Offer Communion Under Both Kinds?

[Reuben_J]

How do we train wine to be less expensive? Or train people not to go out looking for alcohol? Or the sanitation issue? Or - THE MUSTACHES? Good golly gee, the mustaches.

The training it would take to make these things go super smoothly in many spaces would require hours of Russian ballet-esque instruction and practice… not just for EMHC’s either! The reality of the parish does not allow for this. We just take what we can get, and usually it’s ok. Here though, the problem is that one often needs to navigate a swarming hive of fellow communicants, while Our Divine Redeemer sits in one’s mouth, almost forgotten because Mary Ellen is in front of you and she walks sloooowwwwly, but you are afraid to dodge around her because, well, there are people in line for the chalice, and the lad behind you may or may not be heading to the end there so you are trying to give him some room. Meanwhile, Mary Ellen has decided to communicate again and has gotten in that line, so now you have to wind your way through that line perpendicularly to get out, pardoning yourself to someone who is supposed to be in intense recollection, just as you are supposed to be. Finally you break free! But then you realize - you are on the wrong side of the nave now! You thought you might want to take the chalice, which is only distributed on the left, but decided after turning that you would rather just get back to prayer.

This is how it really is.

Oh - ALSO. Let me add another - which really does happen… FLIES. Or other bugs. Or random things… falling into the chalice. Best to minimize that possibility, no? Unless you are carrying a pall with you when you distribute, this is something that can happen! Are you prepared to give that to the next communicant? Or to drain it yourself? Or to sneak it to Father without him knowing what he’s consuming?

Permit me.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Ah yes. I have seen this before. It is an extremely ambiguous passage, don’t you think?

Should not approach the altar… Does this mean they should be in their pews? Just not up the steps? Or can they be standing nearby but not approach the altar itself, to receive, until after Father?

Distributes to the EMHC’s… But is it necessary that he individually distributes to all of them? The language doesn’t insist…

Assisted by the deacon… MUST the deacon assist, supposing one is there? Or is it just a suggestion?

And then hands… May the vessels be passed, or must it be done in particular? It seems clear that they should not be picking up the vessels off the altar itself, but other than that it’s a little unclear.

Oh well. There are bigger fish to fry in the current liturgical situation of these USA.

I do not find it “ambiguous” at all. The directive prescribes what it is to be done while taking into account that there are varying circumstances in varying situations, thus providing necessary latitude. The instructions are not to be a rigid choreography. Aside from what is prescribed, the matter is the Presider’s judgment.

Because of the Deacon’s normal roles in the liturgy, he is acknowledged, without need of re-articulation, as the default minister of the cup, all else being equal.

The handing of the vessel to each Extraordinary Minister has significant sign value. It should be done by the Presider in such a way, and in full view, so as to emphasise the sign being manifested to the liturgical assembly.

 

[EyesClosed]

The best planners and trainers aren’t going to get 100% cooperation. I think that was HD’s point.

Good planning and training does away with the things on his list…

 

[EyesClosed]

How do we train wine to be less expensive? Or train people not to go out looking for alcohol? Or the sanitation issue? Or - THE MUSTACHES? Good golly gee, the mustaches.

We can certainly train those purchasing the wine to be better shoppers. How’s that? It’s not a trivial matter either. “Sacramental wines” are marked-up for no good reason. Table wine made from grapes with no additives (except some level of preserving chemicals which even sacramental wines have) is all that it takes. Were you aware of that?

Not sure what you mean with your incoherent “Or train people not to go out looking for alcohol?” “Sanitation” in this context is a non-issue. Plenty of information you can Google on this subject. The mustaches are also a non-issue.

