Official Lutheran Anti-Papacy Document

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so is this a book or what?
But I do believe that the vatican had some sort of written document signed saying that Luther was right…That you go to heaven by grace, not rightous acts…
 
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Corleone:
so is this a book or what?
But I do believe that the vatican had some sort of written document signed saying that Luther was right…That you go to heaven by grace, not rightous acts…
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They have always taught that a person must live their faith in order to recieve salvation. Salvation is a process in Catholicism where we are made like Christ. It is done over our lifetime. In order to enter heaven we must be perfect.
 
Catholic Dude:
A few reasons why I consider them sound because:
1)they have historical foundation
2)they take a systematic approach to things
3)they are supported by historical Church writings
4)the openly claim to be the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Jesus founded and have a continuous line of succession
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Plus I would add that they are supported by scripture.
 
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Corleone:
so is this a book or what?
But I do believe that the vatican had some sort of written document signed saying that Luther was right…That you go to heaven by grace, not rightous acts…
Click to expand...
You must remember though that works of salvation are not considered to be seperate from Grace. It is in co-operation with Grace that we do good works. Good works without Grace mean nothing, but God gave us free will to accept or reject Him. By doing good works (as an act of love or even fear for God) we are accepting His Grace.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
A few reasons why I consider them [Roman doctrines] sound because:
1)they have historical foundation
2)they take a systematic approach to things
3)they are supported by historical Church writings
4)the openly claim to be the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Jesus founded and have a continuous line of succession
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I, as a Lutheran, am obviously of the opinion that the Lutherans confess the historic faith.

But I wonder about your #2.

Personally I think it is the “systematic approach” that often leads Roman Catholics down the wrong alley. What is a “systematic approach”, and why is it necessary? Why not take the doctrines as they are simply given to us by the word of God?

When I hear “systematic approach” as a reason you think a doctrine is sound, I worry. It seems to me that involves taking a doctrine and systematizing it until it sounds acceptable to human reason and human wisdom.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1 Corinthians 2:13
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
 
Angainor said:
I, as a Lutheran, am obviously of the opinion that the Lutherans confess the historic faith.

But I wonder about your #2.

Personally I think it is the “systematic approach” that often leads Roman Catholics down the wrong alley. What is a “systematic approach”, and why is it necessary? Why not take the doctrines as they are simply given to us by the word of God?

When I hear “systematic approach” as a reason you think a doctrine is sound, I worry. It seems to me that involves taking a doctrine and systematizing it until it sounds acceptable to human reason and human wisdom.1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1 Corinthians 2:13
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
Click to expand...
No offense but responses like yours are what scare me away from Protestantism more than anything: it is the refusal to want to get into theology beyond a surface level…

…dont get me wrong, we are not all teachers, theologians, greek experts, etc (at least I am not)…but if you are NOT then you have no business condemning Catholic theology on the “reformation” level, especially in the way the Pretend Reformers did. Basically what you are saying is they led people away from the Catholic Church yet their own doctrine was not thought out well and in fact had serous cracks.

Catholics are proud to admit Faith and Reason are complimentary, a “systematic approach” is very much required both to avoid heresy and grown in riches of the Christian faith.

I had a thread on here a few weeks ago about Lutherans and Justification and I didnt get any direct response to my simple question. I even went to a Protestant forum, Lutheran section, and they gave me the run around as well as if I was at a Six Flags theme park. Such an attitude towards theology makes me uneasy.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
No offense but responses like yours are what scare me away from Protestantism more than anything: it is the refusal to want to get into theology beyond a surface level…

…dont get me wrong, we are not all teachers, theologians, greek experts, etc (at least I am not)…but if you are NOT then you have no business condemning Catholic theology on the “reformation” level, especially in the way the Pretend Reformers did. Basically what you are saying is they led people away from the Catholic Church yet their own doctrine was not thought out well and in fact had serous cracks.

Catholics are proud to admit Faith and Reason are complimentary, a “systematic approach” is very much required both to avoid heresy and grown in riches of the Christian faith.

I had a thread on here a few weeks ago about Lutherans and Justification and I didnt get any direct response to my simple question. I even went to a Protestant forum, Lutheran section, and they gave me the run around as well as if I was at a Six Flags theme park. Such an attitude towards theology makes me uneasy.
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Don’t think that just because a doctrine is not systematized that it is not deep.

I remember your justification question. You got a straight, unsystematized answer.
 
Hello Catholic Dude,

I was browsing your profile over on CARM, and thought I’d come over and check out this board.

Just wanted to say hello.

Blessings to you,
John

P.S.
I gave you a referral when I signed up 😉
 
JBaker45 said:
Hello Catholic Dude,

I was browsing your profile over on CARM, and thought I’d come over and check out this board.

Just wanted to say hello.

Blessings to you,
John

P.S.
I gave you a referral when I signed up 😉
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Just a quick warning, this place gets addicting…🙂
 
SPH1 said:
The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod still officially proclaims the Pope to be the anti-Christ:

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=579

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2217

So does the Lutheran Church Wisconsin Synod:

wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2617&collectionID=795&contentID=4441&shortcutID=5297

Taken from my Creeds page:

catholic-view.com/creeds.html
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Its pretty clear they needed someone to focus their anger at, claiming the Pope is the Anti-Christ is perfect propaganda.
 
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