OK, I'm in trouble again!

[Jimzz12]

I’m used to my protestant relatives disliking my Catholicism, but I wasn’t prepared for Catholics to dislike it too. The story: a woman from my parish who is in charge of the Christian Mothers group recently asked me to speak at their meeting. They were interested in hearing my conversion story and in my reasons for becoming Catholic. I agreed to this, but a few days later she called me and asked for a “thumbnail sketch” of what I planned to say. The reason she wanted to know, she said, was because she wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going to “dwell on” the “authority of the higher-ups” as one of my motivations to convert. I was mystified by this and asked who she meant by “higher-ups.” After a lot of hemming and hawing, she told me that most of the women in this group feel that “Rome is the biggest problem the American Church has.” Being a little slow on the uptake, I asked her why they felt that way. This unleashed a rant about contraception (no surprise there) but also the odd (to me, anyway) idea that Rome is preventing Catholic parishes from “fulfilling their potential.” Apparently she feels that the Catholic church should be more entertaining, like the Evangelical mega-church I came from. It seems they were hoping that I would give them ideas about how to “reach out” to Evangelicals by imitating what they are used to at church.

I have never been good at the quick comeback, so I simply said that I felt we should be making Evangelicals aware that we are different, not trying to hide this fact behind a Protestant veneer. Then I made the mistake of telling her that I had become convinced that the Church (yes, Rome) did indeed have authority and that was a major reason I converted. Well, she rescinded her invitation in the nicest possible way, adding that “you and Father will probably get along well.” (The implication was that this was an unfortunate development.)

Naturally, I haven’t been attending Christian Mothers meetings, but apparently I have become a “topic” among some of the women. Now I have total strangers coming up to me either expressing their support of my views or trying to persuade me of theirs. I just want to go to Mass, and this ugliness really appalls me. I spoke to Father about the incident, and he laughed and said, “It’s about time someone stirred the old girls up. I’m just glad it was you and not me.”

My husband and son love this parish, and I’m not willing to split up the family by going somewhere else. I like the priest. I suppose this will all die down in time – right? Thanks for letting me rant!

The lesson here is the usual Catholic admonition against groups. We tend to tolerate their existence in the same way as an ox tolerates the yolk of a plow.

Groups are usually nothing but trouble in the long run. The name of the group itself, Christian Mothers, makes me wary. It seems almost as if it is dipping into gnosticism i.e. some mothers are Christian and other mothers are not. Also the second indication could be drawn out that some women are mothers and some are not. The Church contends that all mothers are in function Christian by virtue of the act of giving life. The Church also contends that all women are mothers from the time of their birth; their natural office having been ordained since birth to motherhood whether this is spiritual motherhood or physical motherhood. This second reason is the truth behind men having the need to be perceptibly ordained to spiritual fatherhood as men do not have this office from birth but rather a vocation.

There is no need to make enemies but it may be your special task. The reason for your conversion may be that you are needed to help draw these wonderful women out of their ways. Harp on the issue of contraception and the authority of Rome with all the force you can muster in good faith through Christ. And begin a Catholic Womens Prayer Society, call it something like the Society of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, where women get together and say the Hours and Office regularly. Do so in the face of the other group. It will be good for the parish. On the flip side help some responsible and elder men in the parish to reignite the Holy Name Society at your area parrishes. Men need the spiritual direction so as to reinforce and hold up the women in the lives. Women are more noble lot than men, but this doesn’t mean they don’t need men to help them here and there.

Last thing: Thank you for coming home. You conversion reaffirms my faith and makes it stronger.

 

[Franze]

In Spain the Chuch is very rotten itself, with the socialist and libertarian winds, our church doesnt defend God, it isnt brave against politicians as now in the crucifixes in the public schools and don´t excomunate these politicians. I´m catholic for tradition, faith and history but the post-vatican II church is sad, very sad.

