OK to use Byzantine-style Chalice for the Mass?

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Praxis

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Is it permissible to use a Byzantine-style chalice at Mass? I would like to purchase one and ask my pastor to use it now and then at Mass. It would go well with the rather plain sacred vessels we already have (it would be used in place of our current “sacrificial chalice”) and it would be far more dramatic being over a foot tall.

It might even elicit some questions opening-up a chance for some evangelization.

goarch.org/en/chapel/images/t_chalice.jpg
 
That chalice is beautiful but before you do anything speak to the pastor. Your intentions may be pure but when people spend big bucks for the parish in many cases they have an agenda. A wise pastor will not let them impose their taste/understanding of theology etc on the parish.
 
Phemie said:
That chalice is beautiful but before you do anything speak to the pastor. Your intentions may be pure but when people spend big bucks for the parish in many cases they have an agenda. A wise pastor will not let them impose their taste/understanding of theology etc on the parish.
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Oh, I would most definitely ask first. For me it’s not a matter of taste. It’s a matter of underscoring to the faithful that God deserves our best – be it our love for Him or the vessel we use to hold His Precious Blood at Mass. I think seeing a chalice like that at Mass would cause people to think – in a good way.
 
How wonderful that you want to give your parish something beautiful and have the resources to do it! I wish more of us did.

Remember, though, that Byzantine/Rococo style chalices are BIG. If your parish only distributes the Eucharist under one form and the chalice will only be handled by the priest, it would be wonderful. But if people are going to be handling the chalice, it might be too unwieldy. Something like these might be more practical choices.

usagranda.com/images/111.068_lg.jpg
usagranda.com/images/111.121_lg.jpg

And it’s a bit of a financial pipe dream, but if I could, I’d buy this:
kingrichards.com/products.php?uid=13585
 
CatholicNerd said:
How wonderful that you want to give your parish something beautiful and have the resources to do it! I wish more of us did.

Remember, though, that Byzantine/Rococo style chalices are BIG. If your parish only distributes the Eucharist under one form and the chalice will only be handled by the priest, it would be wonderful. But if people are going to be handling the chalice, it might be too unwieldy. Something like these might be more practical choices.

usagranda.com/images/111.068_lg.jpg
usagranda.com/images/111.121_lg.jpg
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We use two different types of chalices – all the property of the parish. One that is semi-ornate that the celebrant takes communion from. It either remains in the sanctuary or is used (along with others) to distribute the Precious Blood to the faithful depending on the celebrant.

Our other chalices (we use a total of four to distribute holy communion) are quite plain and somewhat larger than the above chalice but they would go well with this tall Byzantine chalice.

Now that the priest has left who insisted we ONLY use the plain chalices, I think I would feel comfortable asking my pastor about this. Redemptionis Sacramenum also supports this:

RS 105. If one chalice is not sufficient for Communion to be distributed under both kinds to the Priest concelebrants or Christ’s faithful, there is no reason why the Priest celebrant should
not use several chalices. For it is to be remembered that all Priests in celebrating Holy Mass are bound to receive Communion under both kinds. It is praiseworthy, by reason of the sign value, to use a main chalice of larger dimensions, together with smaller chalices.

FWIW, those Byzantine-style chalices are more Baroque or Plateresque than Rococo…
 
Praxis said:
We use two different types of chalices – all the property of the parish. One that is semi-ornate that the celebrant takes communion from. It either remains in the sanctuary or is used (along with others) to distribute the Precious Blood to the faithful depending on the celebrant.

Our other chalices (we use a total of four to distribute holy communion) are quite plain and somewhat larger than the above chalice but they would go well with this tall Byzantine chalice.

Now that the priest has left who insisted we ONLY use the plain chalices, I think I would feel comfortable asking my pastor about this. Redemptionis Sacramenum also supports this:

RS 105. If one chalice is not sufficient for Communion to be distributed under both kinds to the Priest concelebrants or Christ’s faithful, there is no reason why the Priest celebrant should
not use several chalices. For it is to be remembered that all Priests in celebrating Holy Mass are bound to receive Communion under both kinds. It is praiseworthy, by reason of the sign value, to use a main chalice of larger dimensions, together with smaller chalices.

FWIW, those Byzantine-style chalices are more Baroque or Plateresque than Rococo…
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I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that what you were doing was somehow a bad decision! On the contrary, I think it’s absolutely essential to furnish our priests with the liturgical vessels they need if they are unable (or unwilling) to purchase these things themselves. Perhaps there’s the beginning of a lay apostolate in all of this… 😃
 
CatholicNerd said:
I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that what you were doing was somehow a bad decision! On the contrary, I think it’s absolutely essential to furnish our priests with the liturgical vessels they need if they are unable (or unwilling) to purchase these things themselves. Perhaps there’s the beginning of a lay apostolate in all of this… 😃
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It used to be called the “altar society.” It hasn’t been that many years where we were told that we would NEVER use gold chalices and ciboria again and that the cheap stemware and the glass cereal bowls were here to stay…
 
Praxis said:
It used to be called the “altar society.” It hasn’t been that many years where we were told that we would NEVER use gold chalices and ciboria again and that the cheap stemware and the glass cereal bowls were here to stay…
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As a convert living in a fairly… rebellious archdiocese, I’ve mostly only seen garbage like pottery, stoneware, or pewter in use. The sacristies of most of the parishes where I’ve worked are quite bare.

