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on_the_hill
Guest
I find that’s the case with a lot of things.
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M-Dent
Guest
Insulation.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I would not go as far as that. What the Church decides on the liturgy is fine with me.
I still think a close observance of the GIRM woukd solve this issue. Unfortunately in some countries, parishes are not updated accordingly.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Close observance of the girm? Then there would be no liturgical disagreements ever!!!
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Reuben_J
Guest
Right … GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal). It is all spelt out there .
Have your parish gone through it?
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Reuben_J
Guest
When our parish implemented the GIRM, those involved in the liturgy were called together for a briefing /training on what it entailed. That was quite a large crowd - altsr servers, lectors and commentators, EHMCs, choirs, leaders of various movements, those in the council and responsible for the liturgy, and some priests and religous - probably a couple of hundreds people.
At first there was some resistance. Some people were adamant why they could not use the oran position for the Our Father, or why you should not move about inter pews / celebrants exiting the sanctuary, why the responsorial psalm should not be replaced by hymns, and so forth.
So when there is dispute, GIRM would settle it.
When it comes to mass, less and less people would do something differently because if they do, they woukd stand out as being different from what the rest are doing.
Today, there is no issues about the liturgy in the parish.
GIRM makes things clear. While some options may be allowed, it is clear on what it allows and disallows.
As Catholics, it is not for us to disagree with the Church if we want to stay Catholics but in deference and obedience to her.
Lots of unnecessary disagreements can be settled if we are not very stubborn but humble to the desire of the Church.
At first there was some resistance. Some people were adamant why they could not use the oran position for the Our Father, or why you should not move about inter pews / celebrants exiting the sanctuary, why the responsorial psalm should not be replaced by hymns, and so forth.
So when there is dispute, GIRM would settle it.
When it comes to mass, less and less people would do something differently because if they do, they woukd stand out as being different from what the rest are doing.
Today, there is no issues about the liturgy in the parish.
GIRM makes things clear. While some options may be allowed, it is clear on what it allows and disallows.
As Catholics, it is not for us to disagree with the Church if we want to stay Catholics but in deference and obedience to her.
Lots of unnecessary disagreements can be settled if we are not very stubborn but humble to the desire of the Church.
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ccrichton
Guest
“It’s not my favorite part, but it did force me to face and overcome anxiety about literally reaching out to strangers.”
I think that’s the point. Reaching out to those we do not know around us. We don’t often know those in the pews around us. So likely we do not know those who are homeless around us. I am one who still has to deal with being uncomfortable with this. I think Jesus wanted us to get out of ourselves and deal with this.
Just my thoughts.
Pacem to all.
I think that’s the point. Reaching out to those we do not know around us. We don’t often know those in the pews around us. So likely we do not know those who are homeless around us. I am one who still has to deal with being uncomfortable with this. I think Jesus wanted us to get out of ourselves and deal with this.
Just my thoughts.
Pacem to all.
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M-Dent
Guest
I do find this specific topic displays the emotional elements that influences the Liturgy.
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cominghome1966
Guest
Before and after I converted, there was a time when the only physical touch I received from another human being all week was during the sign of peace. I was always so grateful for it. It taught me to look around and pay attention to those are are at mass alone, especially the elderly who tend to sit in the back of my parish. If I am ushering I always make a point to be near them at the sign of peace so I can touch them and look them in the eye. I always wonder how much human contact they received the prior week. Some of them seem so grateful that somebody is paying attention to them even for such a brief moment.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
While that can be a benifit, it is not " the point" if the sign of peace in the liturgy.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
No, our parish got so bad we have had to leave. We are nomad Catholics right now with no real options. I’m not going to hijack the thread but man, we are struggling.Right … GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal). It is all spelt out there .
Have your parish gone through it?
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ChrissMari
Guest
We wave to each other. But our English language masses aren’t the most heavily attended in the Parish so and people tend to leave lots of space between them and people they haven’t come with so shaking hands is inconvenient. I don’t know how it’s done in the other language masses that are are more heavily attended and are of a different culture.
Also, there’s a large asian refugee community (from different countries) in our Parish so there’s a lot of bowing as well–even in the English Masses. I’ve not been to the Vietnamese or Indonesian Sunday Masses but our Daily English mass is mostly Vietnamese and was celebrated by a Vietnamese priest (he died two weeks ago.)
On Sunday our Pastor does go into the pews and shakes peoples hands in the front and he very visibly uses sanitizer afterwards. I’m not sure about legal propriety of doing any of that but I think it’s hilarious. before he returns to the table he’s sanitizing his hands.
Also, there’s a large asian refugee community (from different countries) in our Parish so there’s a lot of bowing as well–even in the English Masses. I’ve not been to the Vietnamese or Indonesian Sunday Masses but our Daily English mass is mostly Vietnamese and was celebrated by a Vietnamese priest (he died two weeks ago.)
On Sunday our Pastor does go into the pews and shakes peoples hands in the front and he very visibly uses sanitizer afterwards. I’m not sure about legal propriety of doing any of that but I think it’s hilarious. before he returns to the table he’s sanitizing his hands.
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Rosebud77
Guest
An embarrassed handshake in the middle of mass is not “reaching out” .