 

[archangel04]

I’m used to my protestant relatives disliking my Catholicism, but I wasn’t prepared for Catholics to dislike it too. The story: a woman from my parish who is in charge of the Christian Mothers group recently asked me to speak at their meeting. They were interested in hearing my conversion story and in my reasons for becoming Catholic. I agreed to this, but a few days later she called me and asked for a “thumbnail sketch” of what I planned to say. The reason she wanted to know, she said, was because she wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going to “dwell on” the “authority of the higher-ups” as one of my motivations to convert. I was mystified by this and asked who she meant by “higher-ups.” After a lot of hemming and hawing, she told me that most of the women in this group feel that “Rome is the biggest problem the American Church has.” Being a little slow on the uptake, I asked her why they felt that way. This unleashed a rant about contraception (no surprise there) but also the odd (to me, anyway) idea that Rome is preventing Catholic parishes from “fulfilling their potential.” Apparently she feels that the Catholic church should be more entertaining, like the Evangelical mega-church I came from. It seems they were hoping that I would give them ideas about how to “reach out” to Evangelicals by imitating what they are used to at church.

I have never been good at the quick comeback, so I simply said that I felt we should be making Evangelicals aware that we are different, not trying to hide this fact behind a Protestant veneer. Then I made the mistake of telling her that I had become convinced that the Church (yes, Rome) did indeed have authority and that was a major reason I converted. Well, she rescinded her invitation in the nicest possible way, adding that “you and Father will probably get along well.” (The implication was that this was an unfortunate development.)

Naturally, I haven’t been attending Christian Mothers meetings, but apparently I have become a “topic” among some of the women. Now I have total strangers coming up to me either expressing their support of my views or trying to persuade me of theirs. I just want to go to Mass, and this ugliness really appalls me. I spoke to Father about the incident, and he laughed and said, “It’s about time someone stirred the old girls up. I’m just glad it was you and not me.”

My husband and son love this parish, and I’m not willing to split up the family by going somewhere else. I like the priest. I suppose this will all die down in time – right? Thanks for letting me rant!

I know you just want to attend Mass, but God is calling you for a purpose. He calls on those who we all least suspect. Lead by example, know your Faith, and pray pray pray to our Lord for guidance.

 

[peary]

I’m used to my protestant relatives disliking my Catholicism, but I wasn’t prepared for Catholics to dislike it too. The story: a woman from my parish who is in charge of the Christian Mothers group recently asked me to speak at their meeting. They were interested in hearing my conversion story and in my reasons for becoming Catholic. I agreed to this, but a few days later she called me and asked for a “thumbnail sketch” of what I planned to say. The reason she wanted to know, she said, was because she wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going to “dwell on” the “authority of the higher-ups” as one of my motivations to convert. I was mystified by this and asked who she meant by “higher-ups.” After a lot of hemming and hawing, she told me that most of the women in this group feel that “Rome is the biggest problem the American Church has.” Being a little slow on the uptake, I asked her why they felt that way. This unleashed a rant about contraception (no surprise there) but also the odd (to me, anyway) idea that Rome is preventing Catholic parishes from “fulfilling their potential.” Apparently she feels that the Catholic church should be more entertaining, like the Evangelical mega-church I came from. It seems they were hoping that I would give them ideas about how to “reach out” to Evangelicals by imitating what they are used to at church.

I have never been good at the quick comeback, so I simply said that I felt we should be making Evangelicals aware that we are different, not trying to hide this fact behind a Protestant veneer. Then I made the mistake of telling her that I had become convinced that the Church (yes, Rome) did indeed have authority and that was a major reason I converted. Well, she rescinded her invitation in the nicest possible way, adding that “you and Father will probably get along well.” (The implication was that this was an unfortunate development.)

Naturally, I haven’t been attending Christian Mothers meetings, but apparently I have become a “topic” among some of the women. Now I have total strangers coming up to me either expressing their support of my views or trying to persuade me of theirs. I just want to go to Mass, and this ugliness really appalls me. I spoke to Father about the incident, and he laughed and said, “It’s about time someone stirred the old girls up. I’m just glad it was you and not me.”

My husband and son love this parish, and I’m not willing to split up the family by going somewhere else. I like the priest. I suppose this will all die down in time – right? Thanks for letting me rant!

The answer is quite simple: politely excuse yourself from speaking. You don’t have to justify it; just say that you had a previous responsibility or engagement and you will be unable to attend the meeting. And, your best bet woulde be to also excuse yourself from the Hen Club. You don’t need those old clucks in your life!!

