Ok to take pictures?

[kage_ar]

Yes and you only serve in your 1st mass once! It is a once in a lifetime event.

Then take a kazillion snaps of little Suzy as is all dressed up in her cute little server outfit in the Sacristry before or after Mass.

You don’t have to do it DURING Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

If we limit photos to a first reception of each sacrament as you propose, that would be a neat division between what is and isn’t appropriate. Unfortunately, even you don’t adhere to this, as you said a papal mass would also be an appropriate occasion.

If you notice, though, the pictures at the Papal Mass are done as the Holy Father is processing in and out. That is when you see the faithful taking their pictures. Now, the Papal photographer will take picturers, but, rather discreetly, but, that is the official photographer of the Holy Father, not a proud parent.

Now, on Good Friday, and even at the silent procession on Holy Thursday, photos are not taken by the faithful.

 

[bmadamsberry]

I guess you and I just see worship in different ways. I think that the parent can totally worship G-d as he/she is taking pictures of their child. I don’t think that it ditracts from the Mass for the individual. That’s my opinion. Your opinion that it does is just that, your opinion.
I don’t think anyone can fully understand the importance of the Mass, or the Mass itself, but I do think that I have a good grasp of it all, thank you.
By-the-way, I’m interested in your point about me being incorrect about the consecration’s importance in relation to the rest of the Mass. Which would make you more angry, if the priest didn’t do the Sign of Peace during the Mass or didn’t do the consecration during the Mass?
Because what we are debating IS a matter of opinion, we will probably never agree. I am not trivilizing the Mass in anyway, but I think that some people get so caught up in the “do’s and don’ts” that they, in fact, miss the Mass.
Anyway, G-d bless.

 

[bmadamsberry]

If you notice, though, the pictures at the Papal Mass are done as the Holy Father is processing in and out. That is when you see the faithful taking their pictures. Now, the Papal photographer will take picturers, but, rather discreetly, but, that is the official photographer of the Holy Father, not a proud parent.

Now, on Good Friday, and even at the silent procession on Holy Thursday, photos are not taken by the faithful.

It seems that it might be reverse, that it would be okay for a proud parent instead of an official photographer.

 

[benedictgal]

It seems that it might be reverse, that it would be okay for a proud parent instead of an official photographer.

No, not necessarily. These are trained professionals who also understand and respect the integrity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Incidentally, I spoke to a couple of priests about the OP’s situation and they are of the opinion that if pictures are to be taken, they should be done before or after the Mass, but, not during the Holy Sacrifice.

The Mass is one complete prayer. Your previous post is pretty much a strawman’s argument that really does not compute. We need to understand what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is about and realize that it is not about the persons serving, but, about the Persons being worshipped.

I had the privilege of hearing the former Secretary to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Archbishop Malcolm Ranjinth, speak on the liturgy. This is a snippet of what he said:

Actuosa Participatio
The pope, in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy, defines actuosa participatio as a call to a total assimilation in the very action of Christ the High Priest. It is in no way a call to activism, a misunderstanding that spread widely in the aftermath of Sacrosanctum Concilium. Stated Cardinal Ratzinger: “what does it [active participation] mean…? Unfortunately the word was very quickly misunderstood to mean something external, entailing a need for general activity, as if as many people as possible, as often as possible, should be visibly engaged in action” (The Spirit of the Liturgy, 2000, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, p. 171).

We know that in many places this led to the amalgamation of the sanctuary with the assembly, the clericalization of the laity and the filling up of the sanctuary with the noisy and distracting presence of a large number of people. One could say that virtually Wall Street moved into the sanctuary. But was that really what the Council Fathers advocated? Cardinal Ratzinger does not think so. For him, “the real ‘action’ in the liturgy in which we are all supposed to participate is the action of God Himself. This is what is new and distinctive about Christian liturgy: God Himself acts and does what is essential” (ibid, p. 173).

This kind of participation in the very action of Christ, the High Priest, requires from us nothing less than an attitude of being totally absorbed in Him. Says the cardinal “the point is that, ultimately, the difference between the actio Christi and our own action is done away with. There is only one action, which is at the same time His and ours — ours because we have become ‘one body and one spirit ‘with Him” (ibid p. 174).

Active participation, thus, is not a giving way to any activism but an integral and total assimilation into the person of Christ who is truly the High Priest of that eternal and uninterrupted celebration of the heavenly liturgy.

