Okay to support Legionaries of Christ?

[Lifeisawesome]

No doubt - as is always the case with zealous movements and orders in the past. I watched the one in Baltimore recently. Lots of accusations from a few disgruntled folks - nothing substantive determined. The Legion cooperated 100% and it was over… The Bishop stated publicly after his questions were answered and after he had met with RC folks that they were sincere, devout, and orthodox (or something along those lines). For perspective on this I recommend two books, “Padre Pio, the True Story” and “Founders.” It gives a view of history that seems to repeat itself whenever the zealous and holy meet the luke-warm. Many of the Saints incurred vehement opposition from the laity and the clergy. It is a fulfillment of Christ’s promise, “many will hate you on account of me.” Not that folks in these movements of the Spirit have not failed - many have. However, the opposition is often based on other factors.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Those of us who are not particularly heroic (and I count myself among them) are always somewhat taken aback by those who are. Their orientation and ways are always “off” a turn from our own. We who are more immersed in the “natural” often find such people “unnatural” at worst, “odd” at best.

Who, among us who lives in a more “ordinary” way, does not sometimes think of people like Marines, Special Forces or contemplative religious orders as a bit “off kilter”.

But that is not to say we more ordinary folk are not sometimes called upon to heroism of a different sort. Loss of health, for example, can be immensely challenging, and maintaining relationships and faith in such circumstances, can certainly be heroic. But we’re just not all called to be heroic all the time.

People who attempt to meet the challenges of heroic groups often fail. Humans fail in all sorts of ways. That’s not to say trying to meet such challenges is wrong. It has always seemed to me that being a priest at all would be immensely challenging by my standards. Of course, I have heard priests say they think being married is immensely challenging.

Somehow we all fit together in God’s plan, but that doesn’t mean we necessarily see the pattern ourselves. The fact that the Church approves of LOC tells me what I need to know about them. The aberrant “outliers” in any organization don’t tell us about the nature of the organization.

 

[JPUSC]

The fact that the Church approves of LOC tells me what I need to know about them.

One could say the same thing of Pax Christi, an organization recognized by the Vatican, which has had its share of controversy with a connection to the schismatic Call to Action group.

Here’s a statement in support of Pax Christi by Pope John Paul II:
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP950529.htm

Just because the Pope says something good about an organization or the organization seems Catholic doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fully trustworthy or free from error.

One could say the SSPX is heroic because they took a stand to preserve tradition. They stood their ground and remained true to their beliefs. The SSPX outwardly looks Catholic, but it is schismatic.

You can even say that Muslim extremist terrorists who take their faith more seriously than the average person are heroic. The key thing to remember is caution.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One could say the same thing of Pax Christi, an organization recognized by the Vatican, which has had its share of controversy with a connection to the schismatic Call to Action group.

Here’s a statement in support of Pax Christi by Pope John Paul II:
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP950529.htm

Just because the Pope says something good about an organization or the organization seems Catholic doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fully trustworthy or free from error.

One could say the SSPX is heroic because they took a stand to preserve tradition. They stood their ground and remained true to their beliefs. The SSPX outwardly looks Catholic, but it is schismatic.

You can even say that Muslim extremist terrorists who take their faith more seriously than the average person are heroic. The key thing to remember is caution.

I’m not sure what Catholic organization is fully trustworthy or free from error. They’re all composed of human beings.

My point was not that being “heroic” somehow immunizes one from criticism, but that being “heroic” is not, in itself, a reason to condemn an organization.

 

[Lifeisawesome]

Very well said - instead of questioning the Church or these institutions we should deal with our shortcomings in a spirit of charity.

I’m not sure what Catholic organization is fully trustworthy or free from error. They’re all composed of human beings…

 

[sheilathebard]

I tend to be hesitant even to bring this stuff up, but here on the forum, it seemed a good place to give a warning, so I hope no one thinks I am trying to attack charity. I realized several years after coming out of RC that charity is meaningless without some degree of honesty. And it is definitely against charity not to warn people against something you believe may be dangerous.

As for people who were involved and yet never detected anything amiss, I certainly believe that this is true. When you are only a little involved, especially on the lay level, you might never notice anything. But the higher degree of commitment you have, the more things you’re exposed to – generally (and they tend to be careful about this) as you’re “ready” for it, and willing to excuse anything that seems “off.”

Right now, the Vatican is investigating the Legion, not for the first time, in the hopes of repairing any problems. For example, they have abolished the “private vows,” one of which is the vow never to criticize the Legion or one’s superiors, and to report on those who do. You can see how reform would be difficult with a rule like this in place!

I realize the usual advice people give when talking about this is, “Don’t read what their critics say, read what they themselves say.” And I refused to read anything against them for years, choosing to believe my experiences were isolated and the result of misunderstanding on my part. But the critics have a lot of valid things to say, so I would urge anyone to read both sides and see what they can find.

Unfortunately, a forum that used to exist to discuss these things is gone now. Someone had posted excerpts from the Legion’s statutes, which, unlike other orders, they keep completely secret. The Legion sued and won their case, so the website is gone. (A news story on this case: washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090502300.html)

However, there are still several websites that discuss some problematic aspects:

regainnetwork.org

life-after-rc.com/

xlcrc.com

This last is mostly for exmembers, so it may not be as helpful.

If anyone wants more details, I can gladly provide them, drawing only from my own experience, so no one can say I’m speaking without knowledge. I’m working on writing a full testimony, but that will take a long time.

 

[scylla]

I visited and spent time at a Legionaries of Christ seminary. I have not found one thing wrong with them other than the normal human failings you would find with people. They are founded upon some extraordinary expectations which are quite possible with God’s help. For many of us such as I who were in active rebellion of God it seems quite unreasonable, and of course the Legion is not for everyone.

I can understand how the vocations director of San Bernardino would not be supportive of the Legion as they are quite a bit too orthodox for San Bernardino. This diocese getting better but it is still a hotbed of dissent and rebellion of obedience to Christ.

We all need to be more faithful to Christ and I applaud groups like the Legion that support faithfulness to Christ.

Scylla

 

[nsper7]

I know the Legion of Christ has been in contact with me (I filled out an online that went to dozens of religious orders expressing my interest in Holy Orders). The guy on the phone claimed it might be possible to start me in the group fairly quickly after I finish RCIA, although he said it takes 10-12 years to get ordained (they have a long formation process).

Now I wonder if I should be wary about this group.