 

[wildjmp]

Covert999, the meeting lady sounds like a weirdo lol. She obviously doesn’t understand her “faith” and is trying to perhaps infiltrate and change the Church with her crazy ideas.

 

[wildjmp]

Oh, and fight the good fight!!!

 

[Incomplete]

I know you just want to attend Mass, but God is calling you for a purpose. He calls on those who we all least suspect. Lead by example, know your Faith, and pray pray pray to our Lord for guidance.

And remember the examples of the prophets in the Bible who resisted their calling. Sometimes we’re called to things we don’t want to do. Responding is a great way to show God your love.

 

[wade_a_wilson]

Your story is yet another good example of how “Catholics” can be our own worse enemy.

One of my protestant co-workers came to me one day and told me that his young daughter was taught by the ex-wife (a Catholic) that her dad (my coworker) was definitely going to hell because there was no salvation outside of the church…

It was clear what the ex-wife’s agenda was in this case…

Don’t even get me started on my wife’s extended family. If you ask them if they worship Mary, they respond immediately with “of course we do, every Catholic knows that”…

Try not to let these things discourage you. These Catholics need your help.

-wade

 

[Ohiomom]

Both my husband and our priest gave me essentially the same advice, which was that a “quiet, gentle spirit” is the best witness to people like these women. Father says that since I have only been a Catholic for six months or so, I should concentrate on becoming completely acclimated and let him deal with the “troublesome” people. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Definitely a wise priest. Adoration will do so much to help you grow in the faith and love of our Lord. Prayers on keeping your gentle and humble spirit when dealing with those who try you.

 

[nannygirl]

Definitely a wise priest. Adoration will do so much to help you grow in the faith and love of our Lord. Prayers on keeping your gentle and humble spirit when dealing with those who try you.

Excellent advice.

 

[felsguy]

"My husband would never sanction my leading any kind of group in the Church if it had anything to do with Church teaching. (He believes women should only lead service-related groups.) "

I’m wondering about your implication that you would need your husband’s “sanction” to carry out Jesus’s command to spread the Good News throughout the world. Anticipating that he’ll throw Ephesians 5 (“wives should be subordinate to their husbands”) at me, I’ll counter with Galatians 3 (“there is neither male nor female”).

If that doesn’t work, we’ll get reinforcementment from my wife of 37 years who has been catechizing adults and children for over 45 years with the blessings of many pastors and a bishop or two, not to mention my own enthusiastic support

 

[Ohiomom]

Excellent advice.

Yeah, I keep working on that one daily myself, especially at work

 

[FromTheAshes777]

I’m used to my protestant relatives disliking my Catholicism, but I wasn’t prepared for Catholics to dislike it too. The story: a woman from my parish who is in charge of the Christian Mothers group recently asked me to speak at their meeting. They were interested in hearing my conversion story and in my reasons for becoming Catholic. I agreed to this, but a few days later she called me and asked for a “thumbnail sketch” of what I planned to say. The reason she wanted to know, she said, was because she wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going to “dwell on” the “authority of the higher-ups” as one of my motivations to convert. I was mystified by this and asked who she meant by “higher-ups.” After a lot of hemming and hawing, she told me that most of the women in this group feel that “Rome is the biggest problem the American Church has.” Being a little slow on the uptake, I asked her why they felt that way. This unleashed a rant about contraception (no surprise there) but also the odd (to me, anyway) idea that Rome is preventing Catholic parishes from “fulfilling their potential.” Apparently she feels that the Catholic church should be more entertaining, like the Evangelical mega-church I came from. It seems they were hoping that I would give them ideas about how to “reach out” to Evangelicals by imitating what they are used to at church.

I have never been good at the quick comeback, so I simply said that I felt we should be making Evangelicals aware that we are different, not trying to hide this fact behind a Protestant veneer. Then I made the mistake of telling her that I had become convinced that the Church (yes, Rome) did indeed have authority and that was a major reason I converted. Well, she rescinded her invitation in the nicest possible way, adding that “you and Father will probably get along well.” (The implication was that this was an unfortunate development.)

