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Augustine3

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I have a question about the number of children parents decide to have. I know the church teaches parents should be generous in being fruitful with their offspring; my wife just gave birth to our second child. Emotionally speaking I don’t think personally I’m equipped to have a third child because of the following reasons which may seem selfish:
  • I easily get angry when our children do not settle, my wife had to warn me several times that my behaviour is unacceptable.
  • If we had a third child the reason would be 90% the church commands us to and 10% I desire it.
  • My wife works part time so we have to drop off our kids with their grandparents.
  • I feel bad if we had a third child the grandparents would have to take care of him/her too. My wife and I both decided that the day care centre is not an option.
  • I’m sick and tired of having no time for myself. I can’t even say the rosary without being disturbed, I have to break up the decades throughout the day while working on something else or travelling. I prefer to give our lady my full attention.
These may sound like selfish reasons (except the grandparents) but that’s just how I feel. Often I’ve become very impatient. Are these enough reasons to stop having children? If not am I committing a sin by refraining?
 
I’m not a parent or a priest, but these certainly sound like valid reasons to put off having children for a while – using NFP, not contraceptives – and with mutual agreement with your wife.

There’s no need to decide to stop having children (as you said it in your post) right now. You can simply decide to postpone children for another 6-12 months, and reassess your situation later. I’ll pray for you this evening.
 
Your wife’s job alone is a very valid reason. It sounds like you two have your hands full and are just managing to take care of two. Keeping in mind that the grandparents have to babysit is a very valid reason to wait/not have more.
 
Why would you think that wanting more time to pray would be selfish? Also, the Church doesn’t teach that married couples even have to have any children–just that they are open to having them (and NFP, which I assume you’re using is perfectly acceptable of course.)
 
If you just gave birth to number 2, now is not the time to be too worried about future children. Focus on the two you have and worry about the future later. Your attitudes may change over time…mine did…or they may not.

I do think you need to consider dealing more effectively with impatience. I don’t think one can simply be resigned to having an impatient temperament…I’m not saying you do, but it did read that way a little. If patience is a struggle, then struggle with it and try to find coping machanisms. Don’t accept that it is an irreversible part of your personality. Patience is a virtue, and like all virtues can be fostered and practised and grown. Children certainly test the limits of our patience, but herein we can grow our practice.
 
I have a question about the number of children parents decide to have. I know the church teaches parents should be generous in being fruitful with their offspring; my wife just gave birth to our second child. Emotionally speaking I don’t think personally I’m equipped to have a third child because of the following reasons which may seem selfish:
  • I easily get angry when our children do not settle, my wife had to warn me several times that my behaviour is unacceptable.
  • If we had a third child the reason would be 90% the church commands us to and 10% I desire it.
  • My wife works part time so we have to drop off our kids with their grandparents.
  • I feel bad if we had a third child the grandparents would have to take care of him/her too. My wife and I both decided that the day care centre is not an option.
  • I’m sick and tired of having no time for myself. I can’t even say the rosary without being disturbed, I have to break up the decades throughout the day while working on something else or travelling. I prefer to give our lady my full attention.
These may sound like selfish reasons (except the grandparents) but that’s just how I feel. Often I’ve become very impatient. Are these enough reasons to stop having children? If not am I committing a sin by refraining?
I keep coming back to your post. I think you need prayer. Being so impatient and stressed out having two children, to the point where your wife has to warn you that your behavior is unacceptable? You might need some counseling. A parent is supposed to put his or her own needs aside in favor of the children, and it seems that from your post, you are unwilling or unable to do this for your own children. Of course you are not going to have the same amount of time to yourself, you are a FATHER OF TWO! That’s how it goes. In 18 years or so, depending on how many more kids you have, you and your wife will get your own time back. In the meantime, it’s

TIME
TO
MAN
UP!
 
I’m sorry. My reply is going to sound harsh, and I promise I am not posting it out of anger or meanness but truly out of a desire to wake you up. The fact that you are thinking about this at all (rather than just giving in to popular culture’s ideas about kids) shows you to be a thoughtful man who wants to do the right thing. But yes, to me, since you asked, your post does sound quite selfish.

It is quite possible that your post is not very representative of what you feel and what motivates you–I get that, but I can only respond based on what you have said here. If you didn’t mean it the way it sounded, I can’t really be expected to know that. 🙂

Maybe this is just a temporary thing. The first few months with a new baby can be VERY hard and very tiring, and we might say things we mean very sincerely at the time, but don’t actually mean in the long run. One danger of posting this (if this is the case) is that later, when the pressure of a newborn is off a bit, you may convince yourself that you still feel that way when you don’t, just to be consistent. So keep the possibility in mind as the months go by.
  • If we had a third child the reason would be 90% the church commands us to and 10% I desire it.
Well, this one does make you sound a little selfish. I notice there is no percentage in there and in fact no mention anywhere in your post of what your wife wants or feels. It should be a rather large factor. Also, it’s not a reason. It’s just a statement of the original position which is that you don’t want more children.

As for the grandparents, that reason only counts if the grandparents would mind. If you haven’t asked them about it, then you don’t really know whether it would be a burden to them or not. Even that reason, as you state it, is all about you. YOU feel bad about the burden on the grandprents.