The training it would take to make these things go super smoothly in many spaces would require hours of Russian ballet-esque instruction and practice… not just for EMHC’s either! The reality of the parish does not allow for this. We just take what we can get, and usually it’s ok. Here though, the problem is that one often needs to navigate a swarming hive of fellow communicants, while Our Divine Redeemer sits in one’s mouth, almost forgotten because Mary Ellen is in front of you and she walks sloooowwwwly, but you are afraid to dodge around her because, well, there are people in line for the chalice, and the lad behind you may or may not be heading to the end there so you are trying to give him some room. Meanwhile, Mary Ellen has decided to communicate again and has gotten in that line, so now you have to wind your way through that line perpendicularly to get out, pardoning yourself to someone who is supposed to be in intense recollection, just as you are supposed to be. Finally you break free! But then you realize - you are on the wrong side of the nave now! You thought you might want to take the chalice, which is only distributed on the left, but decided after turning that you would rather just get back to prayer.

This is how it really is.

In a word, hogwash. Besides, no layperson is obliged to receive from the cup.

Oh - ALSO. Let me add another - which really does happen… FLIES. Or other bugs. Or random things… falling into the chalice. Best to minimize that possibility, no? Unless you are carrying a pall with you when you distribute, this is something that can happen! Are you prepared to give that to the next communicant? Or to drain it yourself? Or to sneak it to Father without him knowing what he’s consuming?

You’re just talking foolish smack at this point. Use chalice palls when possible and be as careful as possible – and leave the paranoia at home.

 

[EyesClosed]

While it is easy to say, in real life it is quite another matter altogether. I think e_c brought up some practical considerations which actually made sense.

What constitutes good planning and training?

If you refer to EHMCs/lectors/commentators, yes, they do have ‘training’ as far as to what they should and should not do which can be done formally or in ad hoc manner.

Our former Archbishop, now an emeritus, was very particular with how the liturgy being played out. He would, after the procession on going back to the sacristy, remind his entourage and tell them - the altar boys, lectors and EHMCs, on what he had observed during the mass, in order to improve or to avoid undesirable incidents. Those may be regard to the readings or the handling of the Holy Communion.

I don’t dispute you, but your parish seems to be very complacent about the liturgy. I wonder.

Actually not really. Not all parishes expect to experience problems. Some train/plan to avoid them.

 

[revert_jen]

In a word, hogwash. Besides, no layperson is obliged to receive from the cup.

You’re just talking foolish smack at this point. Use chalice palls when possible and be as careful as possible – and leave the paranoia at home.

I think it is possible that there was a more charitable way to say this. Even if the poster was wrong, I saw no indication that he was not stating an honest opinion, and one which has perhaps more merit that you would allow.

Properly training priests and deacons is surely already being done everywhere, and properly training EMHCs is certainly possible. Properly training every person attending a particular Mass is at least impractical and probably impossible. And while some of the issues are perhaps not as big as mentioned, many are still issues.

There is no way that a deacon or EMHC, no matter how well trained, can prevent people from e.g. accidentally jerking their heads and causing some of the Precious Blood to spill, or causing their saliva to go into the wine.

And it is inherent in the process that it must be more time-consuming and expensive than receiving under only one species. No training can cause a quart of wine to cost the same as a cup of wine. The difference in cost may not matter in many parishes, but in some it will, and in any case it is a consideration, even if the pastor decides that it doesn’t have much weight in his particular parish.

And it may be possible (with long practice, a very stable congregation, and training) to prevent extra confusion in the lines when both species are offered, but I have never seen it in any normal congregation (meaning, not counting something like a papal Mass, or the Chrism Mass in a Cathedral). In my experience, it is always more confusing.

It is certainly a valid argument that those issues may not outweigh the benefits of receiving under both species, but saying that they can all be completely disposed of with proper training, well, it just ain’t so. They can be mitigated, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the situation, but not eliminated. And even if it were so, perhaps “talking foolish smack” would not be the best locution to express that opinion.

–Jen

 

[Anne1964]

My personal opinion is that offering the Precious Blood causes confusion among the more poorly catechized who believe that they do not receive the entire sacrament unless they receive both species.

In my parish we only offer the Precious Blood to people who cannot receive a Host (one or two people per Mass), during the Easter Vigil Mass, and any Mass the Bishop presides at.

In another parish I go to for weekday Mass the Precious Blood is offered by one EMHC and anyone wishing to receive has to switch lines to be on the side of the church where the EMHC is.

I will only receive the Precious Blood if I am one of the first in line. Too many germs in the chalice and I have a compromised immune system.