My “bachelor party” was an evening of polishing and removing years of resin buildup from an old thurible that the parish wedding coordinator didn’t even know they had. By morning it was spotless, and the parish has even used it a few times since then! They still prefer the stone bowl and dancing girl, though… :mad:
 
CatholicNerd said:
As a convert living in a fairly… rebellious archdiocese, I’ve mostly only seen garbage like pottery, stoneware, or pewter in use. The sacristies of most of the parishes where I’ve worked are quite bare.

My “bachelor party” was an evening of polishing and removing years of resin buildup from an old thurible that the parish wedding coordinator didn’t even know they had. By morning it was spotless, and the parish has even used it a few times since then! They still prefer the stone bowl and dancing girl, though… :mad:
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It sounds like we attend the same parish although I am a couple of hundred miles south of the City…

But things are truly changing. It’s all because of a new bishop and a wonderful new pastor. In retrospect our last couple of pastors before our current one were substandard. I am stunned at the difference. Same with the bishop.

I also like the fact that neither my pastor nor my bishop are treating the “pottery guild” as poorly as the former ones treated my friends and I. More and more they are seeing the handwriting on the wall and their is less and less resistance to doing things right…
 
Would there be anything wrong with using a Byzantine-style chalice at a Mass? Something like this, about a foot tall? I have always appreciated how the bases look like crowns on their great height. I think they would add some dignity now and then to the Mass as they do to the Divine Liturgy. Thank you.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I think you’d do best to check with the priest who would potentially be using it. I don’t know of any rules governing what a chalice should look like except that it should be of precious materials. The chalice in the picture, however, is so different from what is customary that I think the pastor would have to decide.
 
Spiller,

It’s a good question, but it strikes as more of a “latin question” than a “byzantine question”. (Conversely, if you wanted to know whether it was alright to insert such-and-such latin element into a byzantine divine liturgy, the thing to do would be to ask ECs rather than LCs.)

It’s nice, however, to see an interest in “Byzantinization” of the mass: usually it’s all a one-way street, i.e. latinization of the byzantine liturgy, not the other way around. (Ties into one of my favorite topics, the whole “Catholic melting pot” idea, but I don’t want to get off on a tangent.)

Blessings,
Peter.
 
Spiller said:
Would there be anything wrong with using a Byzantine-style chalice at a Mass? Something like this, about a foot tall? I have always appreciated how the bases look like crowns on their great height. I think they would add some dignity now and then to the Mass as they do to the Divine Liturgy. Thank you.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn...www.goarch.org/en/chapel/images/t_chalice.jpg
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I agree it’s not an EC question really.

There is nothing that I am aware of that dictates the STYLE of chalice that can be used in a Latin Rite Mass, apart from the previously stated stipulation that it must be of precious material. And that one certainly is beautiful!

I think it is up to the priest who will use it. If I understand correctly, many priests are actually given chalices as ordination gifts or at other times, and some would doubtless want to only use ‘their’ chalice for its sentimental value.
 
LilyM said:
I agree it’s not an EC question really.

There is nothing that I am aware of that dictates the STYLE of chalice that can be used in a Latin Rite Mass, apart from the previously stated stipulation that it must be of precious material. And that one certainly is beautiful!

I think it is up to the priest who will use it. If I understand correctly, many priests are actually given chalices as ordination gifts or at other times, and some would doubtless want to only use ‘their’ chalice for its sentimental value.
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I bet I have set-up and served Mass for 2-3+ dozen priests and ONE used their own chalice and paten…
 
Spiller said:
I bet I have set-up and served Mass for 2-3+ dozen priests and ONE used their own chalice and paten…
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Fair enough, I defer to your superior experience :tiphat: Perhaps they prefer to NOT use the gift ones 🤷

Like I said, there’s nothing against using it per se, but you may want to run it by the priest who’s using it is all.
 
LilyM said:
Fair enough, I defer to your superior experience :tiphat: Perhaps they prefer to NOT use the gift ones 🤷

Like I said, there’s nothing against using it per se, but you may want to run it by the priest who’s using it is all.
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Of course. I saw one in “action” today and it was rather striking. I think one would add a touch of reverence to the Mass is used now and then…
 
LilyM said:
And pricey! :bigyikes: But I suppose the workmanship warrants the price in this case.
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Exactly my reaction towards its price. How much would a chalice for a Catholic parish cost?
 
Milliardo said:
Exactly my reaction towards its price. How much would a chalice for a Catholic parish cost?
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I’ve seen some expensive ones - the most expensive was about $3,500 - but the average would be less than $500, probably. But most of 'em are very simple and a lot would only be plated with precious metal (possibly only on the inside even). For your $5k+ you’d want it to be solid gold or silver.
 
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