Offending Traditionalists?

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dove51

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Hi guys! It’s been awhile since I posted here. A little while ago I went to my first Tridentine Mass (you guys were so helpful and encouraging!) and I’ve been a handful of times since then. I really liked it, especially the priests, who gave such wonderful homilies and were very kind and helpful to me in confession when I went there.

But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. I’m not really sure why. Even my sister was upset in the line at confession today, because she said so many people seemed to be “giving her the evil eye”. Does anyone know why this might be? We were dressed appropriately and acting just fine, so I can’t seem to figure out why we got so much negative attention. I put a lot of effort into fitting in, even getting a missal and newer and more appropriate clothes, since I know it’s important. I refuse to believe all these people are mean or unwelcoming, so it must be something I’ve done, some bit of etiquette I’ve not picked up.

Whatever it was, it was bad enough to make my family members very insulted. We won’t be going back to the EF parish anymore, and to be honest, this doesn’t really sadden me anymore. What was once a really rich and prayerful time in my week has gone rather sour.

But I know that in the future I’ll definitely want to go back to the Latin mass someday, so if anyone could tell me what I did wrong, or maybe a long-time traditionalist could clue me in on what behaviors bother them in newcomers, I’d be really, really grateful!
 
Difficult to say without knowing exactly what y’all were doing and wearing when the looks started, I guess.

When you say ‘appropriately’ dressed, were the ladies wearing mantillas if all the other women were? Were they wearing slacks if all the other women were wearing skirts or dresses? Did the menfolk (don’t know if you’re male or female, I’m afraid), by contrast, make sure to take their hats OFF in church?

Were you standing, sitting and kneeling when everyone else was? Responding at points that were indicated in the Missal only for the priest or altar servers?

Perhaps they were just curious because you were new there, and were just looking at you without actually having any ‘nasty’ meaning behind it.
 
Did your mother and sister have their head covered? Some traditionalists are very touchy about that.
 
dove51 said:
But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. I’m not really sure why. Even my sister was upset in the line at confession today, because she said so many people seemed to be “giving her the evil eye”. Does anyone know why this might be?
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:mad: I’d look them straight in the eye and point to the tabernacle. That’s where they should be looking when they’re in church.

I’ve never encountered that sort of odd behavior before. Alot of Traditionalists are awfully (and understandably) bitter, and may be wary of modernist newcomers who want to introduce female lectors or dress the priest up in rainbow vestments or something, but there’s no rational cause to be giving you the “evil eye”.

Instead of leaving, try introducing yourself and your family to some of them after Mass. This may be some sort of misunderstanding.
 
Hi dove, welcome back 🙂

I’ll try two questions that may help.

Have you made any friends there, or introduced yourself to folks as you’ve made eye contact ? Do so outside as you are walking in a few times. Especially the elderly members. They are one of the “perks” of going to the traditional Mass for me. The elderly members of the flock are one of the Church’s treasures. They have been building faith longer than we have, and they deserve a smile 🙂 Perhaps take time after Mass (outside) to introduce yourself to someone. Perhaps an usher if you happen to see him.
Introduce yourself to someone before or after every Mass. Some of these folks will take to you and some won’t, just as in every parish, but before long you’ll make friends. I’ve gotten suspect looks at every parish I’ve been to lol. And I’ve been greeted by alot of smiles as well. That’s life.

Secondly, have you registered there and/or introduced yourself to the clergy there ? Great icebreaker 😉

Don’t walk away from something that is building your faith just because you think you are being shunned, because, you probably aren’t. Most of those looks come from those who look at everyone that way lol.
 
Don’t let grumpy people or self-conciousness get to you, follow Christ and be a witness to others.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Dauphin said:
:mad: I’d look them straight in the eye and point to the tabernacle. That’s where they should be looking when they’re in church.

I’ve never encountered that sort of odd behavior before. Alot of Traditionalists are awfully (and understandably) bitter, and may be wary of modernist newcomers who want to introduce female lectors or dress the priest up in rainbow vestments or something, but there’s no rational cause to be giving you the “evil eye”.

