Offering up suffering - how does it works

[twoangels]

I disagree with this viewpoint.

I have an issue on being punished for failure. I don’t want to have that happen. It is not pride. I’m trying to avoid suffering because of failure.

As long as I’m held responsible temporally for my actions, I have to make sure the actions are correct.

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with. He was not talking about punishment. I think he was taking the topic off on a tangent and failing to answer the question, but your response to his post is even more confusing to me.

 

[Edward_H]

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with. He was not talking about punishment. I think he was taking the topic off on a tangent and failing to answer the question, but your response to his post is even more confusing to me.

Two angels…see my post above…specifically where I describe “how to do”

 

[BobCatholic]

No thoughtful reading of the Gospel will lead to a discussion of failure and sin,

I read about:

• what Jesus did to the fig tree who failed to produce fruit
• the third servant who was punished for failing to do anything with his talent
• the rich young man who failed to give up all his riches, who realized he was not wanted

I could go on, the list is endless of people who failed.

Failure is not tolerated, wanted, or accepted by God.

You will then have sanctified that event in your life. Who knows what God will do with that holy offering…He might save a soul; He might move a woman not to abort her child.

Well, I’m a horrible sufferer. Using your example, I would see that flat tire as yet another bad thing to happen to me. Another punishment. I obviously did something wrong and God chose not to protect me from this bad thing. I’m supposed to be safe in the hands of God. And yet I get hit by another bad thing. I was not safe from that bad thing. So maybe I’m not in the hands of God or something else bad.

Because I am a horrible sufferer, I am a failure in the eyes of God. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus saw me (and other horrible people) in the future and cringed.

I’m not a pleasure seeker. If you give me a choice between no pleasure in life and no suffering (basically a boring life), and lots of pleasure along with lots of suffering, I’ll take the first one easily. But God does not give me that choice.

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with. He was not talking about punishment. I think he was taking the topic off on a tangent and failing to answer the question, but your response to his post is even more confusing to me.

He basically said that if you want control over your life, that’s prideful. I disagreed, I want control over my life so I don’t fail. Failure means suffering. And I want to avoid that.

 

[Edward_H]

I read about:

• what Jesus did to the fig tree who failed to produce fruit
• the third servant who was punished for failing to do anything with his talent
• the rich young man who failed to give up all his riches, who realized he was not wanted

I could go on, the list is endless of people who failed.

Failure is not tolerated, wanted, or accepted by God.

Well, I’m a horrible sufferer. Using your example, I would see that flat tire as yet another bad thing to happen to me. Another punishment. I obviously did something wrong and God chose not to protect me from this bad thing. I’m supposed to be safe in the hands of God. And yet I get hit by another bad thing. I was not safe from that bad thing. So maybe I’m not in the hands of God or something else bad.

Because I am a horrible sufferer, I am a failure in the eyes of God. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus saw me (and other horrible people) in the future and cringed.

I’m not a pleasure seeker. If you give me a choice between no pleasure in life and no suffering (basically a boring life), and lots of pleasure along with lots of suffering, I’ll take the first one easily. But God does not give me that choice.

He basically said that if you want control over your life, that’s prideful. I disagreed, I want control over my life so I don’t fail. Failure means suffering. And I want to avoid that.

I don’t read those passages you cite from the Gospel in isolation from the 2 Great Commandmants. I think we need to resolve or reconcile those points you cite into the great commandments. We can’t “fail” to love God, to give Him our all, to make Him our first priority. If we give our all to God, He owns the results.

Trying to control events may be a sign of pride…it may not…but we need to rectify our intention frequently if we tend to always want our way, or to control events, at the expense of others, or charity, or our own pace of mind.

 

[Edward_H]

Another way to look at the annoyances and contradictions that come our way during the day is to consider them as means to improve our virtues…of patience, fortitude, cheerfulness, ingenuity, prudence, etc. And we can tackle these things, as I said above, as opportunities to converse with God…so a two-fold benefit. In this way…we learn (it takes work and time and patience) to “pray always” or “rejoice always” as it says in Scripture.

Not sure if this helps me…but it sure has helped me…and others I know.

 

[Edward_H]

Sorry, I meant to say “not sure if this will help, but it has helped me…”

 

[BobCatholic]

We can’t “fail” to love God, to give Him our all, to make Him our first priority. If we give our all to God, He owns the results.