Naturally, I haven’t been attending Christian Mothers meetings, but apparently I have become a “topic” among some of the women. Now I have total strangers coming up to me either expressing their support of my views or trying to persuade me of theirs. I just want to go to Mass, and this ugliness really appalls me. I spoke to Father about the incident, and he laughed and said, “It’s about time someone stirred the old girls up. I’m just glad it was you and not me.”

My husband and son love this parish, and I’m not willing to split up the family by going somewhere else. I like the priest. I suppose this will all die down in time – right? Thanks for letting me rant!

This is very sad to hear that this group feels this way. Fortunately though it sounds like you have a very orthodox and faithful Priest at your Parish (which is definitely the most important thing). Stand up with your Priest and help defend the true faith! God bless you for doing so. We need orthodox Catholics that are willing to stand up and speak out. Pray for your Priest as well as any other leaders in your Parish that they will hold fast to orthodox Catholocism as well.

‘Prayers going up for you and your family’

 

[fabricdragon]

coming in late, i know

when i went in to my local parish (well A local parish) shaking in my shoes, terrified, asking to speak to someone about converting… the priest asked me
“so why do you want to be a Catholic?” (or something like that, i was about to throw up from nerves)

i said, “well, the Rosary got me involved… but in the end i think its Apostolic Succession”
he looked a bit startled, said. ummm. good! and got me into the RCIA schedule.

YOU are not in trouble.
look at it this way, that group of disobedient children wanted someone to tell them why they converted, as LONG AS you kept to their opinions. when they found out you converted based on obedience (which the church holds as a sacred trust) they dumped you…
because their feet run to evil
their mouths speak of rebellion

probably a lot of people who felt as you did, but thought they were alone! have now found out they are not. we are called to be an example, and sometimes. yes that means to people who shouldnt need us to be.

i know its tough, and i know it is scary… but maybe you can start a social group to let the other obedient daughters of teh church have a place

 

[luminoushope]

"My husband would never sanction my leading any kind of group in the Church if it had anything to do with Church teaching. (He believes ]…should only lead service-related groups.) "

I’m wondering about your implication that you would need your husband’s “sanction” to carry out Jesus’s command to spread the Good News throughout the world. Anticipating that he’ll throw Ephesians 5 (“wives should be subordinate to their husbands”) at me, I’ll counter with Galatians 3 (“there is neither male nor female”).

If that doesn’t work, we’ll get reinforcementment from my wife of 37 years who has been catechizing adults and children for over 45 years with the blessings of many pastors and a bishop or two, not to mention my own enthusiastic support

I think the key here is, indeed, “[your] enthusiastic support.” Praise God for these fine accomplishments! Yet I do disagree with some of your opinions here. I wouldn’t project what Scripture verses this lady’s husband will “throw” or not “throw”. Without wanting to get into a Scripture-tossing contest, I’ve always thought “neither male nor female” refers to Heaven, not here. There are many verses other than Ephesians that reinforce the concept of a wife’s submission to her own husband (1 Peter 3 and others.) It seems to me that each couple must work this out with fear and trembling. I wouldn’t give a woman advice contrary to what her husband has set forth, except perhaps in extreme situations in which I would be running for a priest and/or law enforcement.

That said, I would say to the OP that as a new Catholic, trying to form a new group is not the place I would put my energy. Our American culture runs on the idea of “I must do something!” Sometimes God’s purpose is accomplished by not doing anything, at least not outwardly. This leaves the time and space to enter into the incredible realm of prayer. Scripture says in Romans not to be overcome by evil, but to overcome evil with good. In my opinion, this would be done by graciously withdrawing from the women’s group and not trying to form anything to counter it, at least not right away. Wait for the doors God will open. Also, I think your husband has set a clear boundary and if you stay within it, you will be blessed. Just as an example, in this small community there has been a service group, Meals on Wheels, for over 15 years. Though local Meals on Wheels may take government money, ours doesn’t, which I applaud. It’s strictly volunteer and runs on private contributions. The volunteers are at least 80% from our local parish, notwithstanding that there are about 15 Protestant churches in our community. Just the way it worked out, I guess. Though there is definitely bonding among the workers, the whole thing is based on service to the needy of our community, not women manipulating and digging around in each other’s heads. It is a blessing to be able to serve in this ministry.

