Officium Divinum (Divine Office)?

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So I bought this breviary on the whim and don’t know much about it. I have some experience with Shorter Christian Prayer. This looks more eloquent nice artwork, pre Vatican II with Latin and English. Does anyone have experience/ suggestions? Thanks
 
Also is there anywhere I can hear it online so I can attempt the Latin?
 
You surely understand that the breviary you have is considerably different than the current 4-volume set in English.

Your “old” breviary is the one I followed for years … and in fact still today find myself falling into occasionally when reciting the Invitatory or the Gospel Canticle at Morning Prayer.

While the old form is certainly worthy and pleasing to God as you pray it, it is NOT however the same current English prayer that your brothers and sisters in the Mystical Body are praying, so you are, in that sense, somewhat distant from the rest of us.

If you find the language pleasant (and I agree that in many ways it was superior to the latest translations!) why not use it as a platform for contemplation?

However, other than a few anti-Vatican-II holdouts, I doubt that there are any groups still chanting the Latin prayers and psalms from your edition.
 
Duly noted. Now what about the Latin? Are they different prayers or different translations? Also I got the new Roman Missal. In the preface it said this is truly the best book of prayers where the whole Church converceses with God.

What is your experience with the missal? Also which do you preferre? What’s the benefits of both? To me there is more sense of the whole Church in union.

Thanks
 
Bill, are you saying that those who prefer to pray the older Breviary as Pope Benedict allowed in Summorum Pontificum are “anti-Vatican II”? I wouldn’t be to quick to parrot the naysayers who look with suspicion on those who like the Extraordinary Form of the Divine Office.

I have this prayerbook, Officium Divinum. It’s published by the SSPX and is a good introduction to the EF of the Office since it doesn’t overload you too much too soon. If you want to get a feeling for the flow of things, I’d suggest this website:

www.divinumofficium.com

You will get a feel for how you navigate the Office. Realize that the offices of Matins (Office of Readings), Lauds, Terce, None, and Vespers are absent form the weekdays in your volume. That’s ok. Laymen are not obligated to the whole Office. Frankly, the older Office was a big chunk of time that was hard for priests, much less working laymen, to fulfill.

As to the Latin pronunciation, I believe there was a flashcard that came with the prayerbook that gives you rules for Latin pronunciation. See if you can find it and keep that nearby if you have a word that is hard to say.

The important thing is to pray it. Your words are directed toward God and you are the mouthpiece of the Church as you praise God with his Brides official worship (and yes, the older breviary prayed in Latin is official, even if the majority of Catholics are praying a different form of the Office. Benedictines and Eastern Catholics are also praying a different form of the Office, so I don’t see the big deal unless you want to pray with a parish using the modern form).
 
I have looked everywhere for a pre-vatican II Latin/English Divine Office.
 
Bill, are you saying that those who prefer to pray the older Breviary as Pope Benedict allowed in Summorum Pontificum are “anti-Vatican II”? I wouldn’t be to quick to parrot the naysayers who look with suspicion on those who like the Extraordinary Form of the Divine Office.

I have this prayerbook, Officium Divinum. It’s published by the SSPX and is a good introduction to the EF of the Office since it doesn’t overload you too much too soon. If you want to get a feeling for the flow of things, I’d suggest this website:
FWIW, Officium Divinum can also be translated as Divine Duty. 😉
 
I have looked everywhere for a pre-vatican II Latin/English Divine Office.
Please read the following article…

More on the Divine Office: Private Recitation by the Laity

I recently picked up a copy of Lauds, Vespers and Compline in English. I love it. So much that I’m having it rebound in leather. While the options for praying the pre VII Office in English are limited there are options available. Copies can usually be found on Abe Books.
 
While the old form is certainly worthy and pleasing to God as you pray it, it is NOT however the same current English prayer that your brothers and sisters in the Mystical Body are praying, so you are, in that sense, somewhat distant from the rest of us.
This is silly and is more ideologically driven than prudentially based.
However, other than a few anti-Vatican-II holdouts, I doubt that there are any groups still chanting the Latin prayers and psalms from your edition.
This is plainly incorrect. There are many religious groups who chant, in Latin, the prayers and Psalms from either the older or newer Breviary. There are also many priests on their own who do the same. Anti Vatican II holdouts? People are still saying that? Pawh. Of course they do exist, but your assertion thereafter removes credibility from your post.
 
