Oh No

[AmericanRose]

My mother told me she wishes she hadn’t let me become so Catholic. She says she believes in God and Jesus, and that religion is overreated. I don’t need confession or to pray so much. But I like being able to pray a lot, and I try to go to confession as often as I can. (not often cause she won’t let me go) My sacramentals and devotion to Mary and saints is silly, and that most Christians don’t have it right, and no one knows what to truly believe. She leans toward nondenomonational, but wants to be Catholic even though she says I’m “obsessed” with it. She threatens to keep me from going to church if I dont focus more on world stuff (like school even though I have very good grades) (focusing on college and getting a high paying job, and finding what I want to do with that, and not so much prayer and God. But I ask God to help me with all this, and He hasn’t lead me astray. We’re kinda poor, and she keeps telling me, you want more money, you don’t want to live like this. But I’m happy with the way i’m living. I have a roof, clothes, food. Power and weath and fame doesn’t appeal to me. (I’ve been praying the Litany of Humility, a sung version, and I truly believe God is helping me). I want to go to Mass more often but that would be crossing the line into obsession. So what can i do? I don’t want to be kept from going to Mass and Confession. But I might be kept away. I don’t want power and fame. I want nessecities, a few little things. That’s it. But those things might be forced onto me. What can I do?

 

[bitterhope]

Praying for peace in your home.

 

[tawny]

Praying for peace in your home.

Amen.

 

[Dorothy]

I don’t know how old you are, but from what you wrote you are living with your parents and are dependent on them. That would mean you wouldn’t be able to do some things that you want to do.

Prayer is your strength! No one can stop you from praying. Perhaps the next time you go to confession you can ask the advice of the priest after briefly explaining your situation.

The time will come when you will have more freedom. Meanwhile think of your situation as a discipline…and pray for your Mom because of the way she thinks about you being obsessive.

When you pray remember that our Lord Jesus Christ was misunderstood by many.

Stay close to our Blessed Mother who was given to us as a Mother at the foot of the Cross.

May the Lord bless you and lead you on your journey to Him.

 

[pianistclare]

Well, we’re only hearing one side of it.
Are you ignoring other responsibilities? How old are you?
Are you isolating yourself?
Why does she suddenly worry about this?
Continue to pray but be patient with your mother. Don’t try to teach.
Lead by your piety and humility.
Perhaps your mother is frustrated by the lack of funds for the basics.
Try to understand her and pray for her. She loves you. Love her back.
Stay the course. You’ll be fine.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think it would be reasonable to ask your pastor for advice. You may even have a vocation to the religious life. It is unfortunately a sad fact that there are many Catholic parents who cannot cope with that. At any rate, your pastor can help you to sort out the difference between a deep and growing devotion and religious narcissism that gives you warm feelings but doesn’t really reflect a great deal of love for either God or neighbor. The former is the radical devotion that can make a saint; the latter can easily be the kind of fruitless obsession that only makes other people not want to be around you without doing a soul in the world any good. When you think you may be afflicted with either scruples or religious narcissism, it is essential to have that outside guidance, or you’ll drive yourself and everyone around you a little nutty. If you have a vocation to the religious life or even to a married life or single life that will lead you to toward sainthood, a devotion that clears the path towards works of grace (for the time being, at least) you’d also do well to have spiritual direction. Even though the reasons it is so necessary are quite different, these two situations call for more experienced (name removed by moderator)ut than you are likely to get from your parents.

 

[Dorothy]

I think it would be reasonable to ask your pastor for advice. You may even have a vocation to the religious life. It is unfortunately a sad fact that there are many Catholic parents who cannot cope with that. At any rate, your pastor can help you to sort out the difference between a deep and growing devotion and religious narcissism that gives you warm feelings but doesn’t really reflect a great deal of love for either God or neighbor. The former is the radical devotion that can make a saint; the latter can easily be the kind of fruitless obsession that only makes other people not want to be around you without doing a soul in the world any good. When you think you may be afflicted with either scruples or religious narcissism, it is essential to have that outside guidance, or you’ll drive yourself and everyone around you a little nutty. If you have a vocation to the religious life or even to a married life or single life that will lead you to toward sainthood, a devotion that clears the path towards works of grace (for the time being, at least) you’d also do well to have spiritual direction. Even though the reasons it is so necessary are quite different, these two situations call for more experienced (name removed by moderator)ut than you are likely to get from your parents.

