Do we need “massive” to make a real difference? If one changed heart = one baby saved, isn’t that worth the effort?…Our society today is one based on personal rights and I just can’t see a massive change in mindset. I wish it would change, but I don’t think it’s being realistic. I heard on Catholic radio once someone said we would probably have more success changing hearts than changing laws. How to change hearts is the challenge though.
I guess I misunderstood you. I may have jumped ahead to the first part…actually getting pregnant, and how peer pressure can affect that.I think this has already happened. Abortion is embarrassing and people won’t admit to it. Educate young people, show them what they’re doing, they’ll take care of the rest. Killing your baby is not cool and it’s embarrassing.
Hate to say it, but that’s like a doctor saying we’ll cut out the tumor and worry about the patient bleeding to death later. You can’t do one and ignore the other. Neither can you change laws until you convince people they were poorly conceived at the outset.. Lets stop the killing and worry about changing hearts later.
Sorry but I have been involved in this fight for the better part of three decades. The old “we need to educate people” argument is just an excuse to do nothing. 40 plus million have died while pursuing this Chimera. Abortion has to stop and it has to stop NOW.Hate to say it, but that’s like a doctor saying we’ll cut out the tumor and worry about the patient bleeding to death later. You can’t do one and ignore the other. Neither can you change laws until you convince people they were poorly conceived at the outset.
You are not advocating violent means to do so are you? Like firebombing ‘empty’ buildings?Sorry but I have been involved in this fight for the better part of three decades. The old “we need to educate people” argument is just an excuse to do nothing. 40 plus million have died while pursuing this Chimera. Abortion has to stop and it has to stop NOW.
No-and i dont know of anyone in the movement who does,You are not advocating violent means to do so are you? Like firebombing ‘empty’ buildings?
God bless,
Maria
…On the other hand, we have norms that require us to act to help others, including by preventing aggressors from killing them, whether in abortion or otherwise. Norms requiring positive action, however, are not absolute but are always qualified as to circumstances. The reason is that an action is positively required only if, in the circumstances, it is uniquely well-ordered to the final end, i.e., there is no action available to the agent better ordered to that end than the action in question. Hence, the question as to whether there is an obligation to act—and if so, what that obligation is an obligation to do—always depends on the circumstances, for only by examining the circumstances can we determine which actions are available and how well-ordered to the final end various actions are…
The norm about rescuing the innocent from a violent death, however, is different. Pro-life politicians, and indeed Catholic voters, are required to do what they can to prevent the deaths of innocents, whether in abortion or otherwise, given existing circumstances, which circumstances include political realities and our independent moral obligation to respect the rule of law…
You may not know anyone personally, yet there are those who are misguided and have shot abortion doctors and firebombed clinics so I wanted to make sure you made your position clear.No-and i dont know of anyone in the movement who does,
There have been a miniscule number of people who have done these things and most of them were done well over a decade ago. None of those who did these things were representative of the pro-life movement and in each and every of these incident the pro-life movemnt quiclky and loudly condemned them.You may not know anyone personally, yet there are those who are misguided and have shot abortion doctors and firebombed clinics so I wanted to make sure you made your position clear.
It is important for people to realize that one can be passionately against abortion without resorting to immoral acts and defining exactly what is immoral.
Clearly in this thread, firebombing an “empty” abortion clinic is/was not seen in the same light by all.
God Bless,
Maria
Yes, but even in this thread there was one who could not see the evil in firebombing an empty abortion clinic because of the good it would be doing in stopping abortions. It needs to VERY clear to all that these actions cannont be condoned in anyway, “for the greater good”.There have been a miniscule number of people who have done these things and most of them were done well over a decade ago. None of those who did these things were representative of the pro-life movement and in each and every of these incident the pro-life movemnt quiclky and loudly condemned them.
I think the scorebaord is 3 abortion doctors dead and 40 million children dead. 3 killed by kooks-40 million killed with the full support of the Law. That is what is so sad about all this.
Any LEGAL means possible. After all i am pro-life.Yes, but even in this thread there was one who could not see the evil in firebombing an empty abortion clinic because of the good it would be doing in stopping abortions. It needs to VERY clear to all that these actions cannont be condoned in anyway, “for the greater good”.
I did not mean to imply in anyway that the responsible and passionate people, like you, involved in this fight in anyway endorse this, which is one of the reasons I asked you to clarify your position lest a few here think that you were endorsing any means possible in this fight for the lives of children.
God Bless,
Maria
My take on it is a little different…
Personally I wouldn’t see anything wrong with say, burning an abortion clinic to the ground, so long as no one is in it at the time. I’m not saying “Do it!” or anything. I just don’t see how this would be an evil act in any sense of the term. I mean if you look at it from a certain prespective you might even be Preventing the abortion provider from sinning… I, personally, just don’t see how this is evil.
Catholig
I think Maria, that it is totally against the forums rules to advocate a lawless act, especially a destructive one that could endanger lives. I just want to say that that wasn’t the intent of this thread. I hope no one thinks it’s okay to firebomb a clinic because it’s not!
Yes, most here have denounced evil acts like firebombing. But as you can see above, (and I think you also spoke out against earlier?) at least one person does not have a well defined sense of what is morally permissible and what is not.Any LEGAL means possible. After all i am pro-life.
You’re making no sense…unless you plan to declare yourself King and making a royal pronouncement. Being stuck in a democracy, how do you propose to change a law if you aren’t interested in first convincing people that the law you want changed is bad/wrong/evil?Sorry but I have been involved in this fight for the better part of three decades. The old “we need to educate people” argument is just an excuse to do nothing. 40 plus million have died while pursuing this Chimera. Abortion has to stop and it has to stop NOW.
No one voted in Roe V wade-it was imposed on us by judical fiat. And it is specious to say we need to educate people that killing their children is wrong. we need to continue vote for those who will put pro-life judges on the bench and we need to NEVER< NEVER< NEVER buy into the myth that we can end abotion by “ecducating people”You’re making no sense…unless you plan to declare yourself King and making a royal pronouncement. Being stuck in a democracy, how do you propose to change a law if you aren’t interested in first convincing people that the law you want changed is bad/wrong/evil?
Your argument contradicts itself. If the answer to undoing a decision that was imposed judicially is 1) voting into office officials who will nominate pro-life judges and/or sponsor pro-life legislation, or 2) directly electing pro-life judges to the bench, then, by necessity, don’t you need to educate and persuade people to vote along with you?! Last I checked you needed to win elections by a *majority *of the vote.No one voted in Roe V wade-it was imposed on us by judical fiat. And it is specious to say we need to educate people that killing their children is wrong. we need to continue vote for those who will put pro-life judges on the bench and we need to NEVER< NEVER< NEVER buy into the myth that we can end abotion by “ecducating people”