So really your list boils down to three reasons
  • You can’t control your behavior when the children won’t settle quickly.
  • The grandparents may or may not feel it is an additional burden to spend part of the day watching three children instead of two.
  • You want more free time.
To me, it sounds like you have to make a big effort here. You say that you’re “not personally equipped” for more than two children. Well, as long as you see each child as primarily a burden that causes you anger when they don’t settle, puts you in (non-nonetary) debt to the child’s grandparents, and steals away your free time, I’m not sure you’re 100% ready even for the two you have. Since these children already exist, I think you need to get a spiritual director or someone to guide you in changing your outlook. Yes, children require sacrifice. They always have and they always will. But if you view you children as primarily a burden which another child would increase, as they grow up, they will know. They really will. You must change your outlook for the sake of the two children you already have. That fractured rosary you are praying, pray it for the intention of seeing your children primarily as a blessing. Pray it for the intention of being able to give your time to your kids gladly and joyfully. And of course pray it for an increase in patience.

I can’t answer the actual question about whether it is wrong to refrain from having further children. I can certainly state with others on this thread that it would be wrong to make that decision now. But for the sake of the two children you have (not to mention your wife), you really have to do something every day to try to change your outlook. Resist impatience. When you have succumbed to it, spend extra time with the kids and apologize to your wife. Pray for help, especially in those special minutes after receiving the Eucharist. Go to confession often (at least once a month if you can) and confess your impatience. Use all of the grace that the Lord wants to give you to help you.

Please forgive me if I have misinterpreted your meaning from your words. I really do want to help.

God bless you and assist you in making the right decisions, which He knows what they are and I don’t.

–Jen
 
  • I’m sick and tired of having no time for myself. I can’t even say the rosary without being disturbed, I have to break up the decades throughout the day while working on something else or traveling. I prefer to give our lady my full attention.
Commendable, but your state in life (married, father) requires your attention in many ways. I think Mary understands. 🙂
 
Augustine3;9697950:
  • I’m sick and tired of having no time for myself. I can’t even say the rosary without being disturbed, I have to break up the decades throughout the day while working on something else or travelling. I prefer to give our lady my full attention.
Commendable, but your state in life (married, father) requires your attention in many ways. I think Mary understands. 🙂
Yes, while you would prefer to give our lady your full attention, she may prefer that you didn’t! 😉
 
I kept thinking about this thread as well.

You need to figure out how much of your reasoning is genuine concern, and how much of it is making excuses to come to the conclusion you want to come to.

It sounds a lot like conversations my husband and I have-- except he doesn’t want extra time to pray the rosary; he begrudges the kids for cutting into his zombie-shooting video games. 😉

I agree, focus on #1 and #2. Strive to do your best for them. Recognize your shortcomings, such as impatience, and strive to overcome them, rather than focusing on your children as obstacles in your prayer life, financial life, social life, or wherever else their presence causes you to modify your habits.
 
Well, as long as you see each child as primarily a burden that causes you anger when they don’t settle, puts you in (non-nonetary) debt to the child’s grandparents, and steals away your free time, I’m not sure you’re 100% ready even for the two you have. Since these children already exist, I think you need to get a spiritual director or someone to guide you in changing your outlook. Yes, children require sacrifice. They always have and they always will. But if you view you children as primarily a burden which another child would increase, as they grow up, they will know. They really will. You must change your outlook for the sake of the two children you already have. **That fractured rosary you are praying, pray it for the intention of seeing your children primarily as a blessing. Pray it for the intention of being able to give your time to your kids gladly and joyfully. And of course pray it for an increase in patience.
**
This x 2.
 
Thanks brothers and sisters for your comments and advice, even though some seemed to be a little negative I realized I needed to be told. You guys have helped me more than you may think. Something very simple which I’m sure was the work of the Holy Spirit happen last night that has triggered a new beginning. I was with my 6 week old son John Paul carrying him in my arms trying to settle him gently. While settling him I was thinking about your posts and the changes I should make. I stared into John Paul’s eyes with a loving gaze and smiling. I began to feel what I wonderful gift he was from God, John Paul stared and smiled back at me and peacefully dozed off to sleep. That instantly melted my heart!!

From that moment I made the decision, no more “me, me, me” going forward it’s going to be “family, family, family”. I’ve reverted back to reading my book “Catholic for a Reason – Scripture and the Mystery of Marriage and Family Life”.

I have some questions:
  • ChibiViolet mentioned you don’t have to have any children, you just need to be open to life by using NFP. I’m not sure if this is true; I thought I read somewhere couples need to have a serious reason for putting off having kids?
  • My in-laws are happy to take care of our kids while my wife works. The thing is they are too nice, they never say no when a favour is needed even if they don’t feel like it or sometimes to an extant cause them to use that extra physical energy which that don’t have. That’s why I hesitate to have a third child, I sometimes think it’s not their responsibility so why should I burden them?
God bless,
 
Thanks brothers and sisters for your comments and advice, even though some seemed to be a little negative I realized I needed to be told. You guys have helped me more than you may think. Something very simple which I’m sure was the work of the Holy Spirit happen last night that has triggered a new beginning. I was with my 6 week old son John Paul carrying him in my arms trying to settle him gently. While settling him I was thinking about your posts and the changes I should make. I stared into John Paul’s eyes with a loving gaze and smiling. I began to feel what I wonderful gift he was from God, John Paul stared and smiled back at me and peacefully dozed off to sleep. That instantly melted my heart!!
That’s great to hear. Being a parent is hard…I have four children. But every now and then there’s a special moment that reminds you of the great gift that it is.

