L
- Status
M
mommamaree
Guest
Twoangels,
I know, based upon reading your posts here at CAF, reading your personal histories you have shared, and seeing how graciously you respond to others in need, that you are truly kind and compassionate soul, so please take my response in the manner in which I intend it.
I am MAD
Those people who told you such things about redemptive suffering sound so self-righteous and ready to congratulate themselves on how well they suffer, that they were oh-so-eager to lay a burden upon you that the Lord himself would not place upon you.
I am so very MAD at them, for saying such things. No where does it say that we are to be happy about our suffering.
Recently, I lost my second baby due to an early miscarriage. Was I supposed to be happy about that? A most emphatic NO! Who on earth in their right mind would be happy to lose a child?
One thing that I cling to over the years is that we can experience suffering, but choose joy. That does not mean happy happy fun time. That does not mean silent suffering without confiding in anyone our secret pain. That is delusional or stoicism. Neither is healthy.
For me, the “experience suffering, choose joy” means that I trust that the Lord has a beautiful plan to bring about good things from the pain I am experiencing. My personal visualization of this is that I am a muddy garden (pain and sorrow) and that God wants to grow a beautiful rose garden. Good soil is dark (painful) and deep (not superficial in emotions) and moist (with tears). So my muddiness, when I offer it up to God, can become a beautiful garden full of gorgeous roses that bring the whole world joy. It is not instantaneous, it is not always pleasant (tilling hurts), it is not easy (rose gardens are notoriously difficult and need constant tending), but the joy of being transformed into a beautiful rose garden and of then bringing joy to others is worth the pain and the sorrow and the tears. Maybe it is not a perfect analogy, but it works.
But if I never told anyone about my pain, for example if I never confided to anyone that I had lost two babies, how would anyone ever be blessed by my roses. They would believe that the roses just appeared magically. Maybe they might even think that I am lucky. It is good for us to share our pain with others, and it is good for others to know our pain.
Offering up our suffering does not mean that we must pretend that they do not exist. I honestly do not know where this idea came from, but it seems inauthentic and untruthful. Putting on a playact for other people gains us no merit as far as I can see.
I am sorry that others have tried to burden you with this. I have heard this “pile” before and rejected it then for the stinky poo I still believe that it is. Please do not allow them to steal from you your beautiful tears and sorrows.
I know, based upon reading your posts here at CAF, reading your personal histories you have shared, and seeing how graciously you respond to others in need, that you are truly kind and compassionate soul, so please take my response in the manner in which I intend it.
I am MAD
Those people who told you such things about redemptive suffering sound so self-righteous and ready to congratulate themselves on how well they suffer, that they were oh-so-eager to lay a burden upon you that the Lord himself would not place upon you.
I am so very MAD at them, for saying such things. No where does it say that we are to be happy about our suffering.
Recently, I lost my second baby due to an early miscarriage. Was I supposed to be happy about that? A most emphatic NO! Who on earth in their right mind would be happy to lose a child?
One thing that I cling to over the years is that we can experience suffering, but choose joy. That does not mean happy happy fun time. That does not mean silent suffering without confiding in anyone our secret pain. That is delusional or stoicism. Neither is healthy.
For me, the “experience suffering, choose joy” means that I trust that the Lord has a beautiful plan to bring about good things from the pain I am experiencing. My personal visualization of this is that I am a muddy garden (pain and sorrow) and that God wants to grow a beautiful rose garden. Good soil is dark (painful) and deep (not superficial in emotions) and moist (with tears). So my muddiness, when I offer it up to God, can become a beautiful garden full of gorgeous roses that bring the whole world joy. It is not instantaneous, it is not always pleasant (tilling hurts), it is not easy (rose gardens are notoriously difficult and need constant tending), but the joy of being transformed into a beautiful rose garden and of then bringing joy to others is worth the pain and the sorrow and the tears. Maybe it is not a perfect analogy, but it works.
But if I never told anyone about my pain, for example if I never confided to anyone that I had lost two babies, how would anyone ever be blessed by my roses. They would believe that the roses just appeared magically. Maybe they might even think that I am lucky. It is good for us to share our pain with others, and it is good for others to know our pain.
Offering up our suffering does not mean that we must pretend that they do not exist. I honestly do not know where this idea came from, but it seems inauthentic and untruthful. Putting on a playact for other people gains us no merit as far as I can see.
I am sorry that others have tried to burden you with this. I have heard this “pile” before and rejected it then for the stinky poo I still believe that it is. Please do not allow them to steal from you your beautiful tears and sorrows.
M
mommamaree
Guest
Are you kidding me?!!!
Twoangels, if you lived near me I would be thankful to have a friend like you. I would rather have a melancholy friend with whom I could be real and deep and serious, than a thousand super-cheery bright popular bubbly friends where I could never talk about painful things or anything deeper than material things of life.