There is much wisdom in your post.

 

[bluerose]

I think it would be reasonable to ask your pastor for advice. You may even have a vocation to the religious life. It is unfortunately a sad fact that there are many Catholic parents who cannot cope with that. At any rate, your pastor can help you to sort out the difference between a deep and growing devotion and religious narcissism that gives you warm feelings but doesn’t really reflect a great deal of love for either God or neighbor. The former is the radical devotion that can make a saint; the latter can easily be the kind of fruitless obsession that only makes other people not want to be around you without doing a soul in the world any good. When you think you may be afflicted with either scruples or religious narcissism, it is essential to have that outside guidance, or you’ll drive yourself and everyone around you a little nutty. If you have a vocation to the religious life or even to a married life or single life that will lead you to toward sainthood, a devotion that clears the path towards works of grace (for the time being, at least) you’d also do well to have spiritual direction. Even though the reasons it is so necessary are quite different, these two situations call for more experienced (name removed by moderator)ut than you are likely to get from your parents.

I believe this is the poster who had the “Romeo and Juliet” problem with a boyfriend her mother did not like, so this may not be the case.

 

[EasterJoy]

I believe this is the poster who had the “Romeo and Juliet” problem with a boyfriend her mother did not like, so this may not be the case.

Why would you think that someone who has a close male friend with whom she is considering a romantic relationship could not have a vocation to the religious life? You aren’t under the impression that none of our fine religious sisters ever even considered having a boyfriend when they were teens, let alone ever had one?

 

[bluerose]

Why would you think that someone who has a close male friend with whom she is considering a romantic relationship could not have a vocation to the religious life? You aren’t under the impression that none of our fine religious sisters ever even considered having a boyfriend when they were teens, let alone ever had one?

I have a niece and a sister-in-law who are Carmelite nuns and a brother-in-law who’s a priest and they all had romantic relationships in the past so I’m not saying that it’s an impossibility. I know very well that it’s possible to be on the verge of marriage and still receive a call to the religious life.

I am merely pointing out that less than a week ago, this same poster was asking for advice on how to get her mother to allow the relationship with the boyfriend and, therefore, I don’t think that her mother is afraid that she’s considering a religious vocation.

 

[pianistclare]

I have a niece and a sister-in-law who are Carmelite nuns and a brother-in-law who’s a priest and they all had romantic relationships in the past so I’m not saying that it’s an impossibility. I know very well that it’s possible to be on the verge of marriage and still receive a call to the religious life.

I am merely pointing out that less than a week ago, this same poster was asking for advice on how to get her mother to allow the relationship with the boyfriend and, therefore, I don’t think that her mother is afraid that she’s considering a religious vocation.

Yes. There seems to be a lot of drama going on here.
And I really don’t like it when people play the “vocations” card for every problem people post. It’s not a fallback position.
Either people are truly meant to go into the convent or seminary or they’re not.
But it’s not ever a thing for when everything else doesn’t work out.
The OP has LOADS of time to discern. She’s VERY young.
And should probably cut her mother some slack.
:twocents:

 

[EasterJoy]

I have a niece and a sister-in-law who are Carmelite nuns and a brother-in-law who’s a priest and they all had romantic relationships in the past so I’m not saying that it’s an impossibility. I know very well that it’s possible to be on the verge of marriage and still receive a call to the religious life.

I am merely pointing out that less than a week ago, this same poster was asking for advice on how to get her mother to allow the relationship with the boyfriend and, therefore, I don’t think that her mother is afraid that she’s considering a religious vocation.

Let me clarify: The OPs mother thinks the OP is “obsessed” with her religious devotions. While that is not impossible, it may only be the difference between someone who is exceptionally wary of Catholic religious devotions and someone who is temperamentally suited to a day in which such devotions are very much part of her daily routine, shared with others of a like mind in a setting where such a routine is communal and ordinary.

After all, she says, “I want to go to Mass more often but that would be crossing the line into obsession.” Unless she means going more frequently than daily, that isn’t even unusual for married people, when the opportunity presents itself. Nearly every parish I know has somewhere between a dozen and six dozen parishioners who go to Mass essentially every day. They pray the rosary every day, they read the Bible every day, they think of God somewhere between frequently and all the time, but they do not have an obsessive-compulsive disorder nor a disordered nor a scrupulous religious life. (I’ve known people with OCD that centers on religion, and that is an entirely different animal.)