You are quite right in the words I have bolded but this is not the way, surely?
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Rosebud77
Guest
Interesting angle but why then not go to the elderly alone immediately after mass and make REAL contact? I do this.
By the way I am both elderly and alone but do not crave what you suggest. Now a real chat etc is a different matter.
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Rosebud77
Guest
Please God you find a “home” church… I know how much that means to you from your posts, Blessings and peace!
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Rosebud77
Guest
Actually he is showing great sense and practical kindness especially making sure folk SEE him cleaning his hands. Germs and viruses can so easily be spread by handshakes. Well done your pastor! Reassuring his flock and caring about themWe wave to each other. But our English language masses aren’t the most heavily attended in the Parish so and people tend to leave lots of space between them and people they haven’t come with so shaking hands is inconvenient. I don’t know how it’s done in the other language masses that are are more heavily attended and are of a different culture.
Also, there’s a large asian refugee community (from different countries) in our Parish so there’s a lot of bowing as well–even in the English Masses. I’ve not been to the Vietnamese or Indonesian Sunday Masses but our Daily English mass is mostly Vietnamese and was celebrated by a Vietnamese priest (he died two weeks ago.)
On Sunday our Pastor does go into the pews and shakes peoples hands in the front and he very visibly uses sanitizer afterwards. I’m not sure about legal propriety of doing any of that but I think it’s hilarious. before he returns to the table he’s sanitizing his hands.
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ChrissMari
Guest
Actually he is showing great sense and practical kindness especially making sure folk SEE him cleaning his hands. Germs and viruses can so easily be spread by handshakes. Well done your pastor! Reassuring his flock and caring about them
I agree with that too. It’s hilarious in a post modern way. It’s something people would (foolishly) consider rude and he makes no qualms about it at all. He’s like “Gotta be clean and so do. Forget your misguided notions of what’s polite!” I love a bit of rabble rousing, me.
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Tommy999
Guest
At my local Methodist congregation, the sharing of the peace generally takes place just before the offering. I find the whole process a bit awkward, but I “soldier on” and do my best to be cordial to those around me. I have a more reserved personality.
It makes sense to me why some Catholics don’t think it fits in with the Catholic Mass, which is one of the most reverent expressions of the Christian faith I have ever experienced.
On the other hand, as a few previous posters have indicated, this may be the only human contact that some folks have during the whole week, so I try to be mindful of that.
I make an extra effort to greet those people who are elderly and sitting alone, or anyone else whose body language indicates they might be welcoming of a handshake.
For my wife, who is much more outgoing than me, the sharing of the peace and the corresponding brief chatting has actually resulted in her starting a new friendship or two with other ladies she didn’t previously know. It is said of my wife that she has “never met a stranger”, so she is one of those (apparently rare) people who genuinely looks forward to the sharing of the peace.
It makes sense to me why some Catholics don’t think it fits in with the Catholic Mass, which is one of the most reverent expressions of the Christian faith I have ever experienced.
On the other hand, as a few previous posters have indicated, this may be the only human contact that some folks have during the whole week, so I try to be mindful of that.
I make an extra effort to greet those people who are elderly and sitting alone, or anyone else whose body language indicates they might be welcoming of a handshake.
For my wife, who is much more outgoing than me, the sharing of the peace and the corresponding brief chatting has actually resulted in her starting a new friendship or two with other ladies she didn’t previously know. It is said of my wife that she has “never met a stranger”, so she is one of those (apparently rare) people who genuinely looks forward to the sharing of the peace.
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cominghome1966
Guest
Because I am a convert who has gone to mass alone a lot, and I am an introvert so need some sort of impetus to do what you suggest. Plus I often usher so I have other duties to attend to once mass is over.
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LiamQ
Guest
To be fair, it’s one heck of a stretch to somehow associate a two second handshake and a bit of a smile as being the “love of Christ.” That certainly won’t make a lonely person any less lonely, and it won’t be much of a comfort to those elderly folks whose children have abandoned them to their old age. We’ll have to do a lot more than just a ritualistic greeting, I’m afraid. Folks need real friends and real fellowship … and the time and place for that is absolutely open for debate. I don’t want you coming over to my house at 2 AM to keep me company, and I don’t want you interrupting Mass, either. Dinner is a different matter.
And you know what? What I’m personally bothered by with regard to Protestants has nothing to do with whether or not they think Catholics are friendly. They’ll see enough evidence to the contrary while getting coffee and doughnuts.
What bothers me is the simple fact that, on any given Sunday Mass, 90 percent of the pews are empty 10 minutes before Mass starts, and will only have a couple dozen folks in them within 2 minutes of Mass ending. Hundreds of Catholics leave before the final blessing, even, and are far more busy yacking than they are actually worshiping God.
That should bother you too, because not only is the disrespect for Christ overwhelming, not only are people clearly “busy about many things,” but this is also a huge scandal to Protestants who might be visiting. That behavior absolutely SCREAMS out that folks might not truly believe what the Church teaches about the Blessed Sacrament.
… and, forgive me, you’re worried about handshakes and folks who have seen too much nonsense getting fed up with the profane attitude people have for the great miracle that occurs at Mass? Oh well. You can tell from my tone that I’ve got a cold and am tired.
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