H
HolyRosaryChild
Guest
lTravis’ quote: “Personally, when in trials, I think of myself as being with Jesus up on the cross in his most agonizing hour where he offered such love but yet was abandoned by those he loved. In my suffering I seek to make sure he is not alone. Certainly he doesn’t need my help any more than a parent needs their child’s help baking a cake, but there is such love in letting the child help. There is a joy in doing my very small part to be with Jesus on the cross and playing whatever tiny role I can play”.
This is exactly how I think and feel about Jesus through my life and it is only recently I have consciously (through Our Lady Mary) voiced the term “I am offering up this situation to you Jesus”, whereas over past years working through hardships, I prayed for assistance to work through all issues and all answered by God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary.
My interpretation of Our Lady Mary’s message to me also involves the blocking out of Satan/evil within the hardship tasks, at the time I am working through these. In other words, Jesus flows His Love and strength through me to complete the hardships with ease,while I am learning from these hardships/tasks, by blocking Satan continuing or worsening the hardships or adding on to the hardships/tasks at the time.
This is exactly how I think and feel about Jesus through my life and it is only recently I have consciously (through Our Lady Mary) voiced the term “I am offering up this situation to you Jesus”, whereas over past years working through hardships, I prayed for assistance to work through all issues and all answered by God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary.
My interpretation of Our Lady Mary’s message to me also involves the blocking out of Satan/evil within the hardship tasks, at the time I am working through these. In other words, Jesus flows His Love and strength through me to complete the hardships with ease,while I am learning from these hardships/tasks, by blocking Satan continuing or worsening the hardships or adding on to the hardships/tasks at the time.
The_Reginator
Active member
Here’s the way I have just started to think about any suffering of any sort that comes my way:
We cannot deny that we are suffering, neither can we ‘sugar coat’ it. I am trying to learn to embrace my suffering rather than grumble about it. I am starting with the weather and working up to my ‘marriage’ and other woes. This is not an easy thing to do, and it must especially vary with the kind of suffering we are going through.
But still, whether we win a million dollars, go blind, enjoy a meal, or get epilepsy, it is always a gift from God. (The exception to that general statement, I suppose, would be if our suffering is a direct result of our sins or another person’s sin. Or maybe that is a gift too …
)- Reg.
B
BobCatholic
Guest
I am unable to embrace my sufferings. I see it as masochism.
I am having trouble seeing it as anything other than God wanting, nay, DEMANDING us to be masochists.
I am utterly repulsed by that idea.
I hate suffering. Especially when I don’t see the positive results (and God won’t show me what they are!!!)
It is one thing to suffer knowing that something better will come out of it. Study hard, pass the test. Root canal, more pain now, far less pain letter. I get it.
But when it comes to God telling me to suffer and not giving me one iota of information of WHY and HOW good things will happen…that is impossible for me. I just can’t do it. God imposes an unfunded mandate (“thou must suffer!”) and then punishes me (“if you do not suffer well, I don’t want you!”) if I don’t do it? That’s not loving.
Yes, I’m told that God will use all sufferings to make something way better come of it. But when God won’t tell me what the “way better” thing is, or how my specific sufferings are helping, I can’t handle the suffering. I’m expected to have “blind faith” - but that is not real and true faith. True faith is not blind, it helps me see!
Expecting someone to suffer without giving them information on what good it is doing, is expecting them to be a masochist. And how is that acknowledging human dignity? How does God show love by requiring that?
And when it comes right down to the most basic question: How is God different from the OTHER GUY who we are to reject, when it comes down to expectations of suffering? Both of them expect their slaves to be masochists, when they don’t tell their slaves why they are suffering Sorry, I can’t accept that. That idea utterly repulses me. God is supposed to be way better than that. I believe he is but I can’t understand the unfunded mandate and the punishment.
So right now I have two choices.
I am having trouble seeing it as anything other than God wanting, nay, DEMANDING us to be masochists.
I am utterly repulsed by that idea.
I hate suffering. Especially when I don’t see the positive results (and God won’t show me what they are!!!)
It is one thing to suffer knowing that something better will come out of it. Study hard, pass the test. Root canal, more pain now, far less pain letter. I get it.
But when it comes to God telling me to suffer and not giving me one iota of information of WHY and HOW good things will happen…that is impossible for me. I just can’t do it. God imposes an unfunded mandate (“thou must suffer!”) and then punishes me (“if you do not suffer well, I don’t want you!”) if I don’t do it? That’s not loving.
Yes, I’m told that God will use all sufferings to make something way better come of it. But when God won’t tell me what the “way better” thing is, or how my specific sufferings are helping, I can’t handle the suffering. I’m expected to have “blind faith” - but that is not real and true faith. True faith is not blind, it helps me see!