Instead of leaving, try introducing yourself and your family to some of them after Mass. This may be some sort of misunderstanding.
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OOPS. I didn’t see your post when I started my reply. At any rate, yes, introducing yourself to folks, and the priest goes a long way toward gaining acceptance. And folks do like to know who is in their mist.
 
Sounds like the people Fr Z talks about on his blog sometimes…the ones that give EF folks a bad name.

I hope it was a misunderstanding-I’m glad you haven’t given up on the EF or tradition because of a bad experience. I don’t understand why they would do that…if you were doing something ‘wrong’, it would make far more sense to simply whisper to you ‘hey, take your hat off’(or whatever) than just stare at you. That’s something you would to someone who obviously knows they are doing something wrong…like those men who came to Mass in LA dressed like nuns with rainbow hair.

Were you talking to each other, even quietly, in line for confession, or before Mass?

Regardless…it sounds like a good group of people to avoid.
 
dove51 said:
Hi guys! It’s been awhile since I posted here. A little while ago I went to my first Tridentine Mass (you guys were so helpful and encouraging!) and I’ve been a handful of times since then. I really liked it, especially the priests, who gave such wonderful homilies and were very kind and helpful to me in confession when I went there.

But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. I’m not really sure why. Even my sister was upset in the line at confession today, because she said so many people seemed to be “giving her the evil eye”. Does anyone know why this might be? We were dressed appropriately and acting just fine, so I can’t seem to figure out why we got so much negative attention. I put a lot of effort into fitting in, even getting a missal and newer and more appropriate clothes, since I know it’s important. I refuse to believe all these people are mean or unwelcoming, so it must be something I’ve done, some bit of etiquette I’ve not picked up.

Whatever it was, it was bad enough to make my family members very insulted. We won’t be going back to the EF parish anymore, and to be honest, this doesn’t really sadden me anymore. What was once a really rich and prayerful time in my week has gone rather sour.

But I know that in the future I’ll definitely want to go back to the Latin mass someday, so if anyone could tell me what I did wrong, or maybe a long-time traditionalist could clue me in on what behaviors bother them in newcomers, I’d be really, really grateful!
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Sweetie, a warm smile for you.🙂 No, three warm smilies for you:) 🙂 🙂 I hope that makes you feel a little better.🙂

I’m sorry you had that happen to you. It’s not right. You for your part know that, and you’re their for Jesus, anyway. So don’t let the sour faces get in the way of that. Even if people frown, you can always smile back. Then go adore Our Lord and don’t worry about those old sour pusses. Say a prayer for them.

People are funny, you know? Even at church people are funny sometimes.
 
*But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. *

…you weren’t eating beans before Mass, were you…uh, moving right along, I can’t imagine why anyone should be staring at you unless you were displaying gross ignorance of the proceedings, which, if you’d been attending even the most abusive of NO’s, you shouldn’t be…dancing in the aisles comes to mind, which I saw one time at our parish, or excessive nose honking during the Epistle or Gospel, or incessant coughing, or reading a Danielle Steele novel during the Homily…really, I can’t imagine what would be causing enmity towards you, and like the other poster said, they should be paying attention to the liturgy itself…
 
dove, I’m glad you’ve had an opportuinty to experience the EF. If some people chose to make you feel unwelcome, then I apologize for their behavior toward you and your family. That sort of thing should never happen in church. It shouldn’t happen anywhere.
 
Who ran the Church? When I attended an SSPX Church the priest always stared right at me through the whole sermon (it was a small parish where everyone knows everyone, so everyone knew I was new), but at my “indult” parish I can’t imagine that happening (it’s huge)
 
Well, it seems to me you might have invaded their “club” and you are not welcome.

Are you a different race?

Maybe you weren’t driving the right car.

Maybe you have a friend of a relative of a friend of a relative that “offended” one of the prudes 40 years ago and they still carry a grudge after all these years. Kinda Hatfields and McCoys.

Hey, there are plenty of other churches you are welcome in, and people will treat you nice and be glad to see you. They might even shake your hand at the door and get to know you on a first name basis.
 
