Oh I am feeling so squeezed!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Usbek_de_Perse
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
wmscott said:
My advise, as humble as it may be, is to Pray, Pray and Pray some more. let the Holy Spirit lead to where He wants you. If it is the CC, Anglican, Lutheran, or wherever. Just trust in God to lead you where you need to be. I am sure it will come to you at the right time. Peace.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Quiet your heart, put aside your own preferences, become willing to choose the one you hate the most, or love the most, or didn’t think of before, without prejudice, and let God speak to you in His own voice. 🙂
 
You will find queers everywhere (even in the Republican party). The Missouri Synod has no priests at all, women or men. Und ich kann nicht sehr gut Deutsch sprachen.
Mikeoffaith said:
I have 4 words for you. Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. You won’t find any of those queers there and none of those funny women priests either.
Click to expand...
 
Leave it to you to quote our fellow human, all too human, Giullaumus Clintonus. The man loves his Southern Baptist roots. Hillary is Methodist (Anglican without the fun, or the dry sherry).
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Feeling caught between Anglicanism and Catholicism, familiar territory for yours truly! I truly, as Bill Clinton might say, “feel your pain!!” God bless you in your journey, may He bless both of us! This road isn’t easy…
Click to expand...
 
I actually put “Billonius Clintonae” as one of the choices on one of my Rome tests. My kids cracked up. I had Jimmius Carterus on another one and they busted up laughing. I try to throw something knee-slapping into my tests just to keep 'em awake! :o:p
Usbek_de_Perse said:
Leave it to you to quote our fellow human, all too human, Giullaumus Clintonus. The man loves his Southern Baptist roots. Hillary is Methodist (Anglican without the fun, or the dry sherry).
Click to expand...
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I actually put “Billonius Clintonae” as one of the choices on one of my Rome tests. My kids cracked up. I had Jimmius Carterus on another one and they busted up laughing. I try to throw something knee-slapping into my tests just to keep 'em awake! :o:p
Click to expand...
Dude you’re a genius! That is hilarious!
 
Actually, our current president’s first name would be the Latin “Benedictus”. Baruch Spinoza often went by the Latin translation of his Hebrew name. So, Benedictus Obamae might work, if you construe his name as being “Blessed of the Obamas”. “Husayn” is a tad tricky, as it is the diminutive of “Hasan”, Hasan and Husayn being the sons of Ali ibn abi Talib and Fatima the daughter of Muhammad and apparently the nickname of an apparition of the BVM.

What about Bilius Clintoni? Elvis Novis? … Pater Chelseae?

(I just edited out one that would likely get me in trouble, dealing with someone with the same name as Mater Sancti Augustini.)
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I actually put “Billonius Clintonae” as one of the choices on one of my Rome tests. My kids cracked up. I had Jimmius Carterus on another one and they busted up laughing. I try to throw something knee-slapping into my tests just to keep 'em awake! :o:p
Click to expand...
 
Usbek_de_Perse said:
I am an Episcopalian who is becoming increasingly conservative in my reading of scripture, and as I posted some months ago, I just don’t see any way that “gay marriage” can be justified in scripture or tradition.

OK. The Episcopal Church is getting increasingly liberal, having thrown off any caution regarding consecration of bishops in same-sex relationships.

Now, the alternative is several small groups of conservative Anglicans who seem to all disagree with each other regarding this or that doctrinal issue. I don’t see joining a small dissident group. My principle is “less schism is better than more schism” and probably “no schism is better than any schism”.

So, we now have the prospect of Roman Catholic personal ordinariates for Anglican Use Catholics. This is very attractive, but I don’t want to simply become Roman Catholic because I have nowhere else to go. And at this point, frankly, the Roman church has not been doing its best to appear like the exclusive church Jesus founded.

So, here am I, typing these words, squeezed without a place to go. Argh!
Click to expand...
If you wait another 6000 years, the Catholic Church will still be standing and fighting to protect the Sanctity of Marriage, the Dignity of Life, the Apostolic Tradition, the Real Presence, the same things we have been protecting over 2000 years. I know you don’t have that long, but recognized that as Jesus tells Peter when He built His Church, “the gates of hell will not prevail against it”. The union of Anglican ecclesiastical communities are being broken up and divided. A house divided cannot stand. Eventually all the communities that are not built by Christ will come and go. There will always be the Catholic Church. Our 2000 years and worldwide representation as well as our ecclesiology that protects Sacred Tradition will always stand as a beacon through time. That is a very strong indication that the Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by Christ.
 
Obviously, I’m biased. But my take on dealing with disappointment in Church leadership is to always remember the difference between infallible and impeccable. When we say the catholic church teaches infallibly, we mean what is officially promulgated as teaching, not the behavior of the leaders.

