OK, let's assume a creator

[babylonsfalling]

This is your assumption, and I am going to go along with it - in this thread. Let’s assume that this universe is not all there is. Let’s pretend that your “first something”, “prime whatever”, etc… type of argument was successful. What can be deduced from this assumption? Use your logic only. The only starting point is that the universe does not stand on its own right, that it was created. No reference to faith, revelation and such. No other auxiliary assumptions. What can you say about this creator?

If you don’t like the restrictions, do not post. I am only interested in your logical conclusions. Show me how logical you are. I will post my views later. Don’t want to influence your ideas.

First of all, there’s nothing logical about denying the part of ourselves that transcends “logic”.

Secondly, when a person tries to limit the criteria other people use in their thinking, it’s “logical” to think that person is doing so because of their own limited ability in dealing with ideas outside their own little world. It’s not logical to humor that type of behavior.

Thirdly, what’s logical to one person is not logical to another. Since you really have no credentials in judging others peoples logic, there’s really no reason anyone should be worried about showing you how logical they are.

Regarding your question under the small, limited perspective from which you want it answered, I’ll be illogical and humor you

About all you could say from what you call the assumption is that the Creator would be creative in nature, and since we consider creation to be generally good, the Creator is good.

The details about the Creator come from a logical decision to not deny His existence merely because you can’t see, hear or touch the Creator. That involves accepting one’s natural inner sense of God rather than trying to reject it. From that point, a person’s sense and knowledge of God starts growing very fast.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Spock, friend, let’s forget all the fancy words and debates. ** Where did Everything** come from. Science has massive Data, Evidence: The Clues. Science accepts The Big Bang. (1) **How ** do you question The Big Bang, or Scientic Facts? (2) What is You Theory as Source(s) of Every Thing, friend? PS: What is the Source of Obvious Incredible Intelligence in Every Thing. (Don’t forget the Laws of Calculus, or how to work Calculus problems I had to hire a Tutor for…) :coffeeread::tiphat: Let’s try Common Sense and Logic, based on the Facts. Reason solves a Lot of “Mysteries”, when Examined What, How. Aren’t most Everything Mysterious?
Philosophy is only Thinking. What about hard Reality?

 

[sw85]

So far the answers go from extremely disappointing to not too disappointing. Let’s take them, one at a time.

An empty post, with nothing in it. Rated “F”.

I gather from your posts in the natural law thread that you’re lazy and ill-read, but really, AdriannaJean’s response was best: read Aristotle and Aquinas.

If you can’t be bothered to read old, difficult books, try Edward Feser’s Aquinas.

 

[Wardog]

This is your assumption, and I am going to go along with it - in this thread. Let’s assume that this universe is not all there is. Let’s pretend that your “first something”, “prime whatever”, etc… type of argument was successful. What can be deduced from this assumption? Use your logic only. The only starting point is that the universe does not stand on its own right, that it was created. No reference to faith, revelation and such. No other auxiliary assumptions. What can you say about this creator?

If you don’t like the restrictions, do not post. I am only interested in your logical conclusions. Show me how logical you are. I will post my views later. Don’t want to influence your ideas.

What does this say about the creator?

1. The Creator set boundaries and rules on the universe that He Himself follows. He does not have to, but He apparently uses natural laws instead of supernatural law to make His points. For example, He sent 40 days and 40 nights of rain to flood the world, when He could have just willed the bad people out of existence. He sent 10 plagues of natural phenomena to the Egyptians, when He could have just willed the plagues in place. Why the Creator limits his use of supernatural powers is open for conjecture, but it may be like a scientist not wanting to ruin his experiment with outside influence.
2. The Creator built into his creation chaos and order, one to bring about change and one to stabilize the system. This implies curiousity on his part as He wants to know what change will be brought on the creation he originally created. Order implies that He has the discipline to trust the creation and not unduly interfere with it as it changes.
3. That the creation He built has not been destroyed despite our best attempts to ridicule and deny Him shows the deep love He has for His creations, including us.

 

[jochoa]

This is your assumption, and I am going to go along with it - in this thread. Let’s assume that this universe is not all there is. Let’s pretend that your “first something”, “prime whatever”, etc… type of argument was successful. What can be deduced from this assumption? Use your logic only. The only starting point is that the universe does not stand on its own right, that it was created. No reference to faith, revelation and such. No other auxiliary assumptions. What can you say about this creator?

If you don’t like the restrictions, do not post. I am only interested in your logical conclusions. Show me how logical you are. I will post my views later. Don’t want to influence your ideas.

I would like to offer a logical and developing understanding, which main purpose serves to draw others closer to the Catholic Faith. It also is shared for Harsh Critiques regarding Alignment with Catholic Teachings, for I want to ensure my understandings are aligned with the Church, for The Church is the Truth.

