Okay, now I'll complain

[RichT]

Now look what this t-shirt has ultimately done! Let’s all step back from the keyboard and take a breath…

Okay, I saw where someone asked me what I said to the parents. Well, I wouldn’t have felt comfortable saying anything to them. In regards to the whole struggle with the parents, well that is what is wrong with our society today. To many parent are just not willing to accept the responsibilities of being parents. Instead of fighting the fight, they cave into the whims of their children. I remember growing up knowing several young girls who’s parents allowed them to use birth control simply to avoid pregnancy. They figured the girls were going to have sex, so they might as well be sure to not get pregnant. Instead of taking the responsibilitiy more seriously, they caved in. The concept is no different with the t-shirt. What is wrong with our society, that we as parents can allow this to happen? I remember my own mother telling me if I was going to drink, do it at home so I didn’t get myself into trouble. Ha!

Anyway, I have decided to write a letter to the head pastor of my parish to comment on this. I do feel I have an obligation to say something to someone. Hopefully we will soon here a homily or at least a comment on dressing modestly. I know that doesn’t guarantee a fix for everyone, but it does seem to curb the poor clothing choices of many.

God Bless…

 

[RichT]

mkw:

A big question concerning immodest clothing at mass.

…If under working/driving age, Where did they get the money
and transportation to the store in the first place?

As long as I provide the $ and transportation, my children are not free to choose ANY type of clothing they wish, regardless of what their friends have. If they manage to obtain unacceptable clothing, as I am the one doing the laundry, they will get TOSSED.

My kids say I violate their privacy, to which I respond…You live under MY roof,mortagage is in MY name and it is my God entrusted responsibility to rear them the very best I know how.

NO is a great and often time seldom used LOVE WORD.

AMEN!!! Thank you.

 

[Michael_C]

johnnyjoe:

Now there is Charity, and foolish excuse making…this is the latter.

johnnyjoe - Maybe we’re talking about different things. We need more info. If this is a weekly occurance she needs to be corrected. If this is the first time RichT has seen her in Church I stand by what I said. The Lord is interested in the salvation of our soul more than what we wear.

 

[pnewton]

The bruised reed he shall not break: and smoking flax he shall not extinguish: till he send forth judgment unto victory. – Matthew 12:20
This is why Christians must approach each other in charity. We should all be thankful that God does not respond to us with the harshness we wich to rain down on others.

It is hard to gauge how to respond to one in sin without knowing the details, which is why local advise from a parish priest or other local solid Catholic would be helpful in situations like this.

 

[EDB]

The reality is that the shirt in question is inappropriate on a child of 13 in any situation. Unfortunately, parents have allowed the sexualizing(word?) or children for far to long. She is a child and should be treated, dressed and seen as a child - whether in church or the mall. There is a bigger problem here:

1. These parents have no control over a 13 year old child - what will happen at 15-16.
2. These parents see no problem with their child expressing her sexuality.
   Either way, I see it as a sympton of our current societal demise.

 

[caroljm36]

I was corrected during the Eucharist once by a visiting priest. I never knew I was supposed to say “Amen” upon receiving the communion wafer after being a Catholic 5-6 years (you’d think RCIA would have walked us through all this), and I couldn’t hear anyone else saying it. It was startling and I was stung, but it was the harsh tone of his voice more than anything. Still I made a point of taking it to heart rather than resenting him. I am a poor Catholic and will be learning to be a good one the rest of my life. I think young people are terribly quick to anger rather than think, and their parents just back them up. (Notice how criticizing a young person’s actions immediately leads to charges that the they were being “yelled at” no matter how quietly you said it?)

In my parish communion probably would be the only chance the priest would have to straighten someone out, and a quiet, even-toned “you must dress more modestly here my child” would make the point and scarcely be noticed by others over the music.
carol

 

[midwest_mom]

What about RESPECT? Shouldn’t we as parents be teaching out children to respect Jesus and his house. When we go up to receive the body and blood, we are meeting Jesus face to face. Does he deserve only a t-shirt and jeans? My children know when they are ready to leave for Mass, they will be dressed in dresses or dress pants with shirts tucked in. No questions. It’s a part of a bigger problem of people not appreciating the presents of our Lord.
Our parish priest had to “remind” people last week to genuflect to the tabernacle. How sad is that. I think its an important problem we need to deal with.

peace

 

[DrCat]

RichT:

Then apparently they didn’t fight or struggle enough. I as a parent of three daughters, don’t for one minute buy that excuse. That is the same excuse that has allowed parents to be less than what they should be.