The problem is that I don’t know how to give God all how I’m going to do without until I die. Poverty is a horrible thing.

Trying to control events may be a sign of pride…it may not…but we need to rectify our intention frequently if we tend to always want our way, or to control events, at the expense of others, or charity, or our own pace of mind.

Peace of mind is the #1 reason I want to control my life. If I’m temporally held responsible for my actions, then yes, I better do the right thing.

 

[twoangels]

He basically said that if you want control over your life, that’s prideful. I disagreed, I want control over my life so I don’t fail. Failure means suffering. And I want to avoid that.

I took it to mean that if we find our peace, joy and security in how well we control our life, than our peace joy and security are based on an unstable foundation and rooted in sin. We must base our peace, joy and security on the Rock (Christ).

Sufferings will befall us regardless in this life. We cannot completely control them and in our attempts to control them, we may fall into actual sins. For instance, a woman may see great amounts of suffering in her life due to an unplanned pregnancy. As such, she may be tempted to murder the child for the sake of her own happiness, rather than offering her suffering up and carrying her cross.

Carrying my cross is not something I was asking about. I experience suffering in my life that is completely out of my control. I don’t find joy in anything. I was talking to my husband about this yesterday. He was disappointed in one of my anxious reactions to something positive and was hurt by my reaction. He asked me how I’d react if someone gave me the gift of a free trip to some great location. If such a random gift (I wasn’t remotely expecting it), my initial reaction would be anxiety. I wouldn’t be enthuastic about it. I’d be stressed out about it because suddenly I’d have to change my plans in the immediate future (the stress of requesting time off from work). We also talked about how i approach casual social gatherings that people find great joy in as a series of duties and obligations that I feel anxious about because it isn’t clear to me what is expected of me.

I’m not worried about God’s end of the equation. i just don’t trust myself not to mess things up.

 

[twoangels]

I don’t read those passages you cite from the Gospel in isolation from the 2 Great Commandmants. I think we need to resolve or reconcile those points you cite into the great commandments. We can’t “fail” to love God, to give Him our all, to make Him our first priority. If we give our all to God, He owns the results.

Trying to control events may be a sign of pride…it may not…but we need to rectify our intention frequently if we tend to always want our way, or to control events, at the expense of others, or charity, or our own pace of mind.

Obviously if we can fail at making him our first priority. Sin definitely is failure.

 

[Edward_H]

Obviously if we can fail at making him our first priority. Sin definitely is failure.

Sin is a failure to love, and is the only ‘failure’ worth addressing with great attention. We shouldn’t worry about any other sort of failure, if we have given God our all.

And this is why we must ‘integrate’ our work life into our life with God. We must do the work God gives us well, because he has “loved us” with it. He has either given it to us, or allowed us to have it. So it’s our duty to love Him through these things and events. Thus, my description of the flat tire above.

 

[Edward_H]

The problem is that I don’t know how to give God all how I’m going to do without until I die. Poverty is a horrible thing.

Peace of mind is the #1 reason I want to control my life. If I’m temporally held responsible for my actions, then yes, I better do the right thing.

Bob, Please rephrase your remaining concern. I am not sure I completely get it.

We give our all to God, first, when we tell Him so in the morning offering.

That way…everything you do that day will be an offering to God. You needn’t do offerings “singularly”…but you can if it comes to mind…for example, the “flat tire” example above.

One example form is here.

O Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer You my prayers, works, joys and sufferings of this day for all the intentions of Your Sacred Heart, in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass throughout the world, in reparation for my sins, for the intentions of all my relatives and friends, and in particular for the intentions of the Holy Father. Amen.​

I am not sure what type of poverty you mean; some forms of poverty make it harder to sanctify than others.

