Okay, here's a doozy

[Valtiel]

rjs1:

Valtiel,
If you honestly believe that sucking thousands of toxic chemicals into your lungs to be distributed to every organ and cell in your body is NOT health damaging, then I am afraid that you will believe anything, and that includes all the distorted information your brother is giving you about the Catholic Church.

I don’t suck in thousands of chemicals, I don’t smoke those chemicals laddened craps, as I’ve already said, I’ve also already said there is no evidence to show that it does, hows that for people anything and falling for anything. I bet that you didn’t even know there have been 130 smoking tests on animals since the 1950’s, and I bet that you didin’t know every single on of those tests have utterly failed, not failed most of the time, not have failed significantly, but failed completley to cause any lung problems in any of the rabbbits, dogs, monkeys, donkeys, ect…
You know thats asham, I get that way too much. Sad though it’s kind of like my brothers situation, he thinks his distroted view is correct no matter how official it seems. Now lets take this, you have all the data you need to discredite the anti smoking crapola, yet you cling to your distirted view of smoking they have given you saying “nonsense, if you don’t believe what medical science has been saying for years then you’ll believe anything” in the face of so much to the contrary, not to be haughty, but your kind of doing the same thing as my brother…

and I think I had brought up another thread for this so…

 

[InnocentIII]

Valtiel:

I don’t suck in thousands of chemicals, I don’t smoke those chemicals laddened craps, as I’ve already said, I’ve also already said there is no evidence to show that it does, hows that for people anything and falling for anything. I bet that you didn’t even know there have been 130 smoking tests on animals since the 1950’s, and I bet that you didin’t know every single on of those tests have utterly failed, not failed most of the time, not have failed significantly, but failed completley to cause any lung problems in any of the rabbbits, dogs, monkeys, donkeys, ect…
You know thats asham, I get that way too much. Sad though it’s kind of like my brothers situation, he thinks his distroted view is correct no matter how official it seems. Now lets take this, you have all the data you need to discredite the anti smoking crapola, yet you cling to your distirted view of smoking they have given you saying “nonsense, if you beleive what medical science has been saying for years then you’ll believe anything”, not to be haughty, but your kind of doing the same thing as my brother…

And if I may be permitted to give you some advice also Valtiel, stop arguing with everyone about smoking. You won’t win because it is an article of the modern secular faith that smoking is evil, and you will just encourage this thread to continue off track. Just get back to your original request about what to do when your brother attacks your religion - please.

 

[paramedicgirl]

InnocentIII:

And if I may be permitted to give you some advice also Valtiel, stop arguing with everyone about smoking. You won’t win because it is an article of the modern secular faith that smoking is evil, and you will just encourage this thread to continue off track. Just get back to your original request about what to do when your brother attacks your religion - please.

If Valtiel would read as much about the Catholic faith as he does about the so-called health benefits of smoking, he would have no trouble defending his faith

 

[Celia]

Valtiel:

I have known casual smokers to live into their 80’s as well as heavy smokers into their 60’s without ill effect. Also correlation does not mean causation…

This day and age is no differen’t from yester years day and age, the antismoking crowd has gotten way too much influence thus your current opinion. I’m sorry the evidence has been weighed and I have been against this anti smoking hysteria back and forth swaying from side to side, examing over and over this story to fact, and sorry but fact wins out. Statisticly speaking smoking in japan is a greater epidemic but lung cancer and so called smoking related deaths are extremely low. I mean I have given you the data, you can read it for yourself. smoking is not that bad for you…

You didn’t get it from smoking thats for sure, emphysema is genetic, thats the ignorance you get from the anti smoking nonsense. It’s an actual condition where the bodies own enzymes, neutrophil elastase, eat your lungs up…

No how about try that you just hit the unlucky genetic jackpot…

I’ve not known anyone who started out light and didn’t stay light. It’s also not logical that light smoking is unhealthy, when there’s safe level of drinking, there are even safe levels of just about everytype of poison and a good portion of those poisons beneficial in small doses. I find it hard to belie any of this…

To educated to listen to such nonsense, but thank you for your time…

Um, my doctor told me I had early stage emphysema, from smoking. I trust him over this genetic data you’ve collected here, sorry. It might be genetic that encourages the process, sure. Are you totally sure you don’t have that gene in your family? Why risk it?

You don’t know anyone who started out light and didn’t stay light? Well now you do. Hi Valtiel Most of my friends increased their use of cigarettes, over time, as well…in fact, I don’t know anyone that smokes as lightly as they did when they first started.