The Council’s Constitution on the Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, too, as we know, spoke of this when it defined liturgy further as a foretaste of the “heavenly liturgy which is celebrated in the Holy City of Jerusalem towards which we journey as pilgrims, and in which Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, a minister of the sanctuary and of the true Tabernacle” (cf. Rev. 21:2; Col. 3:1; Heb. 8:2)-(SC 8).

Hence, everything we do should help us to achieve that and that alone is the true meaning of the “participatio”: a taking part in a bigger actio. Participatio itself is, I would say, in this sense, an ars [art] where we ourselves are not the artists; neither do we follow an art taught or handed down to us by others, but allow the Lord to be the artist through us, becoming part of what He does. As far as we are concerned, it is participatio in the order of “esse” — being. All that we do in liturgy makes us achieve that union with the eternal high priest, Christ and His sanctifying offering. The more we become part of the oratio of Christ, His eternal self-offering to God as the expiatory Sacrificial Lamb (Rev. 14:1-5), so much more would it be able to transform us into the Logos and make us experience the redeeming effects of such a transformation. Without that, as Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, we would radically misunderstand the “theo-drama” of the liturgy, lapsing into mere parody (cf. ibid p. 175).

What he and Pope Benedict bemoan is the fact that we have made the Mass about ourselves and not about God. Proponents of picture-taking should take the archbishop’s words to heart.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Mkay… I still disagree with you, but do you want me to say something like “you win” or “you’re right”? Again, I don’t agree with you, but some people need those things said.

G-d bless.

 

[Digitonomy]

If you notice, though, the pictures at the Papal Mass are done as the Holy Father is processing in and out. That is when you see the faithful taking their pictures.

I can’t say that I’ve paid a lot of attention to papal masses, since I don’t get EWTN. However, my guess is that 1) The camera angle includes more of the congregation at that point, 2) For much of the crowd, the procession and recession are the points when they are closest to the pope, and thus it’s the best time to take pictures, 3) The procession is a point when photos are less likely to be a distraction to others in the congregation. In other words, I suspect plenty of people take pictures during other parts of the mass, but the ones that do so during the procession are less discreet, more numerous, and more likely to be in the field of view of the camera.

benedictgal:

Now, the Papal photographer will take picturers, but, rather discreetly, but, that is the official photographer of the Holy Father, not a proud parent.

So it is OK to take pictures during mass, it just depends on who you are?

 

[benedictgal]

I can’t say that I’ve paid a lot of attention to papal masses, since I don’t get EWTN. However, my guess is that 1) The camera angle includes more of the congregation at that point, 2) For much of the crowd, the procession and recession are the points when they are closest to the pope, and thus it’s the best time to take pictures, 3) The procession is a point when photos are less likely to be a distraction to others in the congregation. In other words, I suspect plenty of people take pictures during other parts of the mass, but the ones that do so during the procession are less discreet, more numerous, and more likely to be in the field of view of the camera.So it is OK to take pictures during mass, it just depends on who you are?

With all due respect, you seem to be contrary a lot of the times and contradictory. Granted, we all make our points, but, in this case, I must disagree with you and point out the flaws in your support of the picture-taking parent.

The Papal Masses are vastly different from what the OP is suggesting. The point is that the pictures that the faithful take of the Holy Father are generally when he is in procession, not during the Mass itself. When the official photographer of the Holy Father does take pictures, they are generally discreet. The photographer is a professional and has a keen understanding of the Mass. If not, I suspect that the Holy See would have dismissed him.

The Mass really begins with the Sign of the Cross. If the parent wants to take pictures, they can certainly do so during the processional and the recessional, but, not during the actual Mass. When we make the child’s service more important than what is actually happening at the Mass,then, there are serious problems.

 

[Catholic90]

If I wanted to take pictures during mass, I would sit in the front row, turn off my flash, adjust my ISO settings BEFORE mass, and set my shutter sound to silent. I would hold my camera on my lap (not holding it up), snapping photos, and no one would be aware I was doing it.

I have done this numerous times. Several times, the priests have asked me, a lay person, not a professional photographer, but someone who knows her camera quite well, to unobtrusively take photos during certain masses.

Generally, when I do this, I take upwards of 60+ photos, and most of them turn out quite well. The parishioners never know I took them during mass, and they are astounded and amazed, because I do it so discreetly.

It can be done.

