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Sir_Knight
Guest
I wouldn’t say “all”. I would say “most” or “almost all” but not “all”.
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langlob
Guest
This is interesting to me, because I too am a teenage male who struggles with masturbation, and I recently went to confession (on Wednesday) for the first time in a long time, and the priest told me basically the same thing.
First, he told that if I was willing to take the path to stop masturbating, I should set up a jar and force myself to put money in the jar every time I falter, as possible motivation to quit (like smokers sometimes do). But the whole time he stressed the idea that taking that path was not necessary. Then, when I told him that I was also guilty of receiving the host in a state of mortal sin, he asked me, “What was the mortal sin?” and I told him masturbation, and then he said, “That’s not a mortal sin - not for your age.” Basically, he said since I wasn’t willingly doing it for the purpose of separating myself from God, and because I’m young and afflicted with these sort of desires, it’s still of grave matter but not mortal. He also said I should continue receiving the Eucharist since it is a healing sacrament, and I would not be in a state of mortal sin.
I left feeling better about myself, and since then I have masturbated twice, but I still feel wrong afterwards. So I’m not sure whether I’m in a state of mortal sin or not. The priest told me I wouldn’t be, but is he right about that? Could he have been wrong? He gave me absolution and he told me to trust him, that he was right about this.
I’ve never been to this priest before. Now I’m not sure - am I in a state of mortal sin or not? Can I receive the Eucharist at Church or not? Because I haven’t been receiving for a really, really long time.
First, he told that if I was willing to take the path to stop masturbating, I should set up a jar and force myself to put money in the jar every time I falter, as possible motivation to quit (like smokers sometimes do). But the whole time he stressed the idea that taking that path was not necessary. Then, when I told him that I was also guilty of receiving the host in a state of mortal sin, he asked me, “What was the mortal sin?” and I told him masturbation, and then he said, “That’s not a mortal sin - not for your age.” Basically, he said since I wasn’t willingly doing it for the purpose of separating myself from God, and because I’m young and afflicted with these sort of desires, it’s still of grave matter but not mortal. He also said I should continue receiving the Eucharist since it is a healing sacrament, and I would not be in a state of mortal sin.
I left feeling better about myself, and since then I have masturbated twice, but I still feel wrong afterwards. So I’m not sure whether I’m in a state of mortal sin or not. The priest told me I wouldn’t be, but is he right about that? Could he have been wrong? He gave me absolution and he told me to trust him, that he was right about this.
I’ve never been to this priest before. Now I’m not sure - am I in a state of mortal sin or not? Can I receive the Eucharist at Church or not? Because I haven’t been receiving for a really, really long time.
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langlob
Guest
Sir Knight:
I would say the vast majority. But you’re right - not ALL.
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Black_Jaque
Guest
From the CCC:
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To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
This is where the pastor is getting his ideas from. I added the bold font. Please note, nowhere in the Catechism does the Catholic Church teach that habit, passions, or other factors can reduce the gravity of an offense. Rather the CCC teaches that these factor reduce the culpability of the offense.
So masturbation is a grave sin. Your habituation may reduce your culpability of that sin. Now that you know that it is a grave sin, you better be doing something to stop it otherwise your culpability will increase to that of mortal sin.
This is similar to blurting out the phrase “God Damn” when you bump your head. It isn’t voluntary enough to warrant the full punishment of mortal sin. But now that you are aware that you have such an awful habit, you are responsible for putting an end to it.
The method for putting an end to it is to continue confessing it - but you don’t have to confess it before every mass. Confess it every time you go to confession, but you don’t need to rush off to confession every time you commit the sin.
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Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
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**By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
This is where the pastor is getting his ideas from. I added the bold font. Please note, nowhere in the Catechism does the Catholic Church teach that habit, passions, or other factors can reduce the gravity of an offense. Rather the CCC teaches that these factor reduce the culpability of the offense.
So masturbation is a grave sin. Your habituation may reduce your culpability of that sin. Now that you know that it is a grave sin, you better be doing something to stop it otherwise your culpability will increase to that of mortal sin.
This is similar to blurting out the phrase “God Damn” when you bump your head. It isn’t voluntary enough to warrant the full punishment of mortal sin. But now that you are aware that you have such an awful habit, you are responsible for putting an end to it.
The method for putting an end to it is to continue confessing it - but you don’t have to confess it before every mass. Confess it every time you go to confession, but you don’t need to rush off to confession every time you commit the sin.