I guess we’re not convincing you, and this thread is wayyyyy off track (I contributed, my apologies, mods ) So good luck with your smoking, Val. And also best of luck with your apologetics, too!

 

[jeanieous1]

Are you serious that smoking is good for you? tell that to my neighbor, a father of five, who is near death. The cause? Lung cancer, contracted from smoking for over 30 years. Ask my brother in law, who lost his father to emphysema. The cause? a lifetime of cigarette smoking. Sorry to ignore the religion part but i am really upset about my friend it it angers me that you can fall for that garbage about smoking being harmless. who put out these articles you quote? phillip morris?

 

[jimmy]

Valtiel:

Well I got to arguing with my brother again, and this time I was completely whooped, uttely overwhelmed and defeated…

First off we get at it over smoking and how my parents are disaproving of it, I’m 19 years old and smoking really isn’t that bad it infact has healt benefits (I’ve already argued this on the forums), but then he goes on to say that does not matter and that the Bible specificaly says to obey thy mother and thy father, but I say no it says honor thy mother and thy father. Well he then says “thats great you’re manipulating the bible, catholics always manuplate the bible”. I then told him how could that be, the catholic church put your bible together. He then went to say that the catholic church invented paying for sins, and paying for a realitive to get out of purgatory, which of course so lacking in apologetics I could not even begin to answer. He went on about early protestants, I told him that there were no early protestants, he blurted out “why do you think christians started leaving europe for america” I told him that was the 1400’s before that there were no protestants. He said “they were escaping the corruption of the church”. He then goes on to say that the church prevented people from reading the bible so that they couldn’t realize the bible was all that there was, that they could only read it in latin and that they wanted to keep everyone privy to what the bible really said, infact that they put to death anyone who tried to translate it. He said look in any history book, “you’ll see that they say this and much more about the catholic corruption”. I said that has to be only a few churches not the church as a whole, but he said it was happening all over europe. He goes on to how corrupt the church was in killing people, even cited Joan of arc in that they killed one of their own catholics and then made her a saint. He said the bible is all that you need, if you read it you’ll get all that you need to understand, but here is at least where things started to turn. I confronted him about the dilema of such a notion as sola scriptura, in which I got him on some circular reasoning and won that argument. Until his friend’s mom came in the room and completely overwhelemed me, so I cannot even begin to summerize all the points she made. I completely flopped, I should gone back to the begings over and over and explained more about the protestant reformation and their utter catholic beliefs before they went into current day protestantism, the church formed the bible so you have no claim to say we are making things up, and so forth but with some of the things he stumped me on I was just in a rut. But I’m seriously starting to again to sway in my faith, I mean in actuality the catholic church was so corrupt it seemed back them I cannot begin to summerize it all, I’m wondering of just reverting to hoodoo…

Actually, the first translations into English were by Catholics, for example Bede translated the Psalms into English in the 8th century.

 

[jnmpoppie]

Valtiel,
You are experiencing a problem common to many Catholics today. Our faith is both ancient and well supported by both theological and historical scholarship, but many of us are so poorly chatechized that we dont now our own history. An understanding of that history will give us all a sense of common heritage and pride in what our church ha accomplished.
There are several good sources to start with. Catholic Answers at Catholic.net is a good place to start. The website for “(Al) Kresta in the Afternoon” at wdeo.net had an abundance of archived radio interviews and discussions about Catholic history and a great annotated book list. Good readable books like “Triumph” (sorry, author escapes me) and "A Concise History of the Catholic Church " (Bokenkotter) are helpful. Finally a good book countering common misinformation and myths abouot our church is Keatiing’s “Catholcism and Fundamentalism.” Please,don’t let your faith be shaken by people who offer cookie cutter accusations but can cite no specific evidance. If they toss these at you, make them take on the burden of proof. If they say it is in the history books, ask which one. Read your bible and learn your chatechism, not to counter arguments but to enrich your own faith and allow yourself to grow with the grace that God has provided you.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Valtiel:

the catholic church was so corrupt it seemed back them I cannot begin to summerize it all

The Church wasn’t corrupt, but the actions of some Catholics were. Why would that make you not want to be a Catholic, though? If that’s the way you think, then you shouldn’t be a Christian at all because Judas was a corruption from the beginning. Jesus warned us that there would be scandal in the Church, but that doesn’t mean that He would abandon the Church because of it. He is with us always, guiding it in all truth so that the gates of hell will never prevail.