The prayer of Theresa of Avila is a wonderful way to regain a peace of mind:

“Let nothing disturb you, Let nothing frighten you, All things are passing away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. Whoever has God lacks nothing; God alone suffices”.
​

 

[clem456]

A couple years later, I did something I had always wanted to do but didn’t do because of my anxiety issues. I signed up to walk the Crossroads (the pro life walk across the country). The suffering was supposed to be an act of penance. It was to seek grace. It was hard. I thought the suffering would be mostly physical, but the physical suffering plus the lack of sleep we all suffered made us crabby. We got on each other’s nerves a lot. One day when we were sitting in the RV, one of our leaders told us that in order for our offering to be accepted by God, we needed to pretend that we weren’t suffering. We were not to ever mention or talk about our sufferings because if we did, we were wasting our suffering and our mission wouldn’t be successful.

I got angry. It crushed the hope and peace I had found. I dismissed it.

Well, today, a decade later, I was talking to another peer who insisted on a similiar message. She said that in order to make our suffering redemptive, we had to suffer joyfully.

This is terrible advice.
Never deny your suffering. Jesus did not deny it.
Henri Nouwen addresses your issue in this sermon, parts 3,4 and 5.
youtube.com/results?search_query=henri+nouwen+being+the+beloved+sermon+3+of+8&oq=henri+nouwen&gs_l=youtube.3.2.0l10.1732.4304.0.8357.12.9.0.3.3.0.156.871.6j3.9.0…0.0…1ac.1.oRVwTBfveC8

I have had had similar struggles to you. There can be peace.
God Bless

 

[BobCatholic]

Bob, Please rephrase your remaining concern. I am not sure I completely get it.

If I give everything to God, what will I live on? He will everything I gave him, so I have nothing. Thus I have nothing to survive on until I die.

Example:
If I have $10,000 in life savings and that is all I have, I donate it to the Church or another charity for God. Now I have nothing.

 

[Edward_H]

If I give everything to God, what will I live on? He will everything I gave him, so I have nothing. Thus I have nothing to survive on until I die.

Example:
If I have $10,000 in life savings and that is all I have, I donate it to the Church or another charity for God. Now I have nothing.

Oh Bob…I am sorry. When I use “all” I am not referring at all to money. I mean your love. You give your all to God when you give your best work to Him…when you give great love to your job, or your conversations, or other ordinary work, household chores, you name it. You give him well done work…work that stretches all your virtues. You work with care, attention to detail, fortitude, minimizing errors; you work cheerfully, helping others, serving others through your work. At the end of your day, you can sit down with our Lord and review your day…did you give your best…did you strive to be helpful, quietly helping others in the performance of your ordinary duties.

God doesn’t want your savings; He has rich people for that. What you have that no one else can give Him is you and your love. He wants your company and love throughout the day, everyday, all during the day. If He needs your money someday…He’ll give you more.

 

[fred_conty]

I took it to mean that if we find our peace, joy and security in how well we control our life, than our peace joy and security are based on an unstable foundation and rooted in sin. We must base our peace, joy and security on the Rock (Christ).

Sufferings will befall us regardless in this life. We cannot completely control them and in our attempts to control them, we may fall into actual sins. For instance, a woman may see great amounts of suffering in her life due to an unplanned pregnancy. As such, she may be tempted to murder the child for the sake of her own happiness, rather than offering her suffering up and carrying her cross.

Carrying my cross is not something I was asking about. I experience suffering in my life that is completely out of my control. I don’t find joy in anything. I was talking to my husband about this yesterday. He was disappointed in one of my anxious reactions to something positive and was hurt by my reaction. He asked me how I’d react if someone gave me the gift of a free trip to some great location. If such a random gift (I wasn’t remotely expecting it), my initial reaction would be anxiety. I wouldn’t be enthuastic about it. I’d be stressed out about it because suddenly I’d have to change my plans in the immediate future (the stress of requesting time off from work). We also talked about how i approach casual social gatherings that people find great joy in as a series of duties and obligations that I feel anxious about because it isn’t clear to me what is expected of me.

I’m not worried about God’s end of the equation. i just don’t trust myself not to mess things up.

Love is thinking about someone else. When with others, just find out what they are interested in and be a good listener. One aditional thing, pray to the Holy Spirit that he guide you in your conversation with others so that they will enjoy their evening more.

Finding joy is where the love is. Pray for those on the road to hell, that Jesus and Mary may help them back. That is the greatest love that could be shown to anyone. Joy comes from love, and this is where it is at. Beg for their souls. Mary herself has asked for this several times.