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes. There seems to be a lot of drama going on here.
And I really don’t like it when people play the “vocations” card for every problem people post. It’s not a fallback position.
Either people are truly meant to go into the convent or seminary or they’re not.
But it’s not ever a thing for when everything else doesn’t work out.
The OP has LOADS of time to discern. She’s VERY young.
And should probably cut her mother some slack.
:twocents:

Where did you get “when everything else doesn’t work out”? Please go back through my umpty-ump too-many posts in my history, and tell me how often I suggest that. I don’t have a lot of “vocations cards,” thank you very much, let alone a propensity to offer religious life as a solution to life’s problems.

The OP is positively attracted to poverty, humility, and regular religious devotion. Of course it is possible she has a religious vocation. Yes, she is young, but she is exactly at the age when most of us start to seriously consider what state in life might be right for us. A lot of us knew fairly well which direction we were headed in 11th or 12th grade, including those who became religious. Even more yet were seriously considering these things at that age. So while it is too young to make a commitment in an age where perseverance has been made as hard as it has been made in our day, she is by no means too young to start considering what state in life might eventually be right for her. (I don’t know about your diocese, but the Archdiocese of Portland in Oregon allows young men younger than 18 to participate in Quo Vadis Days, if they have parental permission qvdays.org/register/archdiocese-of-portland/.)

So, is she being “dramatic”? I’d say she’s reacting as I’d expect any 17 year old might to a situation that could easily upset someone far older than she is. Re-read some of the things she said her mother said to her:

Religion is over-rated
Catholic sacramentals and devotion to the Blessed Mother are silly
Sacramental confession is unnecessary
Most Christians don’t have it right
No one knows what to truly believe
The solution to a daughter who refuses to concentrate on a money-making career instead of praying so much is to keep her from going to church

So–do you think the OP is lying, that her mother never said anything like that?

Once you’ve thought about that, let’s imagine your own mother told you that she thought it was a mistake to have allowed you to be baptized a Catholic. Imagine she debated whether to let you avail yourself of the sacraments as a way to pressure you into doing what she wanted you to do. Let us say your mother was opposed even to the concept of the evangelical counsels and instead wanted to push you to pursue a career based on how much money it would make you. Would you say that feeling upset about that would make you “dramatic”?

If the OP is naturally attracted to living the evangelical counsels, she may just be an idealistic teenager, but she may also have a vocation to the religious life. Idealization of the evangelical counsels is not uncommon among teens who are devout, but it is not a phase every teen goes through, either. Most teens hear “poverty, chastity, and obedience” and the immediate reaction is “Uh-uh! Not me!!”

On the friend, Mr. “Romeo”: Let us say you were living with your parents but not in a position to move out from home and your parents didn’t want you to have anything to do with your hand-picked best friend. Would you say that being upset about it would make you “dramatic”? They could be absolutely right, and you’d still naturally be upset. Which of us wouldn’t be? If you had a best friend of the opposite sex and he let on that he found you attractive as a woman, would that not turn your head? Of course it would. Marriages have started that way, and good ones. Silly infatuations have, too, of course, but the situation isn’t preposterous off the top.

Yes, however, I will agree on this: She is old enough to begin to consider these questions in earnest, but she is too young to make a commitment just yet. It is very exciting to consider our future state in life, there is nothing wrong with that, but we ought to be careful about infatuation. Point well-taken. People married or joined monasteries at her age in times past, but those were times in which childhood was shorter and society made perseverance to a commitment much easier.

Yes, she ought to assume that a commitment to marriage or a religious community is at least several and probably many years in her future. If she were to approach a religious community to join now or asked a priest to prepare her for marriage now, she would be told that she ought to keep discerning, but to wait to commit. No question, you are right about that. That doesn’t make her “dramatic” for posting the things she has. She is upset, but I can see why anyone in her place might be, regardless of age.

 

[AmericanRose]

Let me clarify: The OPs mother thinks the OP is “obsessed” with her religious devotions. While that is not impossible, it may only be the difference between someone who is exceptionally wary of Catholic religious devotions and someone who is temperamentally suited to a day in which such devotions are very much part of her daily routine, shared with others of a like mind in a setting where such a routine is communal and ordinary.