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langlob
Guest
Black Jaque:
Just one further quesiotn: I kind of took the priest’s advice as a license, even though I figured that wasn’t how he meant it, and have committed the act again twice in the past three days, when I certainly could have mustered the will power not to. Is my culpability, then, greater? Am I in a state of mortal sin, since I didn’t really do anything to stop it?
I will try to continue refraining from now on, but for now I really need to know whether I’m currently in a state of mortal sin due to my wilful submissions, so I can judge whether or not I can receive communion. I kind of knew it was wrong while I was doing it … but at the same time, I wasn’t completely sure, since the priest had said not to worry about it. What do you think?
Thanks for that. I was not aware the CCC taught that about culpability. So does that mean I can still receive the Eucharist?
Just one further quesiotn: I kind of took the priest’s advice as a license, even though I figured that wasn’t how he meant it, and have committed the act again twice in the past three days, when I certainly could have mustered the will power not to. Is my culpability, then, greater? Am I in a state of mortal sin, since I didn’t really do anything to stop it?
I will try to continue refraining from now on, but for now I really need to know whether I’m currently in a state of mortal sin due to my wilful submissions, so I can judge whether or not I can receive communion. I kind of knew it was wrong while I was doing it … but at the same time, I wasn’t completely sure, since the priest had said not to worry about it. What do you think?
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Sir_Knight
Guest
Yes.
Only God knows the answer to that question for sure.
Careful. That’s how sinful habit form which can be extremely difficult to break later on. I speak on experience on this. When I was in my youth, a priest told me that masturbation was not a sin that I neede to confess; nor should it keep me from the sacraments. Later on, when I was in adulthood, something prompted me to confess the sin and I was lectured on how serious it was and that by receiving communion while in a state of mortal sin, I was contributing to my condemnation.It took a number of years of prayer and fasting before I was finally able to kick this sinful habit.
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montanaman
Guest
That’s not an odd confession experience at all. I’ve had priests tell me that before. I knew they were wrong, though.
The oddest confession experience I ever had was fairly recently. I was talking about cycles of temptation, and how I felt powerless against them, and this pudgy priest started telling me about cycles of the moon, and how desire was affected by them, etc. It was such an uncomfortable experience that I haven’t been able to look at the moon since. Lol.
The oddest confession experience I ever had was fairly recently. I was talking about cycles of temptation, and how I felt powerless against them, and this pudgy priest started telling me about cycles of the moon, and how desire was affected by them, etc. It was such an uncomfortable experience that I haven’t been able to look at the moon since. Lol.
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Black_Jaque
Guest
What do *I *think? Whoa! Maybe you should read some of my posts on other threads before you go valuing my opinion. I’m one of the more cantankerous coots here, often disagreeing with many.
I understand about the license thing. From what you tell me it just doesn’t seem that you’re in mortal sin. You’ve learned more since then, but you lacked this knowlege beforehand. But read the CCC paragraphs before and after pp 1860, there’s some scary stuff about feigned ignorance and hardness of heart.
One of the best homilies I’ve ever heard was by an old curmudgeon who said the way to master our concupiscence is through prayer and fasting. Since then I increased my prayer and fasting.
So, strange as it may seem, by eating only bread and water every Friday, and praying the rosary every day - you can actually stop this nasty habit. BTW, you may want to check out E5men on the internet - just to a google search. And if fasting on food isn’t your strongsuit, there are other methods of mortification. Pick something you know you can handle - something that is challenging but one you know you can lick. There are some people whose stomach appetite is their weak spot. If those folks try to fast too much they may only discourage themselves.
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Palamite
Guest
wjp984,
Also, I know that in Catholicism (like in Orthodox Christianity, my faith) that it’s very normal to have a regular confessor to act as one’s spiritual father. While one is at liberty to go to another confessor, this is actually not as spiritually beneficial as regularly going to a single Priest. Why? Because that Priest will come to know you, and your problems, and have a better context in which to offer you meaningful advice. That is impossible if the Priest were supposed to “forget” everything you said.
He has no obligation to “forget everything”, which frankly is impossible for someone to will themselves to do. Thus, he’s not “breaking the seal”. Breaking the seal would be to repeat what he was told, or to do anything which could reasonably allow someone to know what was said by a given penitent (though he can certainly speak very generally of a confession he’s heard to illustrate a point, so long as there’s no possible way to identify who it is he is speaking about.)