Shoot, the bible itself shows this quite clearly. Peter denying Jesus, conforming to Jewish expectations on diet out of cowardice, Judas selling Jesus out, Paul needing to be silenced early on for a time before being a successful preacher. Nobody ever claimed that the leadership of the catholic church enjoys divine protection in their behavior. That would be tragically laughable from the get-go. But God manages to use these flawed guys to do amazing things time and time again over the course of 20 centuries. Be one! 👍
 
Mikeoffaith said:
I have 4 words for you. Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. You won’t find any of those queers there and none of those funny women priests either.
Click to expand...
Or he could try the Wisconsin Synod. He won’t find a blind eye turned to that sinful Onanism practiced by most Protestants today.
 
I thought you were Catholic - no buts.😉
manualman said:
Obviously, I’m biased. But my take on dealing with disappointment in Church leadership is to always remember the difference between infallible and impeccable. When we say the catholic church teaches infallibly, we mean what is officially promulgated as teaching, not the behavior of the leaders.

Shoot, the bible itself shows this quite clearly. Peter denying Jesus, conforming to Jewish expectations on diet out of cowardice, Judas selling Jesus out, Paul needing to be silenced early on for a time before being a successful preacher. Nobody ever claimed that the leadership of the catholic church enjoys divine protection in their behavior. That would be tragically laughable from the get-go. But God manages to use these flawed guys to do amazing things time and time again over the course of 20 centuries. Be one! 👍
Click to expand...
 
Well let’s just hope that Kobium Bryantus, Ronian Artestus and Lamariae Odumae can take care of the evil dictators Kevinum Garnettius, Paulus Piercem, and Ray Allanus in the great circus maximus of NBA Celticum vs. Lakerae
Usbek_de_Perse said:
Actually, our current president’s first name would be the Latin “Benedictus”. Baruch Spinoza often went by the Latin translation of his Hebrew name. So, Benedictus Obamae might work, if you construe his name as being “Blessed of the Obamas”. “Husayn” is a tad tricky, as it is the diminutive of “Hasan”, Hasan and Husayn being the sons of Ali ibn abi Talib and Fatima the daughter of Muhammad and apparently the nickname of an apparition of the BVM.

What about Bilius Clintoni? Elvis Novis? … Pater Chelseae?

(I just edited out one that would likely get me in trouble, dealing with someone with the same name as Mater Sancti Augustini.)
Click to expand...
 
To the OP, Usbek, what is your view on justification? Infusion or Imputation? Do you tend toward the Catholic or Protestant view? To me, this is the key, the spark that lights the rest. Personally, I feel “squeezed” in between Protestantism and Catholicism by this issue. I’m studying it in depth, really looking at it hard. Many people come to Catholicism because of unity or papacy or frustration with the moral decay in their own denominations. I feel that if I can’t reconcile the justification issue, I cannot be Catholic again just because they’re strict morally? Does that make sense?

Like the HORRIBLE X-Files movie of the same name–I want to believe. I truly do. My wife and I are going to the Philippines this weekend for almost a month, our three kids also. We’ll only have Catholic churches to go to really so I went ahead and went to confession today here in town in preparation for it. I’m struggling and want to buy the product of Catholicism. My heart and emotions draw me more to Catholicism but my intellect is pulling me in a different direction. I understand your struggle even if it’s not identical to my own. If you’d ever like to IM about it all, you have a sympathetic ear in me. God bless, friend.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
To the OP, Usbek, what is your view on justification? Infusion or Imputation? Do you tend toward the Catholic or Protestant view? To me, this is the key, the spark that lights the rest. Personally, I feel “squeezed” in between Protestantism and Catholicism by this issue. I’m studying it in depth, really looking at it hard. Many people come to Catholicism because of unity or papacy or frustration with the moral decay in their own denominations. I feel that if I can’t reconcile the justification issue, I cannot be Catholic again just because they’re strict morally? Does that make sense?

Like the HORRIBLE X-Files movie of the same name–I want to believe. I truly do. My wife and I are going to the Philippines this weekend for almost a month, our three kids also. We’ll only have Catholic churches to go to really so I went ahead and went to confession today here in town in preparation for it. I’m struggling and want to buy the product of Catholicism. My heart and emotions draw me more to Catholicism but my intellect is pulling me in a different direction. I understand your struggle even if it’s not identical to my own. If you’d ever like to IM about it all, you have a sympathetic ear in me. God bless, friend.
Click to expand...
Don’t give up on our Coffee Hour. You know that we put things in the coffee to make you more vulnerable to Anglo-Catholicism, don’t you? 😃 Skip the snacks and you see through our whole facade!
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
To the OP, Usbek, what is your view on justification? Infusion or Imputation? Do you tend toward the Catholic or Protestant view? To me, this is the key, the spark that lights the rest. Personally, I feel “squeezed” in between Protestantism and Catholicism by this issue. I’m studying it in depth, really looking at it hard. Many people come to Catholicism because of unity or papacy or frustration with the moral decay in their own denominations. I feel that if I can’t reconcile the justification issue, I cannot be Catholic again just because they’re strict morally? Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Are you familiar with N. T. Wright’s work on this subject? His book Justification argues essentially that the traditional Protestant view of imputation is based on a misreading of Paul. Wright wants to rescue evangelical Protestant soteriology more than other “New Perspective” folks, which to my mind makes his criticisms of that soteriology’s exegetical basis all the more effective.