Expecting someone to suffer without giving them information on what good it is doing, is expecting them to be a masochist. And how is that acknowledging human dignity? How does God show love by requiring that?
And when it comes right down to the most basic question: How is God different from the OTHER GUY who we are to reject, when it comes down to expectations of suffering? Both of them expect their slaves to be masochists, when they don’t tell their slaves why they are suffering Sorry, I can’t accept that. That idea utterly repulses me. God is supposed to be way better than that. I believe he is but I can’t understand the unfunded mandate and the punishment.
So right now I have two choices.
- suffer because I know what the outcome will be so I can accept it and do it right.
- avoid the suffering at all costs. It has no value. I become a hedonist. (SIN)
H
HolyRosaryChild
Guest
Bob, dozens of people have given you suggestions and advice, shared their faith and inspirations with you - if someone (through God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus has not gotten through to you, then you have not made changes to your life that are necessary for you to feel better.
Q: Have you ever prayed the Jesus Rosary? Have you ever prayed Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus’ Rosary? Starting with asking Our Lady Mary for World Peace and then your cause(s)?
If not, why not?
If I were to ask you Bob, for the three major problems as you see them in your earthly life, what are these in summary using one line for each?
Next, if I were to ask you Bob, what are the three major problems you feel guilt about in your earthly life, what are these in summary using one line for each?
Next, if I were to ask you Bob, what are the three major things God gave you during the course of your life, that you love? What would those three things be Bob?
Q: Have you ever prayed the Jesus Rosary? Have you ever prayed Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus’ Rosary? Starting with asking Our Lady Mary for World Peace and then your cause(s)?
If not, why not?
If I were to ask you Bob, for the three major problems as you see them in your earthly life, what are these in summary using one line for each?
Next, if I were to ask you Bob, what are the three major problems you feel guilt about in your earthly life, what are these in summary using one line for each?
Next, if I were to ask you Bob, what are the three major things God gave you during the course of your life, that you love? What would those three things be Bob?
B
BobCatholic
Guest
God needs to tell me what those things are. Those are his requirements. And it is reasonable to know what they are. Otherwise, he has an obligation to stop punishing me with suffering. Either he has an obligation to tell me, or he has an obligation to stop the suffering. He can’t have both. If he wants both, then he is not loving or reasonable.
No. If God said no to regular prayers, that’s because it is his will. A rosary won’t make God change his will.
Financial, health, and worries about evils to befall me.
I have a self. The self is evil. One is not supposed to have a self, they’re supposed to decrease and let God increase, until their self no longer exists.
I don’t have a personal relationship with God. No matter how much I try, he doesn’t want me.
I can’t trust God enough. Trust has to be earned and God has not been reliable enough to be trusted in all areas of my life. Yes, I’m imperfect, I’m going to fail, and not be reliable. But God does not have that excuse.
My wife.
My son.
My extended family.
H
HolyRosaryChild
Guest
There is a validated reason for each of those (3) questions posed to you Bob.
The reason Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus (through Jesus Her Son and through God of course) states 1. Praying, 2.Fasting (when we can), 3. Confession, 4. Mass and receiving the Blessed Holy Sacraments are for excellent reasons, some of which are explained to us through the Catholic religion.
Praying - opening up our Hearts to God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus
Fasting - for me, offering up food for God, Jesus and Our Lady Mary (Jesus did it for us) and it rids Satan while I am praying the Holy Rosaries for people right around the world and for all souls in pergatory
Confession - here is the ‘big one’ - confession cleanses our soul, mind, heart and body each time in order to FEEL God’s LOVE for us and KNOW God’s love for us by NO barriers felt between God and ourselves ie Satan’s buggered off tempting you with these negative thoughts of feeling like a failure or you believing that God thinks of you as a failure giving you more and more tests, hardships and sufferings. That is definitely Satan, and is not God!
Been there done that with hundreds of tests and hardships many of which were my tests given by God, Jesus and Our Lady, (some were caused by Satan), however God knew not to intervene, as God knew that He would step in and ease my burdens when I trusted in Him to (a) pray and open up my heart to Him, (b) believe He would ease or take away my burden(s), (c) Be genuinely grateful and give thanks for easing my burden(s) however most of all LOVE Him regardless of the burdens and outcomes.
Any negative feelings are not from God (that is Satan’s (attempted) work). That is not God’s work to make you feel worthless or unworthy when God knows your soul Bob and that you have been giving and sacrificing to assist your family and other people.
God will give you tests to build up your skills and knowledge to carry out your callings now and for Eternity, however if one of these is perceived by you as failure, that is not God, that is past sins rearing up by Satan reminding you of past negatives failures, trying to intervene in your relationship and coming closer and closer to God.