(And then it’s quickly back to yelling and fighting and breaking things etc…)
I have some questions:
  • ChibiViolet mentioned you don’t have to have any children, you just need to be open to life by using NFP. I’m not sure if this is true; I thought I read somewhere couples need to have a serious reason for putting off having kids?
Yes, you need to have a serious reason. But there are no clear guidelines on what a serious reason is, and it’s really a matter between you and your wife, and God via prayer.
 
I have a question about the number of children parents decide to have. I know the church teaches parents should be generous in being fruitful with their offspring; my wife just gave birth to our second child. **Emotionally speaking **I don’t think personally I’m equipped to have a third child because of the following reasons which may seem selfish:
  • I easily get angry when our children do not settle, my wife had to warn me several times that my behaviour is unacceptable.
  • If we had a third child the reason would be 90% the church commands us to and 10% I desire it.
  • My wife works part time so we have to drop off our kids with their grandparents.
  • I feel bad if we had a third child the grandparents would have to take care of him/her too. My wife and I both decided that the day care centre is not an option.
  • I’m sick and tired of having no time for myself. I can’t even say the rosary without being disturbed, I have to break up the decades throughout the day while working on something else or travelling. I prefer to give our lady my full attention.
These may sound like selfish reasons (except the grandparents) but that’s just how I feel. Often I’ve become very impatient. Are these enough reasons to stop having children? If not am I committing a sin by refraining?
I know you’re a guy, but you are describing the symptoms of postpartum depression! And guess what–men get it too. Read this. Sound familiar?

I urge you to get help–whether that means talking to your doctor about antidepressants or continuing to be spiritually proactive, or both! You’ve already taken the first step by reaching out to us.
 
Something very simple which I’m sure was the work of the Holy Spirit happen last night that has triggered a new beginning. I was with my 6 week old son John Paul carrying him in my arms trying to settle him gently. While settling him I was thinking about your posts and the changes I should make. I stared into John Paul’s eyes with a loving gaze and smiling. I began to feel what I wonderful gift he was from God, John Paul stared and smiled back at me and peacefully dozed off to sleep. That instantly melted my heart!!
God bless you greatly in you new resolve. Thank you very much for sharing this story–it is beautiful!

Only one last small piece of advice–don’t be discouraged if you relapse. It will probably happen, but it doesn’t make your resolve any less noble, or your ultimate success less assured. (Plus, I have found in my own struggles against my own besetting sins, it is a wonderful help in instilling humility. 😃 )

–Jen
 
:grouphug:
That was really sweet. Good luck on your path. It’s definitely a bumpy ride, but I hope your future has lots more heartwarming moments like the one you described. Best wishes to you and your family!
 
Thanks brothers and sisters for your comments and advice, even though some seemed to be a little negative I realized I needed to be told. You guys have helped me more than you may think. Something very simple which I’m sure was the work of the Holy Spirit happen last night that has triggered a new beginning. **I was with my 6 week old son John Paul carrying him in my arms trying to settle him gently. While settling him I was thinking about your posts and the changes I should make. I stared into John Paul’s eyes with a loving gaze and smiling. I began to feel what I wonderful gift he was from God, John Paul stared and smiled back at me and peacefully dozed off to sleep. That instantly melted my heart!!
**
From that moment I made the decision, no more “me, me, me” going forward it’s going to be “family, family, family”. I’ve reverted back to reading my book “Catholic for a Reason – Scripture and the Mystery of Marriage and Family Life”.

I have some questions:
  • ChibiViolet mentioned you don’t have to have any children, you just need to be open to life by using NFP. I’m not sure if this is true; I thought I read somewhere couples need to have a serious reason for putting off having kids?
  • My in-laws are happy to take care of our kids while my wife works. The thing is they are too nice, they never say no when a favour is needed even if they don’t feel like it or sometimes to an extant cause them to use that extra physical energy which that don’t have. That’s why I hesitate to have a third child, I sometimes think it’s not their responsibility so why should I burden them?
God bless,
Having a new baby is tough, but you met your new little son in a real way in that moment. You are his dad, and he is going to need you his WHOLE LIFE. What an awesome responsibility God gives us when he allows us to raise His children! Treasure those moments, they are gone before you know it. Trust me, I’m mom of a 21 year old and an 18 year old (sons) and it seems that they were just little mites yesterday. I’d go back and do it all over again in a minute, but I’m kinda old to start all over…ah the smell of a new baby! Your in-laws are enjoying your children in the same way!

:grouphug:

Take care of yourself, your wife and those babies! Not in that order!

❤️
 
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