Edwin
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
To the OP, Usbek, what is your view on justification? Infusion or Imputation? Do you tend toward the Catholic or Protestant view? To me, this is the key, the spark that lights the rest. Personally, I feel “squeezed” in between Protestantism and Catholicism by this issue. I’m studying it in depth, really looking at it hard. Many people come to Catholicism because of unity or papacy or frustration with the moral decay in their own denominations. I feel that if I can’t reconcile the justification issue, I cannot be Catholic again just because they’re strict morally? Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Not to moi. I feel like I would have to take a theology class to understand whatever it is that’s troubling you.

Utterly gobsmacked by this news.
 
Usbek_de_Perse said:
Actually, I am fairly sure I know far more about RC theology and teachings than the average Catholic in the pews. I am catholic in the sense that I take much of my faith and practice from high Anglican and RC sources. I read the RC breviary nearly every day for at least one office.

I just don’t want to be pushed into the RCC because it is the only option in terms of Anglican “style” churches. If I come in, I want it to be because I believe in its claims. I have a hard time with a church that can’t come to grips with its own probelms. The sex scandals are not the problem, it is the Church’s determined efforts to blow every chance at setting the matter straight.

I want to believe the RCC is the authentically chartered church that Christ founded. I’m just not seeing it that way right now.
Click to expand...
this is what really eats at me. we are sooooo close! what is keeping the Anglican/Episcopalian communion, and the Catholic Church from re-uniting. at least in some way. when i talk to people from your communion, i feel im talking to a fellow Catholic. its really hard to see the differences in some respects. i will pray for you to get clear direction which ever way you are supposed to go. Grace and Peace to you. 🙂
 
Are Catholics and Anglicans that close? Justification through imputation vs. infusion is a key difference IMO. The Calvinist elements with Anglicanism, the views on the Eucharist, the views on the papacy, the views on purgatory and indulgences, the view of Scripture, the lack of a pantheon of saints for each occasion, the views on confession/penance, papal claims, I think Anglicanism is farther away from Catholicism than you think…
benidict said:
this is what really eats at me. we are sooooo close! what is keeping the Anglican/Episcopalian communion, and the Catholic Church from re-uniting. at least in some way. when i talk to people from your communion, i feel im talking to a fellow Catholic. its really hard to see the differences in some respects. i will pray for you to get clear direction which ever way you are supposed to go. Grace and Peace to you. 🙂
Click to expand...
 
I am just beginning to study Orthodoxy and there are a number of points I don’t get. I am backing away from the legalistic Catholic attitude I see in some places and learning to relate all over again through Christ’s humanity as well.

But then I can see there are always people with questions. The sacraments still work even if their ministers aren’t.

Yet the Church is always there to answer questions, to teach. Besides administrating the Word and Sacraments, the Church is teaching and nurturing. So we need the legal defining of issues and instructed response to things as they come up in daily life. We need guidance or the Church is not doing its job.

You also have to get hold of factual church documents about scandals. As I read more and more, the New York Times was falling in objective reporting. And there are some ethnic cultures that have labelled the American pre Vatican II Church for their own issues. You can’t paint the Church with the behaviors of a some in a particular Catholic ethnic group.

During Holy Week, when the reporting was the worst, the American Church saw the greatest attendance and numbers of conversions. In Baltimore, Maryland, the primary diocese ( I live in the second one) saw 1,000 converts.

So as the corrupt fall by the wayside, Christ brings in new vines that can lead to new priestly vocations. And seminarians across the country were being fed by all of the publicity. They are determined to become good priests and to be good example to counter act past wrongs. The Church is constantly self-reforming.

I went to a retreat after soaking in the scandals after being in clients’ homes with their TV’s on full blast during Holy Week. The greatest blessing I got from the retreat that even though we have alot of very bad people coming out all over the world, one person – just one person living the life of Jesus by Word and/or Sacrament, can block the forces of bad and restore the world he lives in, and start increasing the spirit of goodness around him.

Our faith in the Catholic Church should be focused on Jesus Christ and centered in the Holy Spirit guiding us. The shepherd knows His sheep and the sheep know Him…and in recent years, this shepherd can also be recognized in the Holy Father.

So far, what I have seen in Orthodoxy is making me be thankful I am Catholic. We are not better than other people. But as a universal believer, we are called to charity and to bring the good news of Jesus Christ to others, and to forgive others and their past wrongs, and to respect the Jewish people for their Sacred Word of God and for giving us the Messiah.

I am thankful for being Catholic and having the Church and not just having the Bible. If you don’t like what is going on in your parish, correct it. If you can’t, then turn deeper to God and living out the gospel with a few friends and be a servant. Or you can go to another parish.

Perfection exists only in heaven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top