Reflections on the Triune God/Absolutes of the world*

Reflection on the Human Being
Humans have body, mind, will and interactions, and essence. Each is distinct and co-existing. The body can tell the mind what it feels, whereas the mind can tell the body what it thinks. The will and interactions proceed from the body and mind. Each can be of varying qualities of peace, happiness, energy/power, and wisdom, and the pinnacle of being is all distinctions working together as one.
Humans also have Free Will and Free Desires.

Reflection on the unchanging forces of the world*
There are seemingly various gravitational forces in the world as we know it. There is,among many, Gravity - Why a person forcefully seeks the ground if placed in mid-air. Then there are: Peace, Happiness, Energy, Wisdom, and Love - Why a person forcefully desires peace, happiness, energy/power, wisdom, and/or companionship, when a person is distressed or sick, sad or violent, unmotivated or weak, ignorant, or alone. These are the Unchanging Laws of Physics and Metaphysics.
*The use is not bound to any limit of worldliness. It could refer to mind, planet, solar system, galaxy, universe, multi-universes, parallel universes, etc.

Reflection on a few Necessary Components guaranteed at the start of the world:
Necessary Component - Since the Laws of Physics and Metaphysics do not change, these Laws must have been fully in place prior to the beginning. (The Word, focally Mankind)
Necessary Component - All the matter and energy of the world must have been gathered together in Unity (focally the Creator)
Necessary Component - One or both must be True: These Laws must be fully supportive of a State of Perfect Love**, and/or a Perfectly Loving** Creator set the Word. **The Perfect Patience, Peace, Kindness, Happiness, Motivation, Energy, Knowledge, and Wisdom throughout the Body, Mind, Will and Interactions, and Essence towards others and the self (focally communion of the two by the Holy Spirit)
Necessary Component - All of these Components must work together in Unity, to cause the universe to begin, to start the motion of expansion, and to possess all of the resources that can be found in the Universe. (Essence)
It is these Absolutes that we call the Word, The Godhead, the Will, and the Triune God(All Components working as One to be Everything)

Reflection on the components of the Creator:
Humans are created in the image and likeness of the Creator.
The Creator has a Body like Humans (Jesus), has a Mind like Humans (The Father), has a Free Will and Interactions like Humans (The Holy Spirit), and has all three as distinct and co-existing, and working together in complete Unity (The Godhead/Holy Trinity).
The Godhead is Perfect Love - Perfect Patience, Kindness, Motivation, and Knowledge towards others and the self in the Heart, Mind, Strength, and Essence.
The Godhead Eternally lives in Absolute Peace, Happiness, Energy, and Wisdom.

Reflection on the desires of The Godhead:
Our Father wants to share the experience of the Blessings of Peace, Happiness, Energy, and Wisdom with others because of the Awesomeness of Love.
Our Father wants others to Love Freely.

Reflection on the Method by which to Achieve This:
Our Father must devise a plan which:
-grants His Creations Inalienable Rights to Free Will.
-grants His Creations Inalienable Rights to Free Desires.
-places His Creations in a state out of, but seeking Perfect Love.
-places His Creations in a state of unable to be Tangibly Guaranteed of His Existence.

Reflection on Creation of the world:
The Godhead, Perfect Love & Possessor of All, Willed a Word, which is completely supportive and completely of His Free Willed and Perfect Loving Nature, and Made The Word Flesh.

I thank you for your time, consideration, and excellent thought-provoking question! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[hihiip201]

This is your assumption, and I am going to go along with it - in this thread. Let’s assume that this universe is not all there is. Let’s pretend that your “first something”, “prime whatever”, etc… type of argument was successful. What can be deduced from this assumption? Use your logic only. The only starting point is that the universe does not stand on its own right, that it was created. No reference to faith, revelation and such. No other auxiliary assumptions. What can you say about this creator?

If you don’t like the restrictions, do not post. I am only interested in your logical conclusions. Show me how logical you are. I will post my views later. Don’t want to influence your ideas.

I don’t have any problem with the restriction, just curious about the standard you use to rate our respond? how do I get a F or A or anything in between?

 

[AntalKalnoky]

This is your assumption, and I am going to go along with it - in this thread. Let’s assume that this universe is not all there is. Let’s pretend that your “first something”, “prime whatever”, etc… type of argument was successful. What can be deduced from this assumption? Use your logic only. The only starting point is that the universe does not stand on its own right, that it was created. No reference to faith, revelation and such. No other auxiliary assumptions. What can you say about this creator?

If you don’t like the restrictions, do not post. I am only interested in your logical conclusions. Show me how logical you are. I will post my views later. Don’t want to influence your ideas.

Lets not ignore SCIENCE: FACT: (1) The Universe is Expanding at massive rate, as from “Explosion”: Bang. (2) The incrdible Intelligence in Everything: The Precise Electric charges, Everything Physical, To Allow Everything in the Universe, and Us. (3) ** What does Logic, Reason Suggest as CAUSE**? Don’t use Create, Faith, First, Belief, etc., etc. Reason, Logic ONLY. We’re talking Science Facts, not philosophy. Reason, Logic Only, friend Spock