Think of it this way. If a person were about to lose their home, and you will able to prevent this, just how grateful do you think they would be to you? If you saved them from drowning, how grateful do you think they would be? This is certainly great charity. But now think of a person you may save from the worst tradgedy of all, unrelenting suffering which will never be able to be stopped. How grateful do you think they are going to be, and also Jesus? This is the highest form of charity.

“…give and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, shall they pour into your lap. For what measure you measure, it shall be measured to you.” Mk 6,38

Just a thought.

 

[BobCatholic]

Oh Bob…I am sorry. When I use “all” I am not referring at all to money. I mean your love. You give your all to God when you give your best work to Him…when you give great love to your job, or your conversations, or other ordinary work, household chores, you name it. You give him well done work…work that stretches all your virtues. You work with care, attention to detail, fortitude, minimizing errors; you work cheerfully, helping others, serving others through your work. At the end of your day, you can sit down with our Lord and review your day…did you give your best…did you strive to be helpful, quietly helping others in the performance of your ordinary duties.

How do I give God well done work, do I just offer it up?

God doesn’t want your savings; He has rich people for that. What you have that no one else can give Him is you and your love. He wants your company and love throughout the day, everyday, all during the day. If He needs your money someday…He’ll give you more.

I want to give God more love, I know I don’t love God enough. As a result, I’m a disappointment to him and I suffer problems in my life since I’m not protected from them by God. I’m in his hands, right? And it is raining acid out there. I’m sitting on one hand of God, and have his second hand that is over me, protecting me from the acid raining.

God moves a finger and acid drops hit me hard. “You should have done better, so now I move my fingers and let things hit you hard.” he says through the sufferings I get.

I hate being a failure to God. I absolutely hate it. I fail him and I and my family suffer.

Then there’s the question of the dark night of the soul. I only live that. There is a saying that God seeks out others. Not me. He avoids me because I’m such a disappointment to him. There is no joy from him in my life. I see people who God loves more than me, and see their joy. I get jealous. I wish I could get a hug from God.

 

[Edward_H]

How do I give God well done work, do I just offer it up?

I want to give God more love, I know I don’t love God enough. As a result, I’m a disappointment to him and I suffer problems in my life since I’m not protected from them by God. I’m in his hands, right? And it is raining acid out there. I’m sitting on one hand of God, and have his second hand that is over me, protecting me from the acid raining.

God moves a finger and acid drops hit me hard. “You should have done better, so now I move my fingers and let things hit you hard.” he says through the sufferings I get.

I hate being a failure to God. I absolutely hate it. I fail him and I and my family suffer.

Then there’s the question of the dark night of the soul. I only live that. There is a saying that God seeks out others. Not me. He avoids me because I’m such a disappointment to him. There is no joy from him in my life. I see people who God loves more than me, and see their joy. I get jealous. I wish I could get a hug from God.

Yes. These are good, solid questions. How do you give God your work? With your will and a short prayer. Make up your mind and intention that the next period of work…the next shift, the next customer served, the next budget formed, the next email written, meeting held, roof fixed, concrete sidewalk poured…is being done for God…not abstractly…but concretely. Do it well, no moaning, minimize mistakes, focus, finish. God can convert this work into graces, into anything. If He transfigured and transubstantiates…He can and will take our work ofering and convert it into blessings for others or even ourselves. Focusing on others though seems to bring more joy.

You can offer work for reparations for yourself, or for the people who perform abortions, as an act of thanksgiving, or just as an act of love.

Begin again every day. Do your work with God. I do this all the time…and I’m not nuts…I like work because I am with God…I am sharing His life in Nazareth…or Calvary.

I offer periods of work every day…for my immediate family, for people who are sick, people who send me annoying emails, expectant mothers, my parish priest, vocations, peace, my lousy, anti-life representatives, etc.

Work becomes prayer. At the end of the day…or at anytime…there is so much to talk about in prayer with God.

 

[HolyRosaryChild]

I comprehend what you have suffered through anxiety given this happened during Primary school with a relative; having been through the anxiety over past years, you are a strong person today and assisting others which will undoubtedly be rewarded by The Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Today, why not say the following words while praying Our Lady’s Holy Rosary 'Jesus, (picture Jesus up in Heaven laying His Hands upon you)

Dear Jesus Christ Our Saviour, I wish to offer up all of my anxiety, depression, sadness and hardships now and for Eternity, could you please lay Thine Hands upon me and take away my depression replacing it with joyfullness and happiness within my soul, heart mind and body, now and for Eternity, Amen.

