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Brendan
Guest
I was in the Diaconal program and we had to give a reflection as well. But it is done outside of Mass and given to the seminarians and other diaconal students. And we got to listen to theirs and give critiques.
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japhy
Guest
Geez. Was the celebrant’s chair not good enough for him?
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rkrispies
Guest
I know deacon-candidates need practice giving homilies and get feedback. It’s just sad that my parish is pretty much the only traditional-ish parish in the entire city and I have to put up with that kind of stuff. Not very often, but often enough.
Chris
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weepixie71
Guest
well then… its right there in bold print… liturgical abuse was witnessed.
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OhMalley
Guest
We have a student from the local Newman Center that comes to “preach” once a year. Thankfully it’s in the bulletin the week before and I quietly go elsewhere. The speakers are exceptional but they aren’t qualified to preach during the Mass per the Church.
We had a nun speak one time. She offended just about everyone. I very quietly got up and left after 4-5 minutes. Apparently it went downhill quick after I left…
We had a nun speak one time. She offended just about everyone. I very quietly got up and left after 4-5 minutes. Apparently it went downhill quick after I left…
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Provigil
Guest
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Okay, it happened again last night. It would seem that it’s now becoming more frequent, since it was barely one month ago that it happened. At least this time the person was a tad more qualified, being herself a theology prof. At least the talk wasn’t super-boring & insufferable, the way the other two were. She kept to a theme and it moved at a clip, and since she’s a prof (unlike the other two), she does have some experience presenting & speaking.
However, there’s something so missing when Mass proceeds artificially like that, disjointedly. I can really see why it’s important for the presider to also preach. It’s not just a matter of preparedness or credentials; it’s also a matter of a continuous line from the introductory prayers to the proclamation of the Word to the application of that Word from the same person who we anticipate will carry out the consecration of the Word made flesh. There’s value, it seems to me, in a single celebrant (or a primary celebrant when Mass is concelebrated).
So apparently this is going to be a regular thing now at this parish – or at least that’s how it seemed to be announced by one of the priests. (‘we should have more of this’ – that kind of thing).
Perhaps I’m just being intolerant, but it seems to me that the priest as a unifying thread is there to remind us of the single person of Christ as the sum and symbol of our unity.
However, there’s something so missing when Mass proceeds artificially like that, disjointedly. I can really see why it’s important for the presider to also preach. It’s not just a matter of preparedness or credentials; it’s also a matter of a continuous line from the introductory prayers to the proclamation of the Word to the application of that Word from the same person who we anticipate will carry out the consecration of the Word made flesh. There’s value, it seems to me, in a single celebrant (or a primary celebrant when Mass is concelebrated).
So apparently this is going to be a regular thing now at this parish – or at least that’s how it seemed to be announced by one of the priests. (‘we should have more of this’ – that kind of thing).
Perhaps I’m just being intolerant, but it seems to me that the priest as a unifying thread is there to remind us of the single person of Christ as the sum and symbol of our unity.
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paperwight
Guest
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paperwight
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Crumpy
Guest
Well, there’s a point to be made about who is supposed to deliver a homily and who isn’t.
Then, the next point to be made is how we take the priestly homily for granted. It is really notable when a lesser trained person rises to speak.
third, it is sad that non-ordained Catholics can’t give a homily, even if they have the opportunity to do so. There’s an art to preaching and the priests make it look so easy.
fourth, maybe it exists someplace or should exist if it doesn’t, but it seems there should be an archive of homilies for every occasion. That’s the most tragic thing about homilies – we expect them to be so good but when they’re over, they’re over. Even EWTN doesn’t keep an archive of all those televised Masses. Protestants seem to be way ahead of Catholics on having copies of sermons, even of their own pastor.
Fifth, take that back, on the EWTN website and the Vatican website, there are copies of the homilies that the Popes have delivered.
Sixth, OK, I have seen isolated cases of archives of selected homilies. I have a short collection of some homilies by St. Thomas Aquinas.