While the old form is certainly worthy and pleasing to God as you pray it, it is NOT however the same current English prayer that your brothers and sisters in the Mystical Body are praying, so you are, in that sense, **somewhat distant **from the rest of us.
If you believe this, then you are also distancing yourself from the Poles and Hispanics who insist on saying the OD only in their language. Anglophones make up only a fraction of the Mystical Body and it is most arrogant to insist it be done in a certain English or be ostracized “from the rest of us.”
 
My goodness!

It seems that, in my ignorance, I have managed to offend many of you — perhaps this is why I rarely post anything to these pages.

At risk of further injury, I will point out that I was expressing personal opinions, about a specific set of Latin translations of psalms and prayers as contained in the inquirer’s book(s). This was not an effort to denigrate the entire non-English-speaking population of the world, nor those members of the Catholic Church.

I was not pontificating.

And – assuredly I do not question the sincerity or sanctity of any here.

I ask only that others equally respect me; no more, no less.
Pax Christi sit semper vobiscum.
 
Duly noted. Now what about the Latin? Are they different prayers or different translations? Also I got the new Roman Missal. In the preface it said this is truly the best book of prayers where the whole Church converceses with God.

What is your experience with the missal? Also which do you preferre? What’s the benefits of both? To me there is more sense of the whole Church in union.

Thanks
If you go to the Vatican’s website and read Summorum Pontificum, you’ll find that the 1960 Roman Breviary has been definitely made available along with the 1962 Mass (remember, the Divine Office is a liturgical act, an extension of the Mass so to speak), so there should be no qualms about saying it; you are praying along with all your brothers and sisters who adhere to the usus antiquor throughout the world, you’re not isolated.

Now, as for the difference between the Roman Breviary and the Liturgy of the Hours, it is much the same kind of difference that exists between the 1962 and 1970 missals: i.e. the prayers are in fact very different in place, similar in others, but it is not simply a matter of different languages; the LOTH was first published in Latin before translation occured.

You’ll find that the older office conforms to the millenia old practice of reciting the psalms weekly, rather than the innovation of the four-week cycle that LOTH uses, so it takes a little more time to say it. Also, the old office follows the old liturgical calendar, so it will be in line with the readings for the day at the EF Mass, you will be in the season of Septuagesima now, not ordinary time, for example.

I hope this helps. An expert could do better but this should make the main outlines clear.

I wish you the best. Praying with the office has been one of the best things I ever decided to do.
 
While the old form is certainly worthy and pleasing to God as you pray it, it is NOT however the same current English prayer that your brothers and sisters in the Mystical Body are praying, so you are, in that sense, somewhat distant from the rest of us.

If you find the language pleasant (and I agree that in many ways it was superior to the latest translations!) why not use it as a platform for contemplation?

However, other than a few anti-Vatican-II holdouts, I doubt that there are any groups still chanting the Latin prayers and psalms from your edition.
You would, apparently, be amazed at how many people use the old version. And unless a person is bound to recitation of the current version (as I am, as a Secular Discalced Carmelite), there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the version that best aids you in prayer.
 
You surely understand that the breviary you have is considerably different than the current 4-volume set in English.

Your “old” breviary is the one I followed for years … and in fact still today find myself falling into occasionally when reciting the Invitatory or the Gospel Canticle at Morning Prayer.

While the old form is certainly worthy and pleasing to God as you pray it, it is NOT however the same current English prayer that your brothers and sisters in the Mystical Body are praying, so you are, in that sense, somewhat distant from the rest of us.

If you find the language pleasant (and I agree that in many ways it was superior to the latest translations!) why not use it as a platform for contemplation?

However, other than a few anti-Vatican-II holdouts, I doubt that there are any groups still chanting the Latin prayers and psalms from your edition.
I never took your opinion as being negative. Thanks and I hope no one has discouraged you from posting further.

I need some help today I said the sext on the Internet they have a hymn but I could not find the hymn in the divine office? Also I like when it’s chanted but I am no good at this. I don’t know how to read the notation for one. Any help in that area would be great.
 
