Ok lets have it out.. who is right and who is wrong....

[MariaG]

If I may interject, the musical analogy struck me.
Ina orchestra there is a person (usually the first chair violin) called the concert master (I think). Anyway this person makes sure that all is in order before the conductor comes out. This person is both a leader and a performing member of the orchestra. Thus could be described as first among equals.
Pehaps this will help explain the orthodox view.

Peace
James

Thank you! Yes it does in fact help me to understand the “first among equals” concept much better. Much more that I could say on this, but your analogy really helped.

I still disagree with the interpretation that first among equals does not bring with it a certain amount of power over the choir or else how is the “first violin” supposed to keep order until the conductor comes out?

But thanks

 

[bpbasilphx]

Hasn’t it already been determined that I am right?

Once you realize that, no argument is necessary.

 

[2ndGen]

The Pope is always right.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Another thread im starting, we are basically eating up other threads with this simple argument, who is right and who is wrong with their beliefs… lets get started and stop wasting this on other threads…

Simple? LOL. I don’t think it’s that simple. I will vote for none. None of us truly know who is right and who is wrong. St. Paul says we see through a glass darkly and I believe it. I’ve come to the realization that beliefs are simply that, beliefs, regardless of truth or error.

You might ask how we know the truth then?

Sit in meditation, clear your mind of judgements and beliefs and start fresh. God will let you know. Just let go of the ego.

Peace…

MW

 

[Righteousone]

But what about the days when all people were Catholic in belief? Way before Protestanism even came around. Doesn’t that strike one as Jesus must of started the Catholic faith? It’s clear to me, that is why I am one.

 

[ScottishColleen]

I’ll stick to the Reformed mantra…I’m still Reforming Basically, I think anyone who thinks they are absolutely right is pretty arrogant. We need to study and keep studying…oh, and let’s not forget to study history and context as well

To be honest, I just spent an hour reading in apologetics and there are some Protestants (or should I say, modern offbreaks of true Protestantism) that really embarrass me. I found myself rooting for the Catholics in light of historicity (not all though, the basic facts yes, the pov of the facts sometimes yes and sometimes not). Must be a Reformed thing…we seem to be in the minority in the Protestant world nowadays.

 

[2ndGen]

But what about the days when all people were Catholic in belief? Way before Protestanism even came around. Doesn’t that strike one as Jesus must of started the Catholic faith? It’s clear to me, that is why I am one.

That’s when you run into “The Dissappearing Church” theory where Protestants were always around but had to remain “undercover” and could only meet in homes because they were persecuted by The Catholic Church and since we own all the printing presses, we were able to erase this secret from history.

Now, reality tells us that there has always been only one Church that Jesus Christ started. It was first termed “The Way” and had to remain underground from the true persecutors (Rome and Paganism). It was first known as the universal Church (The Catholic Church) in 110AD.

All other churches can be traced back to a human being having created them (not Jesus Christ unless Jesus Christ gave that person divine persmission to do so by calling).

Only one Church (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever) can be traced back to Saint Peter…the one whom Jesus annointed to start and to shephard His Church…The Catholic Church.

It’s is and that’s that.

There is no negotiating it, there is no denying it, there is no disproving it.

And what Jesus created that He told us would be guided eternally by The Holy Spirit cannot be corrupted nor could it ever misguide us.

Y ya!

(Spanish fo “That’s it!”)

 

[anthony022071]

I’ll respect the catholics view concerning the papal role even if I disagree with it. But catholics have to admit that papal infallibility was not ever mentioned by Fathers and they did not believe it. It was formulated much later after the schism. In that example, the catholic faith differs from the faith of the Fathers.

The teachings of bishop of Rome were always the reference point for orthodoxy and unity throughout the whole Church.

bringyou.to/apologetics/a30.htm

< Antioch (in 341, where about 100 Eastern bishops approved of straight Arianism), Sirmium (in 351, where another 100 or so Eastern bishops espoused semi-Arianism), the Robber Council of Ephesus (in 449-450 which declared Monophysitism to be orthodox doctrine), the numerous “councils” in Constantinople (which included the patriarchs of Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem, which declared Monophysitism to be orthodox), and the councils of Constantinople of 638 and 639 which approved of the Ecthesis, embracing Monothelitism. All these Councils could have been defined historically as “Ecumenical,” if it were not for Rome’s refusal to cooperate with them. >

matt1618.freeyellow.com/papalprimacy.html

< Fr. Afanassieff made the following notations about the famous passages of Irenaeus’ work (in speaking of St. Irenaeus of Lyons work Against All Heresies, where he refers to the priority of the Roman Church). The notations confirm the observations of Dr. Lawson and Dr. Jalland about the role of the Roman See as being pre-eminent from the earliest of times:

“This passage in Irenaeus [from Against Heresies 3:4:1] illuminates the meaning of his remarks about the Church of Rome: if there are disputes in a local church, that church should have recourse to the Roman Church, for there is contained the Tradition which is preserved by all the churches.
Rome’s vocation [in the pre-Nicene period] consisted in playing the part of arbiter, settling contentious issues by witnessing to the truth or falsity of whatever doctrine was put before them. Rome was truly the center where all converged if they wanted their doctrine to be accepted by the conscience of the Church. They could not count upon success except on one condition – that the Church of Rome had received their doctrine – and refusal from Rome predetermined the attitude the other churches would adopt. There are numerous cases of this recourse to Rome…” >

 

[paarsurrey]

My left arm and I agree that the other arm is always right.

Hi

That is very good, I enjoyed it.

Thanks