The past 12 months was my Healing year (we are all healing for eternity) however, I was called upon to do some major work next year that required my soul to be healed this year, which of course included a few key relationships in my life. I was almost there you know, when Satan put a temporary spanner in the works, tempting me to return to the bloke (ex husband of 17 years) who is faithless at present in his life, I say present, as there is always hope, thanks be to God, to assist a certain situation in his life (his healing with his mother who had a stroke). I gave them time together alone to heal, however, she needed her life saving in hospital and I ws the only person who could do this at the time (long story and wont go into it - too long).
I have just finished raising my children (now grown up) and was looking forward to time spent carrying out my calling(s) that I got from Our Lady Mary this year. I have completed a few, some backfired, LOL, I fully comprehended where the problem was for each calling that had (on the outside) failed.
Guess what Bob? Neither failed, as third parties learned from the callings/tasks Our Lady Mary and Jesus had given me, which will be taken on by another guy shortly in the near future.
If you reflect briefly on each of your perceived failings in life, you will discover that there were positives that came out of each of your ‘perceived’ failings and that it is Satan filling your head with this ‘failing/failure’ nonsense.
Keep on carrying out your Callings, never give into Satan Bob.
The old saying about a guinea pig (someone somewhere needs to endure certain trials to assist hundreds or thousands of other people later (it is for your Soul for Eternity after you finish down here)ith guilt or further guilt in our daily lives and feel and KNOW God’s love He has for us all Bob
The reason Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus (through Jesus Her Son and through God of course) states 1. Praying, 2.Fasting (when we can), 3. Confession, 4. Mass and receiving the Blessed Holy Sacraments are for excellent reasons, some of which are explained to us through the Catholic religion.
Praying - opening up our Hearts to God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus and Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus
Fasting - for me, offering up food for God, Jesus and Our Lady Mary (Jesus did it for us) and it rids Satan while I am praying the Holy Rosaries for people right around the world and for all souls in pergatory
Confession - here is the ‘big one’ - confession cleanses our soul, mind, heart and body each time in order to FEEL God’s LOVE for us and KNOW God’s love for us by NO barriers felt between God and ourselves ie Satan’s buggered off tempting you with these negative thoughts of feeling like a failure or you believing that God thinks of you as a failure giving you more and more tests, hardships and sufferings. That is definitely Satan, and is not God!
Been there done that with hundreds of tests and hardships many of which were my tests given by God, Jesus and Our Lady, (some were caused by Satan), however God knew not to intervene, as God knew that He would step in and ease my burdens when I trusted in Him to (a) pray and open up my heart to Him, (b) believe He would ease or take away my burden(s), (c) Be genuinely grateful and give thanks for easing my burden(s) however most of all LOVE Him regardless of the burdens and outcomes.
Any negative feelings are not from God (that is Satan’s (attempted) work). That is not God’s work to make you feel worthless or unworthy when God knows your soul Bob and that you have been giving and sacrificing to assist your family and other people.
God will give you tests to build up your skills and knowledge to carry out your callings now and for Eternity, however if one of these is perceived by you as failure, that is not God, that is past sins rearing up by Satan reminding you of past negatives failures, trying to intervene in your relationship and coming closer and closer to God.
The past 12 months was my Healing year (we are all healing for eternity) however, I was called upon to do some major work next year that required my soul to be healed this year, which of course included a few key relationships in my life. I was almost there you know, when Satan put a temporary spanner in the works, tempting me to return to the bloke (ex husband of 17 years) who is faithless at present in his life, I say present, as there is always hope, thanks be to God, to assist a certain situation in his life (his healing with his mother who had a stroke). I gave them time together alone to heal, however, she needed her life saving in hospital and I ws the only person who could do this at the time (long story and wont go into it - too long).
I have just finished raising my children (now grown up) and was looking forward to time spent carrying out my calling(s) that I got from Our Lady Mary this year. I have completed a few, some backfired, LOL, I fully comprehended where the problem was for each calling that had (on the outside) failed.
Guess what Bob? Neither failed, as third parties learned from the callings/tasks Our Lady Mary and Jesus had given me, which will be taken on by another guy shortly in the near future.
If you reflect briefly on each of your perceived failings in life, you will discover that there were positives that came out of each of your ‘perceived’ failings and that it is Satan filling your head with this ‘failing/failure’ nonsense.
Keep on carrying out your Callings, never give into Satan Bob.
The old saying about a guinea pig (someone somewhere needs to endure certain trials to assist hundreds or thousands of other people later (it is for your Soul for Eternity after you finish down here)ith guilt or further guilt in our daily lives and feel and KNOW God’s love He has for us all Bob
H
HolyRosaryChild
Guest
Through prayer with Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus I got two things for you Bob;
You wont like the idea however it is necessary for your soul progression/relationship with God.
If you have children whom are young and dependant upon you, make your own wise decisions, if you have children who are older and well able to stand up on their own two feet, this would be another reason that Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus has advised you to make changes in your life and move away for a while doing some Missionary work that will be rewarded tenfold.