 

[Digitonomy]

The Papal Masses are vastly different from what the OP is suggesting. The point is that the pictures that the faithful take of the Holy Father are generally when he is in procession, not during the Mass itself. When the official photographer of the Holy Father does take pictures, they are generally discreet. The photographer is a professional and has a keen understanding of the Mass. If not, I suspect that the Holy See would have dismissed him.

My point was that the broad claim we had previously heard - that photos are never appropriate during the mass - seems to have been quite an overstatement. A more reasonable rule is that it can be appropriate, but only with proper discretion.

benedictgal:

When we make the child’s service more important than what is actually happening at the Mass,then, there are serious problems.

I hate when the papal photographer falls into that trap! Or the couples that invite photographers to their weddings. Obviously your statement is correct, but it didn’t sound like that was occurring in the OP.

 

[benedictgal]

If I wanted to take pictures during mass, I would sit in the front row, turn off my flash, adjust my ISO settings BEFORE mass, and set my shutter sound to silent. I would hold my camera on my lap (not holding it up), snapping photos, and no one would be aware I was doing it.

I have done this numerous times. Several times, the priests have asked me, a lay person, not a professional photographer, but someone who knows her camera quite well, to unobtrusively take photos during certain masses.

Generally, when I do this, I take upwards of 60+ photos, and most of them turn out quite well. The parishioners never know I took them during mass, and they are astounded and amazed, because I do it so discreetly.

It can be done.

Just because it can be done, that does not necessarily mean that it should be done. With all due respect, when you are taking the pictures, though, are you concentrating on the Mass or on what you are doing, taking pictures? I believe that this is a valid question. This is not a slight on your abilities; rather, it is an attempt to get to the real heart of the matter.

As I see it, it is as though the folks who support the picture-taking do not necessarily understand that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not some photo-op for someone serving for the first time, whether it’s as an altar server, a reader or an EMHC. When we start making the event about ourselves and complimenting ourselves on either how good we are serving or how great our picture-taking abilities are, then, as I see it, we have lost sight of why we are there in the first place.

The child serving her first Mass should not be the focus here. God should. After all, are we there to watch our kids, relatives and friends serve their first Mass or are we there to offer God the adoration, praise and worship that is due Him?

 

[benedictgal]

My point was that the broad claim we had previously heard - that photos are never appropriate during the mass - seems to have been quite an overstatement. A more reasonable rule is that it can be appropriate, but only with proper discretion.I hate when the papal photographer falls into that trap! Or the couples that invite photographers to their weddings. Obviously your statement is correct, but it didn’t sound like that was occurring in the OP.

The entrance processional is not the beginning of the Mass nor is the recessional the end of the Mass. The Mass begins with the sign of the Cross and ends with the dismissal. Thus, if you want to get down to technicalities, taking pictures during either the processional or the recessional is not engaging in this activity during the Mass itself.

Nothing precludes the proud parent from taking pictures before the Mass or after. But, this should certainly not happen during the Mass.

 

[Catholic90]

Just because it can be done, that does not necessarily mean that it should be done. When you are taking the pictures, though, are you concentrating on the Mass or on what you are doing, snapping shots? I believe that this is a valid question.

Hmmm…I have had several different priests ask me to do this for certain masses over the years. I presume they all knew what they were asking of me better than you do!

It is as though the folks who support the picture-taking do not necessarily understand that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not some photo-op for someone serving for the first time, whether it’s as an altar server, a reader or an EMHC. When we start making the event about ourselves and complimenting ourselves on either how good we are serving or how great our picture-taking abilities are, then, as I see it, we have lost sight of why we are there in the first place.

Sorry that I am so good an unobtrusively taking photos. I’ll work on that so I become more obvious for you! I can guarantee you that if you came to my parish while I was taking photos, you would never even know I was doing it!

The child serving her first Mass should not be the focus here. God should. After all, are we there to watch our kids, relatives and friends serve their first Mass or are we there to offer God the adoration, praise and worship that is due Him?

Why does it have to be an either/or? Why can’t it be both??

As any parent will tell you, when their son or daughter is helping in some way with the mass, whether it be serving, reading, and singing in the choir, you can bet your bottom dollar that the parents are focused on their child AND worshipping God. I can multi-task!

 

[Digitonomy]

The child serving her first Mass should not be the focus here. God should. After all, are we there to watch our kids, relatives and friends serve their first Mass or are we there to offer God the adoration, praise and worship that is due Him?

The trouble with this line of thought is that it presents a false dichotomy. It’s possible to both watch our kids serve their first mass, and worship God. If we follow your reasoning, it might be better to sit in the back, behind a pillar, so as not to be distracted from all-encompassing worship by the sight of one’s child.