As a father of three girls (all of them having survived to adulthood) I have to agree with you. My daughters never dressed inappropriately for Mass. Neither my wife nor I would allow it. We had inspection before leaving, and anybody not dressed appropriately would have to go and change. No fighting, just privleges removed for each offense. They learned quickly.

John

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Michael C:

RichT, I understand your concern but maybe, just maybe the parents fought and struggled to get her to just go to Church. Maybe what you saw as offensive was actually a victory for the parents. We should pray for these people.

It’s not just these people, though.
And it’s not just at Mass (although during a sacred Liturgy, it is most offensive.)
People allow their pubescent daughters to flaunt their developing bodies as though they were marketing them.
If indeed these parents had fought and struggled just to get their daughter to go to Mass (and neither you nor I have any idea whether that actually was the case) then they should’ve insisted that she go to Mass and go looking decently.
How many young boys do you think this girl may have tempted during Mass?
Believe me, taking a young busty developing girl to Mass dressed like that is no “victory.”

 

[otm]

albert cipriani:

If you take your own advice and re-read the posts, you’ll see this:
.:bigyikes:

You will read that the poster found the busty girl’s attire: "absolutely unbelievable! "

You will read that the poster was: "Shocked"

You will read that the immodestly dressed girl was making:
“a spectacle of herself in such a way that men would be looking at her like that”

You know what that spells? The scandal of immodesty compounded by it being sacrilegiously flaunted in the House of God.

Now, who did I “accuse of sinning?” The poster was obviously scandalized. Scandal is a sin. I stated that as a fact, not as an accusation of anyone having committed the sin of scandal. It’s enough to identify the sin. It’s up to God to identify the sinner.

If you insist that I accused someone of sinning, then it is you, sir, who may be committing the sin of bearing false witness against me. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic

http://www.geocities.com/albert_cipriani/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligiousPhilosophy/

If you state that scandal is a sin, you might be a little more articulate as to what you mean. If it is a sin, then someone has sinned. If no one has sinned, then to state that scandal is a sin is an incorrect statement.

If one walked into a Catholic church today and found women there without a head covering, it is entirely possible that one could be scandalized. There would be, however, no sin, and no sinner, as it is not a moral issue. Or, if one were to observe two male Vietnamese walking down the street holding hands, one could be scandalized, presuming that this was a sign of homosexuality. There would be, however, no sin, as it is a cultural difference; two male Vietnamese holding hands is only a sign of friendship in their culture, not a sign of sexual identity.

Sin can be presumed where there is no sin. I am not suggesting that the girl’s attire was anything other than totally inappropriate, period (whether it was in church or anywhere else).

I am suggesting that going around saying that things are a sin needs, perhaps, a little more clarification on your part, and perhaps a little more charity. Wearing the T-shirt was objectively sinful, but it could certainly be questioned as to whether or not it was subjectively sinful.

And as to your remark about the sin of false witness, I would suggest your horse is getting a little high; you might want to dismount and speak with us peons in perhaps less toney language.

I think that it is sufficient in polite discourse to state that the way she dressed gave scandal. I also think that one needs to be careful when one uses the word sin, to define clearly what one means, as many of us poor, uneducated peons are not sophisticated enough to grasp the subtle meaning of what you said, and presume you to state that she, or her parents committed the sins of scandal and sacrilege; you know, we take your statements at face value. If there is a sin, then there must be a sinner…

 

[bear06]

I have a suggestion for you all. Take your family to a Church right outside a retirement community. We rarely see those 79+ year olds in those fire engine red latex suits!

The pastor at the Church we were married in, which we get to when we can, used to always give sermons on appropriate attire for mass. In fact, if someone showed up in a less than appropriate wedding dress, he wouldn’t allow the wedding to procede unless she found a way to make it decent. I’m sure he’d warn them ahead of time. Don’t know what they were thinking!