Dove,
I consider myself new to the EF as well (a little over a year). I’m still learning. I was exteremely poorly catechized (there is enough blame for everyone on that, but primarily me!). I also have a very rambunctious 3 yr old. I still get those looks (by the way I got them at the OF as well). I would suggest you speak with the priest before you give up. I think the priests are a little gun shy when it comes to spontaneous catechism, but would probably be thrilled to talk to you about any concerns you have about the mass or the sacraments or the faith. Let him know where you are and where you want to be and then let him help you get there. That is his job afterall. Then leave it to him to speak to the inappropriateness of others. If you truely feel called to the EF, stick with it and help create a more welcoming environment for others who are just now discovering what you have.
All my best to you.
 
JuanCarlos said:
Who ran the Church? When I attended an SSPX Church the priest always stared right at me through the whole sermon (it was a small parish where everyone knows everyone, so everyone knew I was new), but at my “indult” parish I can’t imagine that happening (it’s huge)
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That was my thought. I have gone to daily Mass, which in my parish is held in the Chapel as the group is usually less than about fifty people. When someone new comes in, the regulars usually give them the once over which I suppose could be called the evil eye. Then afterward in the vestibule the regulars are all chatty with each other and one easily feels left out or shunned unless some good soul reaches out to include them in the buzz.🙂
 
Monica37 said:
Dove,
I consider myself new to the EF as well (a little over a year). I’m still learning. I was exteremely poorly catechized (there is enough blame for everyone on that, but primarily me!). I also have a very rambunctious 3 yr old. I still get those looks (by the way I got them at the OF as well). I would suggest you speak with the priest before you give up. I think the priests are a little gun shy when it comes to spontaneous catechism, but would probably be thrilled to talk to you about any concerns you have about the mass or the sacraments or the faith. Let him know where you are and where you want to be and then let him help you get there. That is his job afterall. Then leave it to him to speak to the inappropriateness of others. If you truely feel called to the EF, stick with it and help create a more welcoming environment for others who are just now discovering what you have.
All my best to you.
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I agree. Stick with it, Dove. You’ll make it easier for the next new person.
 
dove51 said:
Hi guys! It’s been awhile since I posted here. A little while ago I went to my first Tridentine Mass (you guys were so helpful and encouraging!) and I’ve been a handful of times since then. I really liked it, especially the priests, who gave such wonderful homilies and were very kind and helpful to me in confession when I went there.

But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. I’m not really sure why. Even my sister was upset in the line at confession today, because she said so many people seemed to be “giving her the evil eye”. Does anyone know why this might be? We were dressed appropriately and acting just fine, so I can’t seem to figure out why we got so much negative attention. I put a lot of effort into fitting in, even getting a missal and newer and more appropriate clothes, since I know it’s important. I refuse to believe all these people are mean or unwelcoming, so it must be something I’ve done, some bit of etiquette I’ve not picked up.

Whatever it was, it was bad enough to make my family members very insulted. We won’t be going back to the EF parish anymore, and to be honest, this doesn’t really sadden me anymore. What was once a really rich and prayerful time in my week has gone rather sour.

But I know that in the future I’ll definitely want to go back to the Latin mass someday, so if anyone could tell me what I did wrong, or maybe a long-time traditionalist could clue me in on what behaviors bother them in newcomers, I’d be really, really grateful!
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Sad, but true, there is a sense of elitism (rather than the proper virtues of humbleness and humility) among many in the traditional rites. Ignore it and instead focus on the Real Presence, the only thing that really matters. Pray for them.
 
dove51 said:
Hi guys! It’s been awhile since I posted here. A little while ago I went to my first Tridentine Mass (you guys were so helpful and encouraging!) and I’ve been a handful of times since then. I really liked it, especially the priests, who gave such wonderful homilies and were very kind and helpful to me in confession when I went there.

But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. I’m not really sure why. Even my sister was upset in the line at confession today, because she said so many people seemed to be “giving her the evil eye”. Does anyone know why this might be? …

But I know that in the future I’ll definitely want to go back to the Latin mass someday, so if anyone could tell me what I did wrong, or maybe a long-time traditionalist could clue me in on what behaviors bother them in newcomers, I’d be really, really grateful!
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I am going to take a stab at it.

First, I am about 100% sure that you did not do anything wrong, and that the fault is with others. I’ve seen this before.

