OK for married couple to use vibrators?

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I suspect that what is at stake with the use of vibrators, or “toys” in general, is the intent behind their use. All sexual acts, rightly ordered, are of complete self-giving nature. Perhaps this separates manual stimulation from stimulation by “toy” insofar as oral stimulation is still an offering of one’s own body to the other, and use of a foreign object is not. Use of the toy may cross the line into selfish pleasure by only a hair’s breadth, but it nevertheless crosses it, methinks. As in that moment, the wife ceases to give herself to her husband in the acquisition of pleasure, and the husband ceases to give himself in aiding her in her pleasure.
 
Estevao said:
I thought marriage was between a man and a woman, not between a man, and a woman and a sex-toy. People who support sex-toys are essentially saying to God “You didn’t do a good enough of a job designing this, so we have to improve on it!”.
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So does that count for medical intervention? Lubrication? Bedtime wear? Candlelight?
Are you married?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
So does that count for medical intervention? Lubrication? Bedtime wear? Candlelight?
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Those things either accentuate the marital act (candles, lingerie) as it was designed or help make up for a fault that would otherwise normally be present (lubrication). They accentuate the act, whereas a sex toy re-creates the marital act.
Are you married?
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No. I was reading the thread and thought “well doesn’t this apply to blow-up dolls?” I will likely bow out now, although I will say MJDorry’s post expresses my concerns in a better way. I think it is something the sex-toy supporters should grapple with.
 
Estevao said:
Those things either accentuate the marital act (candles, lingerie) as it was designed or help make up for a fault that would otherwise normally be present (lubrication). They accentuate the act, whereas a sex toy re-creates the marital act.

No.
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A vibrator may be used as an aid to a marital act. Not in place of it. I thought that was established. What are you gaining from exploring this topic?
 
Maxirad said:
Is it morally just for a married couple to use vibrators?
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Every reference to masturbation is to the goal of sexual pleasure.

Where the marital acts are “procreative and unitive” is the goal the same as sexual pleasure? It seems that the goal then is to reproduce or avoid sin in those that cannot contain (as St. Paul teaches in 1 Cor).

Oxford Dictionary, masturbate (1.1), verb:

[with object] Stimulate the genitals of (someone) to give them sexual pleasure:
‘they masturbated each other in the long grass below the tennis courts’​

Catechism

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. …
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
 
Estevao said:
I thought marriage was between a man and a woman, not between a man, and a woman and a sex-toy. People who support sex-toys are essentially saying to God “You didn’t do a good enough of a job designing this, so we have to improve on it!”.
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Would you say the same of those who support bicycles? Or clothes?
 
Vico said:
Every reference to masturbation is to the goal of sexual pleasure.
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Though every act with pleasure, or the quietening of concpisence, as a goal is not masturbation.

Vico, you are a whizz with quoting relevant reference material, but I would gain more from your posts if you provided more elaboration on the point you are making / the conclusions you are drawing.
 
Estevao said:
The justifications people might use to support sex-toys. It might come in handy one day if I would like to disabuse my wife of the idea that they’re fine.
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If, in the marital act, you would need an aid. You should realize that they are available. I suspect most people do not need them. I dont. But if I were you I’d refrain from developing an understanding that is not grounded in theology and reality. Should you need an aid, I hope you would be more understanding.

Once you develop the actual actions unique to you and your spouse perhaps you will gain an understanding.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
So does that count for medical intervention? Lubrication? Bedtime wear? Candlelight?
Are you married?
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There’s a fundamental difference in the ends of these different objects (no pun intended).
• Medical intervention is necessary for when a person has fallen ill or come under severe bodily harm, and does not interrupt, but seeks to mend the healthy function of the body.

• Synthetic and natural oils are created for lubrication and used during sex to enhance the bodily act of sex. They’re not necessary, but they do not interrupt spiritual aspect of sex.

• I don’t know what you mean by bedtime wear, but pajamas exist for personal comfort and warmth and do not interrupt the essential end of sleep. Lingerie and by extension, candlelight, are used to establish mood, and again do not interrupt, but enhance sex.

Toys, by contrast, superficially mediate and interrupt the fullness of mutual self-surrender that the act of sex is meant to embody. Toys, by their design, whether they are used strictly for foreplay or to achieve orgasm, contradict the intended means of sex. To call them “aids” is to suppose that aid is needed. If it is, you need medical intervention.
 
MJDorry said:
…To call them “aids” is to suppose that aid is needed. If it is, you need medical intervention.
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Lubrication is an aid. Is it needed? Should medical assistance be sought instead? What is the likely medical advice?
 
MJDorry said:
There’s a fundamental difference in the ends of these different objects (no pun intended).
• Medical intervention is necessary for when a person has fallen ill or come under severe bodily harm, and does not interrupt, but seeks to mend the healthy function of the body.

• Synthetic and natural oils are created for lubrication and used during sex to enhance the bodily act of sex. They’re not necessary, but they do not interrupt spiritual aspect of sex.

• I don’t know what you mean by bedtime wear, but pajamas exist for personal comfort and warmth and do not interrupt the essential end of sleep. Lingerie and by extension, candlelight, are used to establish mood, and again do not interrupt, but enhance sex.
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FYI just as a basic female biology issue, sometimes synthetic lubricants are indeed “necessary” in order for the woman to not have an uncomfortable or frankly painful experience.
Toys, by contrast, superficially mediate and interrupt the fullness of mutual self-surrender that the act of sex is meant to embody. Toys, by their design, whether they are used strictly for foreplay or to achieve orgasm, contradict the intended means of sex. To call them “aids” is to suppose that aid is needed. If it is, you need medical intervention.
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I certainly think there’s a danger that some couples will make a fetish of “toys” and it may be prudent not to use them at all for such couples.
 
Rau said:
Lubrication is an aid. Is it needed? Should medical assistance be sought instead? What is the likely medical advice?
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I was being sarcastic and cheeky by referring back to HD’s initial suggestion. Nevertheless, in those women who seek lubricants because their own bodies don’t lubricate well, then while lubricants can suffice as ‘aids’, those women should seek medical attention. There could be other hormonal issues to go along.
 
MJDorry said:
I was being sarcastic and cheeky by referring back to HD’s initial suggestion. Nevertheless, in those women who seek lubricants because their own bodies don’t lubricate well, then while lubricants can suffice as ‘aids’, those women should seek medical attention. There could be other hormonal issues to go along.
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Most women know that hormonal changes do cause vaginal dryness and most doctors and midwives will recommend a lubricant, instead of going right to a prescribing a hormonal treatment. I would rather use K-Y than increase my risk of breast cancer by taking premarin just because my hormones were a little off.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I’m so thankful have the wife I do!
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Speaking as a woman, I bet she’s happy to have the husband she does. Perpetually leaving one partner unsatisfied and frustrated is going to hurt the couple’s sex life, and eventually, marriage.
 
Estevao said:
Wow, I just don’t know how couples stayed together until the sex-toy industry came along.

:rolleyes:
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A breath of fresh air appears! 😃

Seriously, while I am sympathetic to the “modern” viewpoints expressed by some on this thread, we need to remind ourselves that this obsession with sexual performance and orgasm is a secular, liberal tendency and not of the church. A couple who focus exclusively on the latter may be sinning grievously, in the opinion of several Church Fathers. Of course, this does not mean (as one poster wittily said) that sexual intercourse must take place in a rapid, furtive and pleasureless manner - such a teaching runs contrary to both the Old and New Testament. But neither does it mean that we need to go all “Cosmopolitan” or “Maxim” in our approach to conjugal relations. 🙂
 
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