By the way, I’ve been in trouble a lot myself in my 60 years.

Blessed Christmas to all,

Luminous Hope

 

[nannygirl]

I think the key here is, indeed, “[your] enthusiastic support.” Praise God for these fine accomplishments! Yet I do disagree with some of your opinions here. I wouldn’t project what Scripture verses this lady’s husband will “throw” or not “throw”. Without wanting to get into a Scripture-tossing contest, I’ve always thought “neither male nor female” refers to Heaven, not here. There are many verses other than Ephesians that reinforce the concept of a wife’s submission to her own husband (1 Peter 3 and others.) It seems to me that each couple must work this out with fear and trembling. I wouldn’t give a woman advice contrary to what her husband has set forth, except perhaps in extreme situations in which I would be running for a priest and/or law enforcement.

That said, I would say to the OP that as a new Catholic, trying to form a new group is not the place I would put my energy. Our American culture runs on the idea of “I must do something!” Sometimes God’s purpose is accomplished by not doing anything, at least not outwardly. This leaves the time and space to enter into the incredible realm of prayer. Scripture says in Romans not to be overcome by evil, but to overcome evil with good. In my opinion, this would be done by graciously withdrawing from the women’s group and not trying to form anything to counter it, at least not right away. Wait for the doors God will open. Also, I think your husband has set a clear boundary and if you stay within it, you will be blessed Luminous Hope

I’m with you, Luminous Hope.

 

[IrishAm]

I told a similarly-minded person recently that “heresy usually doesn’t spring from bad theology; it springs from a lack of obedience and humility.” She wasn’t pleased, but backed off . . .

 

[Jimzz12]

In Spain the Chuch is very rotten itself, with the socialist and libertarian winds, our church doesnt defend God, it isnt brave against politicians as now in the crucifixes in the public schools and don´t excomunate these politicians. I´m catholic for tradition, faith and history but the post-vatican II church is sad, very sad.

Ciao Franze,

Tanto tiempo! I don’t think that the post-Vatican II church is sad and I say this being a Latin Mass sympathizer. Instead, it may be worth taking a look at the Spanish temperment. Recall the many times in the history of the Iberians that the Catholic Faith has been made illegal to practice. The peoples there are always fighting this urge in their nature just as other people fight their respective urges. The Pope talked at length about this in an essay when he was a cardinal. Although, not specifically about the Spanish people but rather as groups of people in general. The fact that God prevails in such adverse conditions in places such as ultra-secularist Spain where religion, in the words of Fr. Barron is treated like a toy only shows us more clearly the Glory of God.

Any rose can grow in a beneficient garden, but for one to grow in the most unlikely of circumstances bring particular joy. Look at the situation China. Ten years ago there was only about 10 million Catholics, and today the number of Catholics is on the order of 100 million. He has a plan. Let us not fret.

 

[convert999]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. In answer to Felsguy, my husband doesn’t “throw verses” at me – I respect my husband as the leader of our family, and he respects me as his God-given helpmate. Although I don’t always agree with everything he believes, I know that God has given him the grace he needs to lead our family effectively. Therefore, I trust his judgement. If more husbands would adopt an attitude of servant-leadership and more women would use submission to their husbands as an act of submission to God as is clearly defined in Scripture, there would be more happy marriages (like mine!)

As for the problem with the Christian Mothers, I find that I have met many more orthodox women through this issue, which is an answer to prayer, since most of my long-time Protestant girlfriends are now ex-friends. God is good! You’ll be happy to hear that even though they disagree with my views, they were happy to ask me for a contribution for the bake sale:shrug:

 

[felsguy]

Mea culpa. I’ll accept my deserved lumps for my poor, nay, flippant attempt at humor via the Scripture throwing remarks (anticipated to be thrown at me, not at you, by the way).

Next, far me it from me to disrupt a relationship with which you are clearly content. Again, mea culpa for not picking up on that from your earlier post.

Also, I grant that your husband is entitled to hold his opinion on the abilities and talents of women and their use or disuse to the same degree as I hold the opposite viewpoint, it also being an opinion.

Finally it is also my opinion that your coming into the Church when and why you did is wonderful and that the group who rescinded their invitation missed out on what would have been an enlightening story.