When someone new starts to attend the Traditional Mass. people notice. And you can also usually tell if they are from another Traditional Church, or new to the Traditional Mass.

Now, most of the people are very happy to see a new person show up - especially if it is obvious that the person is new to the Traditional Mass.

However, there is always a certain percent of “regulars” who are as you described, and they are looking for something to criticize. Whenever a new person shows up at Mass, most of the regulars cringe at what these “busy bodies” might do or say - especially if the new person is not dressed appropriate, or does not have on a veil (which I know what not the case with you). Sometimes you will hear people make comments such as “I had to direct so and so away from her for fear of what she might do or say”. These “busy bodies” are an embarrassment for most of the people who attend Mass there on a regular bases; and it is not at all uncommon for them to run people off. When they do, people get furious with them.

These busy bodies have succumbed to the same temptation as the Pharisees did during our Lord’s time: They think they are “better” than the new people. These are usually the same people who strain at the gnat and swallow the camel by focusing on the externals while giving into more serious sins, such as pride or uncharitable ness.

Now, a few other things came to mind. If you or your sister happen to be good looking, the ladies who gave you to “evil eye” may have been jealous. Or, it may have been that they were just looking your way. Usually at the Traditional Mass, people are not looking at each other, and when they do they are not making any facial expression. I wonder of some of the people were just looking your way without making a facial expression, which made it appear that they were looking at you in a rude way? Could that have been possible?

There’s one thing I would strongly suggest. Rather than not attending, go at least on more time and go to confession and tell the Priest what happened. Tell him that you are new there and have really enjoyed the Mass and the sermons, but that the looks you and you family have got have been so bad that you probably won’t be coming back. I think the Priest would have some good words for you, and it would also be good for him to hear what you have to say.

I know what Church you go to and have heard the Priest give a sermon on this very topic.
 
dove51 said:
Hi guys! It’s been awhile since I posted here. A little while ago I went to my first Tridentine Mass (you guys were so helpful and encouraging!) and I’ve been a handful of times since then. I really liked it, especially the priests, who gave such wonderful homilies and were very kind and helpful to me in confession when I went there.

But, I sort of came across a problem. Every time I went to this parish to attend the EF, my family and I (my mother, sister, and me) got some nasty looks. I’m not really sure why. Even my sister was upset in the line at confession today, because she said so many people seemed to be “giving her the evil eye”. Does anyone know why this might be? We were dressed appropriately and acting just fine, so I can’t seem to figure out why we got so much negative attention. I put a lot of effort into fitting in, even getting a missal and newer and more appropriate clothes, since I know it’s important. I refuse to believe all these people are mean or unwelcoming, so it must be something I’ve done, some bit of etiquette I’ve not picked up.

Whatever it was, it was bad enough to make my family members very insulted. We won’t be going back to the EF parish anymore, and to be honest, this doesn’t really sadden me anymore. What was once a really rich and prayerful time in my week has gone rather sour.

But I know that in the future I’ll definitely want to go back to the Latin mass someday, so if anyone could tell me what I did wrong, or maybe a long-time traditionalist could clue me in on what behaviors bother them in newcomers, I’d be really, really grateful!
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When I first went to a TLM, I felt the same way.

Looking back, some of it was undoubtedly real, but some of it was in my head.

Could it be possible that your nervousness affected how you felt? That’s not to say that people didn’t stare at you.

One time my wife accidentally said, “Amen” after the Sign of the Cross before the sermon. She was embarrassed, but I told her not to worry about it. If people are going to be that obsessive, then forget em!

In short, go back, and don’t worry about the rest. If all I had to wear was a t-shirt and jeans, I’d still go the TLM. If the dog ate my wife’s mantilla (or she just didn’t want to wear one) we’d still go. I’ve seen homeless people step in to the TLM to get warm. There’s no reason to obsess over dress or doing to the right motion at the right time. You have to go several times until you learn what the gist of it all is.

There was a lady who came to our Church for the first time this Sunday, and I sat down next to her, and gave her a half-hearted smile (I’m just not the smiling type), and I wish I had done more to introduce myself. I hope she comes back. She looked frightened, just like I did the first time I went. I hope she returns so I can do more to make her feel at home.

The Tridentine Mass is for all.
 
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