively speaking.

People are subject to what they can see and feel, and flawed egotistical men would do well to remember that God made us all that way for a reason. A reason known to Him, and not necessarily to you, yet.

Love thy brothers and sisters as yourselves, and rest assured in God’s love of all, particularly the heavily burdened homosexuals, bearing testament to our collective fallen state of ignorance and sin, as best they are able.

jomoco

What is hugely flawed here is the projection of the errors of Church members onto the Church. Whatever hippocracy exists it is in the individual Catholics, not the Church

Confirming someone in their sin is as far from loving as hell is from heaven.

 

[jomoco]

jomoco;8144504:

What is hugely flawed here is the projection of the errors of Church members onto the Church. Whatever hippocracy exists it is in the individual Catholics, not the Church

Confirming someone in their sin is as far from loving as hell is from heaven.

Your presumptions of knowing God’s intents and purposes in creating us all as He did is all too glaringly apparent these days friend.

Letting objective truth decide the matter is my humble counsel to all believing Christians.

jomoco

 

[davidv]

davidv;8144631:

Your presumptions of knowing God’s intents and purposes in creating us all as He did is all too glaringly apparent these days friend.

Letting objective truth decide the matter is my humble counsel to all believing Christians.

jomoco

How would you know what, if any, my presumptions are?

I know that the Church is guardian and teacher of objective Truth. In it fulness this Truth is the person of Jesus. History testifies that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established. So with great certainty I can accept that the immorality of homosexual sex is in fact the truth.

 

[jomoco]

jomoco;8144668:

How would you know what, if any, my presumptions are?

I know that the Church is guardian and teacher of objective Truth. In it fulness this Truth is the person of Jesus. History testifies that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established. So with great certainty I can accept that the immorality of homosexual sex is in fact the truth.

What does the objective truth of evil being done within the church’s doors for decades by homosexual priests teach us?

What do these objective facts being covered up by church authorities for decades teach us?

The line between flawed men and Divine God could not be more objectively apparent than it currently is in my opinion.

You’re certainly not very Jesus like, and most certainly not very God like, in any objective sense.

All that shows objectively is that both our churches and our govts are comprised of flawed men, presumptuously aspiring to a godlike status they can never objectively prove, or demonstrate.

No one understands God’s will in its entirety, nor even the Bible’s mysteries in their entirety as passed down to us through the hands of flawed vain men.

You guys act like it’s all written down in black and white by an infallible authority, understood in each painstaking detail right down to knowing God’s intent and purpose absolutely when He created us so long ago.

I’m sure it haunts many authorities to realise they are just as fallible and flawed as the rest of us are, groping for truth, and all too invariably falling far short of their aspirations.

jomoco

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Your presumptions of knowing God’s intents and purposes in creating us all as He did is all too glaringly apparent these days friend.

Letting objective truth decide the matter is my humble counsel to all believing Christians.

You use the word ‘presumption’ where it does not apply and claim a ‘truth’ that is not objective. As a Christian, you obviously do not accept what the Bible says about the sinfulness of homosexual acts. Contrary to your repeated erroneous claims, it was not ‘flawed men’ or an uninspired Church that came up with these passages:

Genesis 19:1-5, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:21-31, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, and Jude 1:6-7.

Don’t forget that the first three verses preceded the Church. I suggest you also take issue on the same teaching with people of the Jewish faith in a Jewish site, as well, not just with Catholics in Catholic Answers.

Are you hoping, because of your homosexual brother in San Francisco (which you have voluntarily disclosed in your posts elsewhere in this forum), that Christians should just move on beyond these OT and NT verses so all practicing and promoting homosexuals could feel welcome and whole in churches.

For the love of my homosexual sibling who also lived the lifestyle in the City and is now out of it, thankfully, I beg to differ with humility and in charity of all afflicted with homosexuality.

Please do not derail the thread with the topic of homosexual priests.
,

 

[jomoco]

Please do not derail the thread with the topic of homosexual priests.
,

Despite the words catholic and homosexual being so prominent in this thread’s title my friend?

Despite the OP’s question concerning any possible benefits to being homosexual, as a result of my take on the precise reason God may have created them that way, genetically branded into our collectively thick skinned hides that we too are fallible in no short measure, and in dire need of God’s grace and forgiveness?

Surely you jest my friend?

jomoco

 

[Elizabeth502]

God may have created them that way, genetically branded into our collectively thick skinned hides that we too are fallible in no short measure, and in dire need of God’s grace and forgiveness?

No evidence that God created a disordered attraction. Genetics play only one part in the many factors contributing to sexuality and attraction, as many people who no longer have that attraction can confirm, and have confirmed. Because people are not conscious of the factors while in progress does not negative the presence of such a multiplicity of factors.

There is no professional psychological literature that asserts that sexuality of any kind is fixed at birth. None. Sexuality is known to be quite fluid and subject to change before an eventual direction results, and the moment of that ‘identification’ or direction varies with each individual.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Despite the words catholic and homosexual being so prominent in this thread’s title my friend?

Despite the OP’s question concerning any possible benefits to being homosexual, as a result of my take on the precise reason God may have created them that way, genetically branded into our collectively thick skinned hides that we too are fallible in no short measure, and in dire need of God’s grace and forgiveness?

Surely you jest my friend?

jomoco

You are way off the rails, please follow the thread. Perhaps you can explain the reason you would like to have Catholics change their belief, or address the middle part of my post.
,

 

[jomoco]

You are way off the rails, please follow the thread. Perhaps you can explain the reason you would like to have Catholics change their belief, or address the middle part of my post.
,

Let’s talk about how the CC dealt with homosexuals/sodomites historically?

www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/Homosexuality_in_the_Middle_Ages.htm

Let’s see now, death and torture, how quaint.

My how time’s have changed, to the vast disqappointment of some who profess to be Christian?

Somethin aint right here!

Are they truly evil, or God’s barometer of our capacity to love and forgive each other, a sort of heavily burdened angel unaware of God?

jomoco

 

[Nate13]

@jomoco
yeah your off base here. Start a new thread if you want to debate the authority of the Catholic Church.

Also in response to this:

“Despite the OP’s question concerning any possible benefits to being homosexual, as a result of my take on the precise reason God may have created them that way, genetically branded into our collectively thick skinned hides that we too are fallible in no short measure, and in dire need of God’s grace and forgiveness?”

This was answered. The answer was yes, we are all called to live chastely. The OP didn’t like the Catholic idea of chastity though.

As far as only listening to objective truth, wouldn’t that make faith pretty much obsolete?