Seventh, what so usually amazes me, for better and for worse, is how homilies tend to be so politically correct. They seem to ignore so many relevant contemporary problems, and just focus on a one or more technical points from scripture. I so seldom hear homilies about fatherhood, motherhood, families, personal Catholic morality. Perhaps from hearing so many confessions, the priests just “know” what they don’t have to talk about.
eighth, the one homily that was delivered by a professed religious sister was long and boring. It was Mission Sunday and so she was invited to speak or just decided to speak about her 30 years as a mission sister. Truthfully, it wasn’t the time or the place, as I see it, to go that deeply into such a subject, no matter how important her work was. To make matters worse, the parish didn’t take up the Mission Sunday collection - duh.
ninth (came back to add this): Homilies should be fifteen minutes. Two bishops ago, the bishop said homilies should be four minutes in length. Seems too short for me, I haven’t even focused my attention or figured out what the priest is talking about in that time. I also don’t like homilies that end with the punchline – I don’t usually even see it coming, and I usually miss it altogether.
Then, the next point to be made is how we take the priestly homily for granted. It is really notable when a lesser trained person rises to speak.
third, it is sad that non-ordained Catholics can’t give a homily, even if they have the opportunity to do so. There’s an art to preaching and the priests make it look so easy.
fourth, maybe it exists someplace or should exist if it doesn’t, but it seems there should be an archive of homilies for every occasion. That’s the most tragic thing about homilies – we expect them to be so good but when they’re over, they’re over. Even EWTN doesn’t keep an archive of all those televised Masses. Protestants seem to be way ahead of Catholics on having copies of sermons, even of their own pastor.
Fifth, take that back, on the EWTN website and the Vatican website, there are copies of the homilies that the Popes have delivered.
Sixth, OK, I have seen isolated cases of archives of selected homilies. I have a short collection of some homilies by St. Thomas Aquinas.
Seventh, what so usually amazes me, for better and for worse, is how homilies tend to be so politically correct. They seem to ignore so many relevant contemporary problems, and just focus on a one or more technical points from scripture. I so seldom hear homilies about fatherhood, motherhood, families, personal Catholic morality. Perhaps from hearing so many confessions, the priests just “know” what they don’t have to talk about.
eighth, the one homily that was delivered by a professed religious sister was long and boring. It was Mission Sunday and so she was invited to speak or just decided to speak about her 30 years as a mission sister. Truthfully, it wasn’t the time or the place, as I see it, to go that deeply into such a subject, no matter how important her work was. To make matters worse, the parish didn’t take up the Mission Sunday collection - duh.
ninth (came back to add this): Homilies should be fifteen minutes. Two bishops ago, the bishop said homilies should be four minutes in length. Seems too short for me, I haven’t even focused my attention or figured out what the priest is talking about in that time. I also don’t like homilies that end with the punchline – I don’t usually even see it coming, and I usually miss it altogether.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
paperwight makes a good point, but it turns out that all the deacons’ sermons I’ve heard (they aren’t many) have been more in the line of what I would hear from the presiding priest: relevance of the scripture portions to the spirtuality of everyday life. They aren’t personal accounts or abstract intellectual papers. Even the slightly better homily of last night did not once reference the Mass readings for that day, not once. Nor did they reference anything that was happening, for example, in the life of the parish. (That would also be a unifying point.)
Crumpy, I’m quite sure that priests do have archives of various sermons on readings, or can access these. I know because I used to work in a parish.
Yes, there’s an art to preaching, so I don’t necessarily agree that it’s “sad” that non-ordained persons cannot do so, as you put it. They’re not trained. I do not object to their being trained, should the Church change procedure & decide to start doing that. But they should not practice during Mass.
I don’t find homilies to be “politically correct.” Good homilies provoke, but don’t deliberately alienate, as the Mass is not a political moment; it’s a spiritual moment intended to encourage reflection, openness, receptivity. Lots of priests actually do talk about what they’ve heard in confession, if that applies to their homilies – and if often does.
Crumpy, I’m quite sure that priests do have archives of various sermons on readings, or can access these. I know because I used to work in a parish.
Yes, there’s an art to preaching, so I don’t necessarily agree that it’s “sad” that non-ordained persons cannot do so, as you put it. They’re not trained. I do not object to their being trained, should the Church change procedure & decide to start doing that. But they should not practice during Mass.
