Official Catholic texts

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paul c
It is heresy if you are a Catholic and oppose Church teaching
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From post #17:
“The CCC #88 (1997) clearly combines exactly with Pope John Paul’s Motu Proprio (= on his own authority) Apostolic Letter Ad Tuendam Fidem, 1998 (ATF), which requires the assent of divine and Catholic faith to believe (credenda sunt) dogmas (a category one truth). (Canon #750.1).”

Therefore, it is heresy ONLY if a person dissents from dogma, not infallible doctrine which belongs to category two – to be firmly embraced and held; nor to category 3 which is non-infallible doctrine – the category 3 truths are non-definitive (non-infallible) and require intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith.
 
Vince1022 said:
No, I don’t think that is what the Catholic Church teaches.

The Catholic Church teaches that everyone is obliged to follow their conscience.

The Catholic Church does not teach that following one’s conscience in a case that may oppose Church teaching is heresy. See Canon Law 751.
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Let’s take an example to illustrate.

Are you saying that if a Catholic firmly believes according to their conscience that its okay for a woman to have an abortion then they are not committing a grave sin (ie. heresy for rejecting such teaching).
 
Bookcat said:
No.

It is made up of various things…some infallible some not…but it is as Pope John Paul II said “a sure norm” for the Catholic Faith.
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So all the Catechism is is a bunch of opinion with just some doctrine and dogma slipped in? I thought all teachings in the Catechism were true and that we are bound by obligation to believe.
Vince1022 said:
The Catholic Church teaches that everyone is obliged to follow their conscience.
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Huh? I guess I never heard that before. I thought we were just supposed to follow Church teaching in all situation. Please clarify.
 
McatholicN said:
So all the Catechism is is a bunch of opinion with just some doctrine and dogma slipped in? I thought all teachings in the Catechism were true and that we are bound by obligation to believe.
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How do you conclude this from what was presented?
Huh? I guess I never heard that before. I thought we were just supposed to follow Church teaching in all situation. Please clarify.
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The CCC states:
1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”
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Please read this in context with the rest of the section on conscience.
 
davidv said:
How do you conclude this from what was presented?

Well, peope said it wasn’t infallible. Isn’t infallible just another word for “free from error”?
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davidv:
The CCC states:
Please read this in context with the rest of the section on conscience
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.

Does this mean the Church teaches moral relativism?
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paul_c said:
No one is obliged to become Catholic against their conscience (748 S2)
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Agreed, I never said otherwise.
paul_c said:
While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ’s faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine. (752)
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Yes, of course, again I never said otherwise.
paul_c said:
It is heresy if you are a Catholic and oppose Church teaching, whether your conscience is in agreement or not. A poorly informed conscience is no excuse to oppose church teaching…
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The Catholic Church teaches, according to Canon Law:
Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.
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Yes, a poorly informed conscience is no excuse to oppose Church teaching. But it is also not grounds for heresy. As the Church teaches.
 
Bookcat said:
There are of course more than one way a thing can be infallible. It is import too to note that those things in the Catechism which are infallible are not necessarily noted in the CCC that “this is infallible”…prob most often not noted so…

(of course the CCC is a sure norm …so let us live the whole :)…not that anyone was saying otherwise…)
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According to Catholic teaching, “things” are not infallible.

The Church has the charism of teaching infallibly, so some teachings may be taught infallibly.

Hope that helps.
 
Vince1022
It is heresy if you are a Catholic and oppose Church teaching
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Not at all necessarily so.

See Post #21— “it is heresy ONLY if a person dissents from dogma, not infallible doctrine which belongs to category two – to be firmly embraced and held; nor to category 3 which is non-infallible doctrine – the category 3 truths are non-definitive (non-infallible) and require intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith. [Refer Canon #751].
 
thistle said:
Let’s take an example to illustrate.

Are you saying that if a Catholic firmly believes according to their conscience that its okay for a woman to have an abortion then they are not committing a grave sin (ie. heresy for rejecting such teaching).
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They are committing an action that is objectively (and morally) wrong according to Catholic teaching.

Whether it is personally a grave sin is debatable. I would need more information before pretending to be able to offer such a judgment, which would be provisional anyway. I think it’s really up to God.
 
Vince1022
I never posted the quote you posted. Can you give a reference to it on this Thread? Thanks
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Sorry, Vince 1022; you are correct.
Thistle
Are you saying that if a Catholic firmly believes according to their conscience that its okay for a woman to have an abortion then they are not committing a grave sin (ie. heresy for rejecting such teaching)
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An objectively grave sin may be against what has to be believed on divine and Catholic faith (dogmas) which to deny is heresy, whereas the infallible doctrines are to be “firmly embraced and held” a denial of which is objectively a grave sin of dissent.
 
Abu said:
Sorry, Vince 1022; you are correct.

An objectively grave sin may be against what has to be believed on divine and Catholic faith (dogmas) which to deny is heresy, whereas the infallible doctrines are to be “firmly embraced and held” a denial of which is objectively a grave sin of dissent.
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Ok, thanks.
 
Abu said:
An objectively grave sin may be against what has to be believed on divine and Catholic faith (dogmas) which to deny is heresy,
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Heresy can only be committed by those who profess to believe the Catholic faith, not simply by those who reject the Catholic (Christian) faith.
 
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