Best wishes for Christmas and your break if you make the positive changes Bob!
- Walk away they will stand up on their own two feet (probably for me too)
- Undertake Missionary work perhaps abroad (for 6 months?)
You wont like the idea however it is necessary for your soul progression/relationship with God.
If you have children whom are young and dependant upon you, make your own wise decisions, if you have children who are older and well able to stand up on their own two feet, this would be another reason that Our Lady Mary Mother of Jesus has advised you to make changes in your life and move away for a while doing some Missionary work that will be rewarded tenfold.
Best wishes for Christmas and your break if you make the positive changes Bob!
M
mommamaree
Guest
Bob,
God does not owe us an explanation for the work He does in our lives. We do not need an explanation before we are able to be obedient.
Here is an example. Just over three years ago, I lost a baby to an early miscarriage. I was so sad. It hurt so much. But it started my spiritual searching down a new path, and I found the Catholic Church. Now, I could have gotten angry or bitter, but what good would that have done? Instead, I was determined to make sense of what happened to me, and my searching led me down a path I never would have imagined, having previously been a self-professed pagan. Now I thank God for taking my baby home to Heaven early, so that He could draw me closer to Him through that loss.
Earlier this year, I lost another baby due to miscarriage. This time it hurt even more. My husband and I had been trying to have another baby, and I had prayed and longed for that baby. Yet, I trusted the Lord. He has done amazing things with the loss of that first little life. I had absolute confidence in Him that He was doing amazing things this time around, too. Ever since that miscarriage, I have realized that God is leading me down another unexpected path; a path that makes me realize how much He loves me. I was never told about God’s love in my childhood, which is precisely why I lost my faith as a young adult. I only had a vague intellectual understanding of that even as I converted to Catholicism. God has been, for this whole year since my miscarriage, gently teaching me to open up my heart and feel how loved I am. And that is just the things that I am aware of happening now. Imagine what I will realize in a year or two as I look back.
This example is just one of my small crosses. God uses trials and sufferings to draw us closer to Him. But he can also apply the merit of suffering offered up for the sake of others. For example, the mother who miscarries might offer up her suffering for the sake of all the mothers in China who suffer through forced abortions and forced sterilizations. Anytime she feels the pain of her loss, she can say a prayer for those wounded women and their murdered babies and their mutilated reproductive organs. God loves for us to pray for each other out of our own pain.
Our Lord endured terrible agony in His Passion. He did it for love of us. He offered up all His agony and all His prayers for us. He did not paste a smile on top. He did not pretend He was not in agony. He wept. He said “I thirst”. I am sure He cried out in pain as He was whipped and nailed to the cross. He even fell under the weight of His cross. But still He persevered, because He loved. That is what Christ asked of us. He promises His burden is easy and His yoke is light. St. Francis de Sales tells us that our Lord, who was trained as a carpenter, has selected the wood, has carefully measured and carefully cut, and has beautifully made a cross suited to each one of us, and He is the one who lovingly places it upon our backs. Then, after such lovingkindness and concern for our wellbeing, does He expect us to carry it alone? No! He asks us to let Him help us bear our cross, and He even asks us to let Him carry us along with our burden. If the Blessed Virgin and her holy son were not exempt from the law of suffering in this world, then who are we to believe we should or could avoid suffering. Suffering will come, but suffering precedes grace. Whenever I am in the middle of suffering, I hold onto that. I pray to the Lord “Lord, I am suffering so much that You must be bringing me a truckload of grace!” And He never fails. But resisting suffering or trying to run away from suffering, well, it just causes more pain and confusion. Suffering only makes sense when it is surrendered to and offered up. Then the beauty of God’s plan can come into focus. We human beings are made in such a way that with God’s help, we can be brought to a place of being thankful for our sufferings, because we know how closely they unite us to Christ and how much merit is earned through uniting our sufferings to Christ. This is not stoicism or masochism or denial. This is genuinely entering into the experience of suffering, acknowledging the pain, and bringing it back to the Lord in a precious gift that He will transform into great blessings that extend far beyond our selves.
God bless you, Bob.
Edited to add: the self is not evil, Bob. I don’t know where that idea comes from, but it does not make sense to me. God made us in His image. God, outside of time and in eternity, had a “Bob” thought. That thought made Him happy. He decides “I will make Bob, then, so that Bob can be happy with Me forever in Heaven.” And so He formed you, the irreplaceable totally unique YOU, in your mother’s womb. And He set before a choice. “Choose Me, and be happy,” is His invitation to you. But He will never force you to choose Him or to be happy with Him. He loves you too much for that. If He forced you, you would not really be making a free choice. So He waits, patiently and lovingly, for you to open your heart to Him. In this world, when we have trouble trusting, it is because other humans have injured us. Sometimes we transfer our anger and distrustfulness upon God. But that is actually backward. God, our Heavenly Father, is the model of loving human fathers. It is not imperfect, failed human fathers that form the model of our loving Heavenly Father. So when we are hurt, when we lose our ability to trust, God wants to heal us of those wounds, if we will let him. Bob, this year has been eye-opening for me as I have learned just how much God loves me. I pray this next year will be as transformative for you.