I don’t find homilies to be “politically correct.” Good homilies provoke, but don’t deliberately alienate, as the Mass is not a political moment; it’s a spiritual moment intended to encourage reflection, openness, receptivity. Lots of priests actually do talk about what they’ve heard in confession, if that applies to their homilies – and if often does.
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Sr_Sally
Guest
Elizabeth, I’m sorry to hear that this is becoming more common. I’ll be praying for a good outcome to your conversation with the pastor. It really shouldn’t be that we lay folks have to keep track of the GIRM, etc and call the priests on their rule-breaking. 
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Elizabeth502
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Hey thanks, Sr. I know that I will get nowhere with the priests on this; they are of one mind. I’ll have to take it to a Higher Authority, as the *Hebrew National *commercial used to say.
(Well, not **that **high)
(Well, not **that **high)
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Majobe
Guest
Peace be with you,
At our parish we get these guys who are still Seminarians preach everytime they are back on on school holidaysSome of them are really great speakers ,I like them. Are they also not allowed?
At our parish we get these guys who are still Seminarians preach everytime they are back on on school holidaysSome of them are really great speakers ,I like them. Are they also not allowed?
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japhy
Guest
No, seminarians may not preach a homily during the Mass. The homily is reserved to those men who have been ordained. The Mass is not the “testing ground” for homilies or homilists.
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EasterJoy
Guest
No, the priests are not of one mind on this. I know of parishes that used to allow lay homilists that have stopped the practice. At least one pastor I know (who had allowed them occasionally in the past) took some heat for publicly announcing that the practice would be stopped in his parish.Hey thanks, Sr. I know that I will get nowhere with the priests on this; they are of one mind. I’ll have to take it to a Higher Authority, as the *Hebrew National *commercial used to say.
(Well, not **that **high)
There are priests out there changing their policies (some before changing their minds!), and they deserve credit for it. If the ones who don’t comply with the rules are going to be publicly criticized, then the ones who change course should be publicly encouraged and thanked. (Not that the ones who have done it right all along aren’t praiseworthy, but the since so many in the former case show an admirable willingness to ignore their own sentiments in favor of obedience, they should be given particular encouragment.)
I also think that it should be recognized that there are a lot of priests who follow the rules, who don’t agree with the rules, but who keep their mouths shut when their opinions don’t match their bishops’. They are out there, even though they purposefully avoid notice, and we should thank the Lord for their fidelity and obedience. They are an example for all of us.
Seminarians are usually ordained to the transitional diaconate before completing their last year of seminary, if not their last two years, so they are the obvious exception.
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japhy
Guest
I wouldn’t call a transitional deacon a “seminarian” simply because of the confusion that would cause in discussions like this one.
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zab
Guest
So you answered the OP’s post correctly when you said that a seminarian may not give a homily but you didn’t cause confusion by failing to mention or inform the OP that seminarians who have completed their third year of study and have been ordained as a Transitional Deacons may give homilies?I wouldn’t call a transitional deacon a “seminarian” simply because of the confusion that would cause in discussions like this one.
Many people believe the Transitional Deacons are still seminarians because they have not yet been ordained as priests.
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zab
Guest
CORRECTION: I was referring to your reply to MajobeSo you answered the OP’s post correctly when you said that a seminarian may not give a homily but you didn’t cause confusion by failing to mention or inform the OP that seminarians who have completed their third year of study and have been ordained as a Transitional Deacons may give homilies?
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EasterJoy
Guest
Some, if not most, transitional deacons are still enrolled in seminary until shortly before they are ordained to the priesthood. They are seminarians.So you answered the OP’s post correctly when you said that a seminarian may not give a homily but you didn’t cause confusion by failing to mention or inform the OP that seminarians who have completed their third year of study and have been ordained as a Transitional Deacons may give homilies?
Another source of confusion in our diocese is that the permanent deacons don’t wear a Roman collar, as a rule, but the transitional deacons do! These poor seminarians keep having to correct the people who call them “Father” before they are ordained to the priesthood.
Not every seminarian is going beyond his place when he gives a homily, and not every man you see wearing a Roman collar can be assumed to be a priest.
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