 

[kage_ar]

The trouble with this line of thought is that it presents a false dichotomy. It’s possible to both watch our kids serve their first mass, and worship God. If we follow your reasoning, it might be better to sit in the back, behind a pillar, so as not to be distracted from all-encompassing worship by the sight of one’s child.

You know, there is a pillar in my Church, and many times I have sat behind it. It reminds me of CS Lewis, who choose to sit behind a pillar during services to more focus on God.

 

[kage_ar]

Heck, I cannot see a photographer snapping away during a Nuptual Mass. That would be tacky.

What Catholic weddings I’ve been to, the photographer stays in the Chior loft during the Mass. Photos of a close nature done after the wedding.

 

[lizaanne]

If I wanted to take pictures during mass, I would sit in the front row, turn off my flash, adjust my ISO settings BEFORE mass, and set my shutter sound to silent. I would hold my camera on my lap (not holding it up), snapping photos, and no one would be aware I was doing it.

I have done this numerous times. Several times, the priests have asked me, a lay person, not a professional photographer, but someone who knows her camera quite well, to unobtrusively take photos during certain masses.

Generally, when I do this, I take upwards of 60+ photos, and most of them turn out quite well. The parishioners never know I took them during mass, and they are astounded and amazed, because I do it so discreetly.

It can be done.

So then I am quite sure you attended another Mass on that Sunday so that you could fully participate since acting as “staff photographer” is hardly what I would consider proper participation at Mass. You seem so proud of yourself for doing this - but I would personally be quite embarassed to admit that I spent my Mass taking photos and not paying attention and giving my heart and soul to Christ.

Look folks - do any of you really truly have ANY idea what’s happening at Mass?!!! Do you realize that you are PRESENT AT CALVARY when you are at Mass? That the holy angels are there worshiping and bowing down at that very time and place? Do you GET IT that THIS is what is happening before you very eyes in a non-bloody manner??

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Honestly!!! Does it have to be totally spelled out to you that taking photos of little precious, or anything for that matter, during Mass is just completely inappropriate and a total lack of proper priorities???!!!

I read someone say that some people need to have photos. Well you know what, they need to get their souls to heaven a lot more than they need photos!!!

I am just floored at the total lack of understanding and comprehension of what is going on at Mass. If Jesus Christ appeared on the altar as you see Him above - would you still be snapping away? Well, I have a news flash for you - HE IS THERE JUST THE SAME!!!

~Liza

 

[kage_ar]

For the pro photos in mass crowd - - - do you snap away at funerals?

 

[Catholic90]

So then I am quite sure you attended another Mass on that Sunday so that you could fully participate since acting as “staff photographer” is hardly what** I would** consider proper participation at Mass. You seem so proud of yourself for doing this - but** I would** personally be quite embarassed to admit that I spent my Mass taking photos and not paying attention and giving my heart and soul to Christ.

Well, not everything is about you! You do what you seem proper, and I will do what I seem proper! Fair enough? Good.

Look folks - do any of you really truly have ANY idea what’s happening at Mass?!!! Do you realize that you are PRESENT AT CALVARY when you are at Mass? That the holy angels are there worshiping and bowing down at that very time and place? Do you GET IT that THIS is what is happening before you very eyes in a non-bloody manner??

Yep. Guess what? I can multi task! I have never taken pictures during consecration, so I guess I would say I was focused on that at that time. What is the problem with that?!? Honestly, taking a photo is not real difficult! It’s not like it takes a ton of concentration!

http://jesusisgod.com/ChristsCharacter/Images/ChristCrucified.jpg

Honestly!!! Does it have to be totally spelled out to you that taking photos of little precious, or anything for that matter, during Mass is just completely inappropriate and a total lack of proper priorities???!!!

That is your opinion, not shared by all, obviously.

I read someone say that some people need to have photos. Well you know what, they need to get their souls to heaven a lot more than they need photos!!!

Again, why not both? Honestly, many people CAN do more than one thing at a time!!

I am just floored at the total lack of understanding and comprehension of what is going on at Mass. If Jesus Christ appeared on the altar as you see Him above - would you still be snapping away? Well, I have a news flash for you - HE IS THERE JUST THE SAME!!!

Actually, HECK YES!! All without flash, of course! See, maybe that would be proof of the miracle to bring those on the fence or unbelievers back! You never know…

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

Wow. Speechless.

~Liza