God does not owe us an explanation for the work He does in our lives. We do not need an explanation before we are able to be obedient.
Here is an example. Just over three years ago, I lost a baby to an early miscarriage. I was so sad. It hurt so much. But it started my spiritual searching down a new path, and I found the Catholic Church. Now, I could have gotten angry or bitter, but what good would that have done? Instead, I was determined to make sense of what happened to me, and my searching led me down a path I never would have imagined, having previously been a self-professed pagan. Now I thank God for taking my baby home to Heaven early, so that He could draw me closer to Him through that loss.
Earlier this year, I lost another baby due to miscarriage. This time it hurt even more. My husband and I had been trying to have another baby, and I had prayed and longed for that baby. Yet, I trusted the Lord. He has done amazing things with the loss of that first little life. I had absolute confidence in Him that He was doing amazing things this time around, too. Ever since that miscarriage, I have realized that God is leading me down another unexpected path; a path that makes me realize how much He loves me. I was never told about God’s love in my childhood, which is precisely why I lost my faith as a young adult. I only had a vague intellectual understanding of that even as I converted to Catholicism. God has been, for this whole year since my miscarriage, gently teaching me to open up my heart and feel how loved I am. And that is just the things that I am aware of happening now. Imagine what I will realize in a year or two as I look back.
This example is just one of my small crosses. God uses trials and sufferings to draw us closer to Him. But he can also apply the merit of suffering offered up for the sake of others. For example, the mother who miscarries might offer up her suffering for the sake of all the mothers in China who suffer through forced abortions and forced sterilizations. Anytime she feels the pain of her loss, she can say a prayer for those wounded women and their murdered babies and their mutilated reproductive organs. God loves for us to pray for each other out of our own pain.
Our Lord endured terrible agony in His Passion. He did it for love of us. He offered up all His agony and all His prayers for us. He did not paste a smile on top. He did not pretend He was not in agony. He wept. He said “I thirst”. I am sure He cried out in pain as He was whipped and nailed to the cross. He even fell under the weight of His cross. But still He persevered, because He loved. That is what Christ asked of us. He promises His burden is easy and His yoke is light. St. Francis de Sales tells us that our Lord, who was trained as a carpenter, has selected the wood, has carefully measured and carefully cut, and has beautifully made a cross suited to each one of us, and He is the one who lovingly places it upon our backs. Then, after such lovingkindness and concern for our wellbeing, does He expect us to carry it alone? No! He asks us to let Him help us bear our cross, and He even asks us to let Him carry us along with our burden. If the Blessed Virgin and her holy son were not exempt from the law of suffering in this world, then who are we to believe we should or could avoid suffering. Suffering will come, but suffering precedes grace. Whenever I am in the middle of suffering, I hold onto that. I pray to the Lord “Lord, I am suffering so much that You must be bringing me a truckload of grace!” And He never fails. But resisting suffering or trying to run away from suffering, well, it just causes more pain and confusion. Suffering only makes sense when it is surrendered to and offered up. Then the beauty of God’s plan can come into focus. We human beings are made in such a way that with God’s help, we can be brought to a place of being thankful for our sufferings, because we know how closely they unite us to Christ and how much merit is earned through uniting our sufferings to Christ. This is not stoicism or masochism or denial. This is genuinely entering into the experience of suffering, acknowledging the pain, and bringing it back to the Lord in a precious gift that He will transform into great blessings that extend far beyond our selves.
God bless you, Bob.
Edited to add: the self is not evil, Bob. I don’t know where that idea comes from, but it does not make sense to me. God made us in His image. God, outside of time and in eternity, had a “Bob” thought. That thought made Him happy. He decides “I will make Bob, then, so that Bob can be happy with Me forever in Heaven.” And so He formed you, the irreplaceable totally unique YOU, in your mother’s womb. And He set before a choice. “Choose Me, and be happy,” is His invitation to you. But He will never force you to choose Him or to be happy with Him. He loves you too much for that. If He forced you, you would not really be making a free choice. So He waits, patiently and lovingly, for you to open your heart to Him. In this world, when we have trouble trusting, it is because other humans have injured us. Sometimes we transfer our anger and distrustfulness upon God. But that is actually backward. God, our Heavenly Father, is the model of loving human fathers. It is not imperfect, failed human fathers that form the model of our loving Heavenly Father. So when we are hurt, when we lose our ability to trust, God wants to heal us of those wounds, if we will let him. Bob, this year has been eye-opening for me as I have learned just how much God loves me. I pray this next year will be as transformative for you.