After all, she says, “I want to go to Mass more often but that would be crossing the line into obsession.” Unless she means going more frequently than daily, that isn’t even unusual for married people, when the opportunity presents itself. Nearly every parish I know has somewhere between a dozen and six dozen parishioners who go to Mass essentially every day. They pray the rosary every day, they read the Bible every day, they think of God somewhere between frequently and all the time, but they do not have an obsessive-compulsive disorder nor a disordered nor a scrupulous religious life. (I’ve known people with OCD that centers on religion, and that is an entirely different animal.)

For my mother, daily mass would be just way too much.

 

[AmericanRose]

Where did you get “when everything else doesn’t work out”? Please go back through my umpty-ump too-many posts in my history, and tell me how often I suggest that. I don’t have a lot of “vocations cards,” thank you very much, let alone a propensity to offer religious life as a solution to life’s problems.

The OP is positively attracted to poverty, humility, and regular religious devotion. Of course it is possible she has a religious vocation. Yes, she is young, but she is exactly at the age when most of us start to seriously consider what state in life might be right for us. A lot of us knew fairly well which direction we were headed in 11th or 12th grade, including those who became religious. Even more yet were seriously considering these things at that age. So while it is too young to make a commitment in an age where perseverance has been made as hard as it has been made in our day, she is by no means too young to start considering what state in life might eventually be right for her. (I don’t know about your diocese, but the Archdiocese of Portland in Oregon allows young men younger than 18 to participate in Quo Vadis Days, if they have parental permission qvdays.org/register/archdiocese-of-portland/.)

So, is she being “dramatic”? I’d say she’s reacting as I’d expect any 17 year old might to a situation that could easily upset someone far older than she is. Re-read some of the things she said her mother said to her:

Religion is over-rated
Catholic sacramentals and devotion to the Blessed Mother are silly
Sacramental confession is unnecessary
Most Christians don’t have it right
No one knows what to truly believe
The solution to a daughter who refuses to concentrate on a money-making career instead of praying so much is to keep her from going to church

So–do you think the OP is lying, that her mother never said anything like that?

Once you’ve thought about that, let’s imagine your own mother told you that she thought it was a mistake to have allowed you to be baptized a Catholic. Imagine she debated whether to let you avail yourself of the sacraments as a way to pressure you into doing what she wanted you to do. Let us say your mother was opposed even to the concept of the evangelical counsels and instead wanted to push you to pursue a career based on how much money it would make you. Would you say that feeling upset about that would make you “dramatic”?

If the OP is naturally attracted to living the evangelical counsels, she may just be an idealistic teenager, but she may also have a vocation to the religious life. Idealization of the evangelical counsels is not uncommon among teens who are devout, but it is not a phase every teen goes through, either. Most teens hear “poverty, chastity, and obedience” and the immediate reaction is “Uh-uh! Not me!!”

On the friend, Mr. “Romeo”: Let us say you were living with your parents but not in a position to move out from home and your parents didn’t want you to have anything to do with your hand-picked best friend. Would you say that being upset about it would make you “dramatic”? They could be absolutely right, and you’d still naturally be upset. Which of us wouldn’t be? If you had a best friend of the opposite sex and he let on that he found you attractive as a woman, would that not turn your head? Of course it would. Marriages have started that way, and good ones. Silly infatuations have, too, of course, but the situation isn’t preposterous off the top.

Yes, however, I will agree on this: She is old enough to begin to consider these questions in earnest, but she is too young to make a commitment just yet. It is very exciting to consider our future state in life, there is nothing wrong with that, but we ought to be careful about infatuation. Point well-taken. People married or joined monasteries at her age in times past, but those were times in which childhood was shorter and society made perseverance to a commitment much easier.

Yes, she ought to assume that a commitment to marriage or a religious community is at least several and probably many years in her future. If she were to approach a religious community to join now or asked a priest to prepare her for marriage now, she would be told that she ought to keep discerning, but to wait to commit. No question, you are right about that. That doesn’t make her “dramatic” for posting the things she has. She is upset, but I can see why anyone in her place might be, regardless of age.