Also, I know that in Catholicism (like in Orthodox Christianity, my faith) that it’s very normal to have a regular confessor to act as one’s spiritual father. While one is at liberty to go to another confessor, this is actually not as spiritually beneficial as regularly going to a single Priest. Why? Because that Priest will come to know you, and your problems, and have a better context in which to offer you meaningful advice. That is impossible if the Priest were supposed to “forget” everything you said.
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John-the-Seeker
Guest
I think that others have posted well covering everything from diminished culpability to the fact that sin is sin so I will not elaborate on what has been covered so well by others.
Instead I would like to focus on what is SIN. A person in SIN is a Soul In Need. SIN is a Separation In Nature. We are made in the image of God who is LOVE. To act contrary to His loving nature, which He has given each of us, is to move from selfless to selfish. In other words moving from a place of JOY where Jesus is first, Others next and Yourself last. LIVE backwards is EVIL. To abuse ourselves or place ourselves before others and others before God is the SIN. YOJ does not spell JOY.
Jesus tells us not to sin because it is harmful to us not to spoil our fun.
The other point I wish to discuss is that the priest may, by speaking of your relationship to your parents, be saying that the sin of self abuse might be a symptom, a product of a deeper more serious problem. Perhaps a lack of understanding or appreciation for LIFE and/or Love and God’s purpose for us. As pointed out by others, a regular, prayerful examination of conscience and a meditation on why the sin itself is wrong as opposed to I have committed the sin of disobedience by doing blank X number of times.
May God both bless you richly and guide you in your spiritual self discovery.
Remember Love Is For Everyone and it is found in life.
Instead I would like to focus on what is SIN. A person in SIN is a Soul In Need. SIN is a Separation In Nature. We are made in the image of God who is LOVE. To act contrary to His loving nature, which He has given each of us, is to move from selfless to selfish. In other words moving from a place of JOY where Jesus is first, Others next and Yourself last. LIVE backwards is EVIL. To abuse ourselves or place ourselves before others and others before God is the SIN. YOJ does not spell JOY.
Jesus tells us not to sin because it is harmful to us not to spoil our fun.
The other point I wish to discuss is that the priest may, by speaking of your relationship to your parents, be saying that the sin of self abuse might be a symptom, a product of a deeper more serious problem. Perhaps a lack of understanding or appreciation for LIFE and/or Love and God’s purpose for us. As pointed out by others, a regular, prayerful examination of conscience and a meditation on why the sin itself is wrong as opposed to I have committed the sin of disobedience by doing blank X number of times.
May God both bless you richly and guide you in your spiritual self discovery.
Remember Love Is For Everyone and it is found in life.
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Black_Jaque
Guest
Seeker,
Good points and cute acronyms.
I would like to add one thing: it is definitely a virtue to obey the Church without really understanding why a sin is a sin and a virtue is a virtue. But the Church has some absolutely mind-blowing literature on the nature of sins.
While you are trying to kick the M-habit, and along with your prayer and fasting, you could also read up on the Church’s teaching on sexuality. Some titles:
The Good News About Sex and Marriage
Love and Responsibility
The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality
The Theology of the Body
Casti Canubi
Mulieris Dignitatum
Familiaris Consortio.
Interestingly your struggle for purity may be the greatest contribution you’ve ever made to the Pro-life movement. Let me re-type that:
Your struggle for purity may be the greatest contribution you’ve ever made to the Pro-life movement.
Why? Because sex is sacred. Why is sex sacred? Because human life is sacred, and sex is the font of human life. The reason we kill babies in the womb is we do not think they are sacred.
Treat sex like it is sacred and people will begin treating human life like it is sacred. Simple as that.
Good points and cute acronyms.
I would like to add one thing: it is definitely a virtue to obey the Church without really understanding why a sin is a sin and a virtue is a virtue. But the Church has some absolutely mind-blowing literature on the nature of sins.
While you are trying to kick the M-habit, and along with your prayer and fasting, you could also read up on the Church’s teaching on sexuality. Some titles:
The Good News About Sex and Marriage
Love and Responsibility
The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality
The Theology of the Body
Casti Canubi
Mulieris Dignitatum
Familiaris Consortio.
Interestingly your struggle for purity may be the greatest contribution you’ve ever made to the Pro-life movement. Let me re-type that:
Your struggle for purity may be the greatest contribution you’ve ever made to the Pro-life movement.
Why? Because sex is sacred. Why is sex sacred? Because human life is sacred, and sex is the font of human life. The reason we kill babies in the womb is we do not think they are sacred.
Treat sex like it is sacred and people will begin treating human life like it is sacred. Simple as that.
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