L
Lady_Love
Guest
Suffering is not a goal in itself. The church speaks frequently of suffering because it is the hardest for us to accept. The fear of suffering can prevent us from doing what is right, can prevent us from living fully our own individuality.
A man in love willingly subjects himself to hard work, denying himself certain pleasures, to give something special to the one he loves. Because it is done for love, it is not that painful and often even pleasurable. If a man was working and giving to someone he did not love, his work would be more like suffering.
There seems to be a difference between suffering and sacrifice. Suffering is the experience we have when we are unwilling to give but sacrifice is what we do when we are willing. One brings misery and the other brings joy.
I would conclude that “sacrifice” is really the goal, not suffering. Jesus sacrificed himself as a willing gift to His beloved. There was no misery in the giving but joy. This is not to say that when He gave of Himself it was full of pleasure.
This does not mean that you never get attached to something or someone. Rather, you love with attachment but willingly give it away as a gift to the beloved. This would be the best definition for detachment: willingly letting go/give.
A man in love willingly subjects himself to hard work, denying himself certain pleasures, to give something special to the one he loves. Because it is done for love, it is not that painful and often even pleasurable. If a man was working and giving to someone he did not love, his work would be more like suffering.
There seems to be a difference between suffering and sacrifice. Suffering is the experience we have when we are unwilling to give but sacrifice is what we do when we are willing. One brings misery and the other brings joy.
I would conclude that “sacrifice” is really the goal, not suffering. Jesus sacrificed himself as a willing gift to His beloved. There was no misery in the giving but joy. This is not to say that when He gave of Himself it was full of pleasure.
This does not mean that you never get attached to something or someone. Rather, you love with attachment but willingly give it away as a gift to the beloved. This would be the best definition for detachment: willingly letting go/give.
B
BobCatholic
Guest
From whom? My family? I can’t do that. Its against the faith to do that.
Can’t. Have a family to provide for.
I did want to go to Saudi Arabia, preach the gospel there and get my head chopped off by Muslims because I did not want to live anymore and wanted to go home to the Lord.
So he expects me to be a masochist?
So my suffering is the price of God’s grace. I thought God’s grace was a gift…
H
HolyRosaryChild
Guest
With tears in my eyes I read your most beautiful words MommaMaree, love and wishes to you on Jesus’ Birthday and for Eternity xxx
I
InJesusItrust
Guest
I have a personal theory behind suffering, based on the saying of the saints. It is not doctrine, but maybe these reflections may help you cope with suffering. Suffering allows us to partake of Christ’s nature. He did not come as a conquering prince but He came as a suffering servant. Now by joining our suffering to His we too will share in His glory. The more we suffer innocently the more we will become like Him. There is no escaping suffering, for if we are not prepared for heaven in this life we go to purgatory. In heaven there is no suffering so we cannot gain any more merit. Once in heaven we will have our share of glory and no more, and, based on the saints’ claims, they will be unequal. Do not underestimate God’s poetic justice: those who suffer greatly will be comforted greatly.
I encourage you to read up more on what the saints say and reflect on the Passion. Why did God choose to suffer? And what might this imply about it’s mystery?
When I read the bible for the first back as a completely shattered person, and looked back in my sorrow-filled life, in Jesus I saw myself.
I encourage you to read up more on what the saints say and reflect on the Passion. Why did God choose to suffer? And what might this imply about it’s mystery?
When I read the bible for the first back as a completely shattered person, and looked back in my sorrow-filled life, in Jesus I saw myself.
J
JohnMPhilomena
Guest
I think you hit the nail on the head!
E
Edward_H
Guest
God desires daily union with us. This union is more than some sort of abstract, distant, inert “state”; it is instead a dynamic exchange of persons. God doesn’t just desire this sort of exchange with us after we die. No. He wants it minute to minute, sharing with us His divine life of love now.
Some people have a poor or lazy or selfish understanding of heaven, imagining and hoping that heaven will in essence be God “tucking us in for a big nap.” But I suspect divine union with God after we die will be much more. We will be giving ourselves to God; and He will be Giving Himself to us, just as the Trinity gives itself to each other even now.
So suffering must in some way be able to serve God’s purpose, which again is to seek union with us, here on earth as well as in heaven.
Suffering, thus, must serve love. And it can with our cooperation and God’s grace.
Think of the little sufferings we face every day. It’s easier to get the “whole idea of suffering” by thinking of the little sufferings.
These little pains, contradictions, and annoyances, if taken on manfully or womanly, can be offered to God as a present. Yes they can. They become then a contribution (think of the measly fishes and loaves the little boy in the Gospel offered, or the two little coins offered by the poor woman - think how these 2 acts have helped Christ’s mission to save us all) to God’s salvation of us.
