Old Catholic Church of America

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Can anyone tell me if Old Catholic Church of America has validly ordained priests? Are all of their Bishops validly consecrated?

There’s an OCCA church in my Town that has many catholics greatly confused. I know that OCCA founding bishops were originally Roman Catholic untill they defected. But have all of their subsequent bishops since been validly consecrated?

Appreciate clarifcation on this point.
 
Oblates said:
Can anyone tell me if Old Catholic Church of America has validly ordained priests? Are all of their Bishops validly consecrated?

There’s an OCCA church in my Town that has many catholics greatly confused. I know that OCCA founding bishops were originally Roman Catholic untill they defected. But have all of their subsequent bishops since been validly consecrated?

Appreciate clarifcation on this point.
Click to expand...
A WARNING ON THE OLD CATHOLICS -
FALSE BISHOPS, FALSE CHURCHES
catholicrestoration.org/library/oldcatholics.html
 
First, quoting a sedevacantist website and a 96 year old encyclopedia article probably won’t do.

The “Catholic Restoration” website says their seminary
Rejects the errors and evils of Vatican II.
Click to expand...
Regards the modernist hierarchy as heretics stripped of authority.
Click to expand...
Actually, Old Catholics have apostolic succession and the Church acknowledges that they do. Thier Masses are valid, but not licit. I’ll find a reference.

John
 
John_Higgins said:
First, quoting a sedevacantist website and a 96 year old encyclopedia article probably won’t do.

The “Catholic Restoration” website says their seminary

Actually, Old Catholics have apostolic succession and the Church acknowledges that they do. Thier Masses are valid, but not licit. I’ll find a reference.

John
Click to expand...
Jansenius and Jansenism
newadvent.org/cathen/08285a.htm

Reformed Catholic Church
Priesthood and Episcopacy open to all without any limitations, e.g. gender, sexual preference, marital status
reformedcatholicchurch.org/index2.htm
 
Old Catholics and the Roman Church
Relations between the Roman Catholic Church and Old Catholic churches varies from diocese to diocese. In some places, they are warmly welcomed and assist one another in social justice works. In others, the Roman Bishops attempt to interfere with the valid ministries of Old Catholics. Here are two references that indicate officially, that the Roman Catholic church recognizes Old Catholics are a valid part of the church universal:

The Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church:

Canon 844 §1: Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ’s faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in ß2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 ß2.

§2: Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3: Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the Catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

§4: If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgment of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other Christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.

The late Pope John Paul II issued the document “Dominus Iesus,” which was also signed by then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, (now pope Benedict XVI) on 6 August 2000, which states:

“Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsets in the [Roman] Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in Communion with him. The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the [Roman] Catholic Church remain united to her by means of closest bonds, that is, by Apostolic Succession and a valid Eucharist, are true in particular Churches. Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the [Roman] Catholic Church, since they do not accept the [Roman] Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.”

It seems that the Holy See considers Old Catholic bodies to have valid priests and sacraments based on the above.
 
As far as I know the Old Catholic Church (Union of Utrecht) does not recognize any Old Catholics in the US. The Old Catholics in Europe are considered valid and are in communion with the Anglican Communion (share similar theology).

Old Catholics in the US were in its legit incarnation an attempt to establish Old Catholic Churches here. It did not work out well and resulted in wandering Bishops and a confusing mess. You have some that are quite Orthodox and others that make the Episcopal Church USA look conservative (new agish, etc).

There apparently is an attempt by Utrecht to reach out to these groups with strict ground rules. It is the Conference of North American Old Catholic Bishops:

With the PNCC no longer a member of the Union of Utrecht, the Union’s International Bishops Conference asked the Episcopal Church, its ecumenical partner in the United States, to initiate discussions among various Old Catholics concerning how they identify as Old Catholics, the ecclesiology of various Old Catholic bodies, and whether these various churches ordain women. The Episcopal Church, after having gathered this information, reported to the International Bishops Conference of the Union of Utrecht, the summary of the various experiences of those Old Catholic churches that responded. The report was given at the annual meeting of the IBC in August 2005. The IBC asked the Episcopal Church to host a consultation of these American bishops.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church

That is not to say there are not other legit groups. I read the head of this group is well respected. oldcatholic.org/
More conservative than the Bishop involved with CNAOCB above (from the the Apostolic Catholic Church).

In the end…stick to the Roman Catholic Church (or church in communion with it).

RevNorth
 
I suggest this thread for a good overview of Old Catholics in the US.

As to the OCCA in particular, Archbishop Bostwick derives his episcopal orders from a rather well-established lineage that traces from Archbishops Geraldus Gul, Arnold Harris Mathew, Prince de Landes-Berghes, and Carmel Henry Carfora. Barring defects in the consecration of the two hierarchs, Francis Resch and Walter Brown (and I’m unaware of any allegations as to such involving either), who were intermediate between himself and Archbishop Carfora, it is almost certain that His Excellency has validity to his own episcopal orders.

Many years,

Neil
 
The Polish National Catholic Church (PNCC) broke communion with the other Old Catholics (Utrecht Union) specifically because the Utrecht Union was becoming more liberal, permitting the ordination of female priests.

The ONLY Old Catholic Church with which the Catholic Church (in communion with the bishop of Rome) has a pastoral provision for reception of certain Sacraments is the PNCC.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
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