If you go to the Vatican’s website and read Summorum Pontificum, you’ll find that the 1960 Roman Breviary has been definitely made available along with the 1962 Mass (remember, the Divine Office is a liturgical act, an extension of the Mass so to speak), so there should be no qualms about saying it; you are praying along with all your brothers and sisters who adhere to the usus antiquor throughout the world, you’re not isolated.

Now, as for the difference between the Roman Breviary and the Liturgy of the Hours, it is much the same kind of difference that exists between the 1962 and 1970 missals: i.e. the prayers are in fact very different in place, similar in others, but it is not simply a matter of different languages; the LOTH was first published in Latin before translation occured.

You’ll find that the older office conforms to the millenia old practice of reciting the psalms weekly, rather than the innovation of the four-week cycle that LOTH uses, so it takes a little more time to say it. Also, the old office follows the old liturgical calendar, so it will be in line with the readings for the day at the EF Mass, you will be in the season of Septuagesima now, not ordinary time, for example.

I hope this helps. An expert could do better but this should make the main outlines clear.

I wish you the best. Praying with the office has been one of the best things I ever decided to do.
Actually the psalter of Pius the X (1910) which is the one used for the 1960 Roman Breviary broke with many traditions. In particular the 3 “Laudate” psalms (148-148-150) were broken up at Lauds; for millennia they had been kept together as the last three psalms of Lauds (in fact for a time they where Lauds which was tagged on the end of Vigils). The only breviary that keeps them intact and together is the original Benedictine monastic breviary which is still prayed in many places, either in reformed post-Vatican II form (Solesmes, St. Wandrille in France to name a couple) or in pre-Vatican II form (Barroux, Fontgonmbault, in France, Clear Creek in the USA).

The Piux X psalter also broke up psalms in to more or less equal lengths (something that is often criticized with the 4-week LOTH but is by no means an innovation of that breviary), and that required ditching traditional antiphons and composing new ones with no real grounding in tradition. It caused a major hurricane to rip through the antiphonary.

Most of the reforms, in fact, that made the 4-week LOTH possible were in fact instituted by Pius X, and his reforms were no less controversial then, than the LOTH was 60 years later.

I find it tenuous at best to call the 1960 breviary part of a “millennia-old tradition”. IMHO it really has too many novelties to allow it to carry that attribute. The traditional Benedictine Office is the only one still in use that can make that claim, and moreover, it has the advantage of having been adapted to the post-Vatican II liturgical years and prayers. So you can use an adapted version with the 1970 Missal, or you can use the pre-Vatican II version with the 1962 Missal. It provides a MUCH greater continuity with a millennial tradition, as it dates back to the mid-500s, and many other breviaries grew from it.

For me the 1960 Breviary is a short anomaly using a 50-year transitional psalter; 50 years is very short in Church life. It started the trend of abbreviating the psalter for secular use; for example 9 instead of 12 psalms at Matins (the Benedictine Office is still 12 psalms).

That the reforms eventually led to a 4-week cycle for secular use, also made it significantly within greater reach of the laity, and that in itself is a good thing. I would much rather use a 4-week cycle that exposes me to all the richness of the entire psalter, than being only able to pray a portion of the 1960 (or Benedictine) Breviary which forces me to miss out on many beautiful psalms.

That’s not to say that there aren’t any shortcomings with the 1970 LOTH, there are: removal of imprecatory psalms and verses, a NT canticle at Vespers that chants awkwardly, and again the need to come up with some new antiphons (fortunately that has been corrected thanks to Solesmes and the Communité St-Martin, both of which have released excellent books allowing one to chant the LOTH in Gregorian chant, with new antiphons on traditional melodies), to name a few.

FWIW, I use a one-week post-Vatican II Benedictine psalter (Schema B), the same one used at our abbey. And the abbey (and I) still do it in Latin Gregorian chant for Lauds and Vespers. Like the traditional Benedictine Office, and unlike the 1960 Breviary, it does not arbitrarily break up psalms other than Psalm 118’s natural divisions since it is so long. Moreover they are distributed such that the psalm suits the character of the hour (St. Benedict didn’t pay as much heed to that, instead often preferring to keep them together in numerical order, though some were set aside as specific for Lauds, Vespers and Compline).
 
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