Jesus and Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus love all to pray for World Peace as much as possible with your own cause.

 

[HolyRosaryChild]

Oops, I responded to another person’s post in this one, apologies Bob.

Bob, this year I paid off all of my bills through Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus’ Holy Rosary, sold my home, sold my vehicle, gave away all of my belongings, including most of my clothes, donated to single mothers and children, young couples with babies struggling, The Mother Theresa Funds, The Societies for the Blind, and have tried to assist as many people Jesus and Our Lady Mary have sent my way.

However, the most important thing a person in their life is able to do for God Our Heavenly Father, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus is to PRAY and PRAY for others (the most selfless and the most giving action out of everything).

Never worry about how much you have or how much you give, as through prayer, God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus will guide you if they need you to donate or sell any of your possessions. Make no mistake, you will clearly hear this through prayer from Our Lady Mary through Jesus and Our Lady’s Holy Rosary.

Always keep enough for a roof over your head, it makes it much easier praying for sisters and brothers in Christ.

 

[ltravis]

This is a great discussion on a great topic. I had not learned the meaning of “give it up” until I was an adult, although I heard the phrase often enough in school. I am no expert but can offer my thoughts as they came to me. Perhaps something in them will mean something.

I think of St. Paul’s famous words to the Colossians:

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking* in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church.” (1 COL:24)

To me this is shows Paul’s joy in suffering not because he enjoys the feeling of it, but because he knows that he is helping Christ in his redemptive work. It is a confidence and an assurance that there is a reason to it. Personally, when in trials, I think of myself as being with Jesus up on the cross in his most agonizing hour where he offered such love but yet was abandoned by those he loved. In my suffering I seek to make sure he is not alone. Certainly he doesn’t need my help any more than a parent needs their child’s help baking a cake, but there is such love in letting the child help. There is a joy in doing my very small part to be with Jesus on the cross and playing whatever tiny role I can play.

Joy isn’t happiness. It is far better. Think of a loved one in the hospital sick or dying. At that time you want nothing more than to share their suffering and just be with them. It doesn’t take their pain away, and is greater physical pain for you, but there is no place you would rather be. I am reminded of what Peter Kreeft wrote in his account of his experience when his daughter was near death:

Not even happiness is more precious to love than withness. “Better unhappy with her than happy without her” are the words of love.

Offering our suffering up to Jesus is, to me, a way to have that “withness” with him.

Joy in this context cannot mean happiness, because if it did, than we are asked to feel happiness in our state of suffering, to not take joy in suffering, but to “enjoy” suffering. Well, if I enjoyed suffering, I wouldn’t really be suffering would I? I would be getting my own reward from it, and it wouldn’t be a true self-emptying offering to God.

So how do I concretely offer my suffering up to God? I have faith that the suffering in front of me TRULY will be used by Christ in ways beyond my understanding for greater good. I have to have that hope that I know this is true and it is a special gift Jesus his given me to be able to cooperate in. Like salvation and grace, his gift is totally unmerited. I can’t initiate it or do it on my own; I can only recognize the gift, accept it, and leave myself open to accepting what Christ can do through it if I let him. This is not an easy way out. It means handing yourself over to his will for you…completely (even in the midst of very difficult or seemingly hopeless times). I will admit it can be challenging in practice. When in tough times, I will simply tell Jesus I am offering it to him for the good he can work through it. I will not feel happy at all, and my emotions scream the opposite of acceptance. I just consider that a weakness of my fallen nature and appeal to God to accept my offering as sincere despite my contrary physical insticts and just leave it in his hands.

I see that you really are struggling with trials. It can cause great anxiety and depression. Such suffering is God’s will - not meaning that he actually sends pain to you, but that he permits such an “evil” for the greater good he can give you through it. I believe that in extreme suffering, we are reduced to the point where we realize that there is nothing else but God, which in the end is what our souls we have been seeking all along.

Maybe there is something in all that which makes sense. It is just my thoughts and I may well be wrong on some of it; if so I hope someone points it out.

-LT