I am upset, and yes, marriage or a religious vocation would come many years from now. I have to finish high school and probably college before I would pursue these more actively. And with my best friend, he treats me respectfully, is understanding because he is in situations similar to others of mine, and has told me he’d like to ask me to prom, and maybe, if the opportunity presents itself when we are older, to court me. but, that we both do need to have jobs and get well settled before even considering marriage.

 

[Gliggle]

Matthew 10
34 Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36 A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’…

praying for you and your mother. As others have said, trust in God, honour your mother. Remember Jesus was obedient to his mother even though she did not understand everything (think of the time she found him at the temple and made him come with her). I don’t think she has a right to forbid you from mass, even as a parent. Does a parent have the right to intentionally starve their children? I have no idea what to advise you here. But you are right, keep praying, ask for your mother in heaven’s guidance.

 

[AmericanRose]

Well. I lied to my mama, and now I’m paying the consequences. I’m grounded from my phone until after Christmas. (It’s supposed to be a punishment, but I’m actually enjoying no electronics. I have more time for other stuff, like reading and singing.) Mama has also forbidden me to speak to my best friend ever again. I’m going to miss him a lot. Maybe one day we’ll see each other again, and maybe he’ll remember me. He promised he wouldn’t, when I last spoke to him. So that’s all I can hope for. I’m not angry with mama, not at all. I deserve my punishment. But I feel empty now. It feels like God has left me. I’ve given up my daily rosary and St. Bridget prayers. Just a Hail Mary, St Michael prayer, and the guardian angel prayer every night is all I can bring myself to do. I still love Mass, but the fire that was in me is gone. Any advice?

 

[E_7]

Well. I lied to my mama, and now I’m paying the consequences. I’m grounded from my phone until after Christmas. (It’s supposed to be a punishment, but I’m actually enjoying no electronics. I have more time for other stuff, like reading and singing.) Mama has also forbidden me to speak to my best friend ever again. I’m going to miss him a lot. Maybe one day we’ll see each other again, and maybe he’ll remember me. He promised he wouldn’t, when I last spoke to him. So that’s all I can hope for. I’m not angry with mama, not at all. I deserve my punishment. But I feel empty now. It feels like God has left me. I’ve given up my daily rosary and St. Bridget prayers. Just a Hail Mary, St Michael prayer, and the guardian angel prayer every night is all I can bring myself to do. I still love Mass, but the fire that was in me is gone. Any advice?

Sometimes a movie can help. Although protestant, try God’s Not Dead, and God’s Not Dead 2.

 

[EasterJoy]

For my mother, daily mass would be just way too much.

Well, rest assured that this isn’t an obsessive level of observance. Many Catholics do it. It is not considered to be obsessive any more than reading the Bible every day, flossing every day, practicing a musical instrument, watching the news or reading a daily newspaper, or exercising every day is obsessive.

A person could even do every one of those things every day, and it would be totally normal.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well. I lied to my mama, and now I’m paying the consequences. I’m grounded from my phone until after Christmas. (It’s supposed to be a punishment, but I’m actually enjoying no electronics. I have more time for other stuff, like reading and singing.) Mama has also forbidden me to speak to my best friend ever again. I’m going to miss him a lot. Maybe one day we’ll see each other again, and maybe he’ll remember me. He promised he wouldn’t, when I last spoke to him. So that’s all I can hope for. I’m not angry with mama, not at all. I deserve my punishment. But I feel empty now. It feels like God has left me. I’ve given up my daily rosary and St. Bridget prayers. Just a Hail Mary, St Michael prayer, and the guardian angel prayer every night is all I can bring myself to do. I still love Mass, but the fire that was in me is gone. Any advice?

I heard a very good homily last Sunday. The priest was repeating a message he heard directly from Our Holy Father, Pope Francis. The message was a reflection on this passage of Holy Scripture:

Then Peter approaching asked him, “Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus answered, "I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times. Matt. 18:21-22

Pope Francis said that when we ask ourselves, “How many times do I have to repent and try to amend my life? How many times do I have to try again after I’ve failed?” What does the answer have to be? Well, if St. Peter was told we have to forgive those who offend against us seventy seven times, then it stands to reason that we have to be able to admit our fault and ask for forgiveness for our offenses seventy seven times.

Don’t give up on the mercy of God. That will always be the temptation when you feel disappointed in something you’ve done. Don’t give in to it. Be humble, repent, do your penance, amend, ask for grace, try again.