These acts of ours become part of redemption!!
Some people have a poor or lazy or selfish understanding of heaven, imagining and hoping that heaven will in essence be God “tucking us in for a big nap.” But I suspect divine union with God after we die will be much more. We will be giving ourselves to God; and He will be Giving Himself to us, just as the Trinity gives itself to each other even now.
So suffering must in some way be able to serve God’s purpose, which again is to seek union with us, here on earth as well as in heaven.
Suffering, thus, must serve love. And it can with our cooperation and God’s grace.
Think of the little sufferings we face every day. It’s easier to get the “whole idea of suffering” by thinking of the little sufferings.
These little pains, contradictions, and annoyances, if taken on manfully or womanly, can be offered to God as a present. Yes they can. They become then a contribution (think of the measly fishes and loaves the little boy in the Gospel offered, or the two little coins offered by the poor woman - think how these 2 acts have helped Christ’s mission to save us all) to God’s salvation of us.
These acts of ours become part of redemption!!
L
louise23marie
Guest
Two angels
I have also been suffering from depression becuase of bereavement.I have come across a
prayer which helps me
its very simple I offer my wholeself to God and say Let All that is within me cry Holy
(it means offering everything just as you are, suffering too -,just offering it with humility and trusting in Him)
The next part is the hard bit …you say THank you for the WONDER that is me!
(i know with depression that’s not easy) but believe me if you can say it the Holy Spirit does the rest (might take a few times before you start to mean it
The final part of the prayer is listen to the Holy Spirit say to you
YOU ARE PRECIOUS IN MY EYES! Sometime this prayer brings a little joy
When I feel really low the thing I remember is:when we are at our weakest God is
stronger than ever in us, Our weakness brings us closer to him and he works through us in a powerful way!
I know other people not understanding is the hardest thing
I have also been suffering from depression becuase of bereavement.I have come across a
prayer which helps me
its very simple I offer my wholeself to God and say Let All that is within me cry Holy
(it means offering everything just as you are, suffering too -,just offering it with humility and trusting in Him)
The next part is the hard bit …you say THank you for the WONDER that is me!
(i know with depression that’s not easy) but believe me if you can say it the Holy Spirit does the rest (might take a few times before you start to mean it
The final part of the prayer is listen to the Holy Spirit say to you
YOU ARE PRECIOUS IN MY EYES! Sometime this prayer brings a little joy
When I feel really low the thing I remember is:when we are at our weakest God is
stronger than ever in us, Our weakness brings us closer to him and he works through us in a powerful way!
I know other people not understanding is the hardest thing
The_Reginator
Active member
Another thing to think about is to offer EVERYTHING up.
Taken from my old St. Joseph’s Missal, this is my morning offering:Most Holy and adorable Trinity
One God in Three Persons
I firmly believe that you are here present.
I adore you with the most profound humility.
I praise you and give you thanks for the favours you have bestowed on me.
Your goodness has brought me safely to the beginning of this day.
Behold oh Lord, I offer you my whole being,
together with such crosses and contradictions that I may meet with in the course of this day.
Give them, oh Lord, your blessing.
May your Divine Love animate them.
And may they tend to the greater honour and glory of Your sovereign majesty.
Amen.
If you use this prayer you are offering up your all, including your ‘crosses and contradictions’. (The word ‘contradictions’ here has puzzled me for some time now. I often take it to mean my temptations and the times I contradict my beliefs by giving in to temptation.)
The part I really love is “May your Divine Love animate them.” Ponder God’s Divine Love animating your thoughts, words, actions, and your response to suffering.
Taken from my old St. Joseph’s Missal, this is my morning offering:Most Holy and adorable Trinity
One God in Three Persons
I firmly believe that you are here present.
I adore you with the most profound humility.
I praise you and give you thanks for the favours you have bestowed on me.
Your goodness has brought me safely to the beginning of this day.
Behold oh Lord, I offer you my whole being,
together with such crosses and contradictions that I may meet with in the course of this day.
Give them, oh Lord, your blessing.
May your Divine Love animate them.
And may they tend to the greater honour and glory of Your sovereign majesty.
Amen.
If you use this prayer you are offering up your all, including your ‘crosses and contradictions’. (The word ‘contradictions’ here has puzzled me for some time now. I often take it to mean my temptations and the times I contradict my beliefs by giving in to temptation.)
The part I really love is “May your Divine Love animate them.” Ponder God’s Divine Love animating your thoughts, words, actions, and your response to suffering.
E
Edward_H
Guest
Yes…contradictions can also mean things that go against our will, desires…we try help someone get to the doctor, but that morning we find our car tire flat, the spare tire missing and our cell phone battery dead!
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