Old Catholic Church

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There’s this Church that has come to my hometown… They claim to be Catholic but not in communion with Rome… It is disturbing to say the least…

They claim to be “old catholic” and claim to have apostolic succession from a Biship of Ulrecht in the Netherlands who broke away from the Church and formed his own Catholic Church…

How can these independent Catholic Churches decieve people like this when they’re not really part of the one holy catholic apostolic church…

Are they like the Polish National Catholic Church which the Pope recognizes or are they false churches?

Please help many good catholics are being deceived:( !
 
Im not sure about the church you are talking about but the “Old Catholic Church” in my understanding was the result of the schism that happened after Vatican1 back in the 19th century.

Any time there is a counsel there is always the risk of schism.

That is what, to my understanding, the “Old Catholic Church” is.
 
mro said:
There’s this Church that has come to my hometown… They claim to be Catholic but not in communion with Rome… It is disturbing to say the least…

They claim to be “old catholic” and claim to have apostolic succession from a Biship of Ulrecht in the Netherlands who broke away from the Church and formed his own Catholic Church…

How can these independent Catholic Churches decieve people like this when they’re not really part of the one holy catholic apostolic church…

Are they like the Polish National Catholic Church which the Pope recognizes or are they false churches?

Please help many good catholics are being deceived:( !
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Here’s a link to wikipedia which has quite a lot of info about the Old Catholics:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_catholics#Ecumenism
 
Marie5890 said:
Im not sure about the church you are talking about but the “Old Catholic Church” in my understanding was the result of the schism that happened after Vatican1 back in the 19th century.

Any time there is a counsel there is always the risk of schism.

That is what, to my understanding, the “Old Catholic Church” is.
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True. They broke away over Papal Infallibility and are now in communion with the Anglican Church. I think it’s pretty much understood that they are not in communion with the Catholic Church of Rome and are a break-away Church.
 
mro said:
There’s this Church that has come to my hometown… They claim to be Catholic but not in communion with Rome… It is disturbing to say the least…

They claim to be “old catholic” and claim to have apostolic succession from a Biship of Ulrecht in the Netherlands who broke away from the Church and formed his own Catholic Church…

How can these independent Catholic Churches decieve people like this when they’re not really part of the one holy catholic apostolic church…

Are they like the Polish National Catholic Church which the Pope recognizes or are they false churches?

Please help many good catholics are being deceived:( !
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During my adventures in religion I visited one. Not many people. Looks Catholic, sounds Catholic, however as you read may not be Catholic.
 
Do they have valid sacraments like the Polish National Catholic Church or are they a false church?!
 
mro said:
There’s this Church that has come to my hometown… They claim to be Catholic but not in communion with Rome… It is disturbing to say the least…

They claim to be “old catholic” and claim to have apostolic succession from a Biship of Ulrecht in the Netherlands who broke away from the Church and formed his own Catholic Church…

How can these independent Catholic Churches decieve people like this when they’re not really part of the one holy catholic apostolic church…
Click to expand...
What’s the deception? They don’t claim to be part of the Roman Catholic Church. They do have apostolic succession. The Roman Catholic Church does not have exclusive right to apply the term “Catholic” to itself.
 
dingodile said:
What’s the deception? They don’t claim to be part of the Roman Catholic Church. They do have apostolic succession. The Roman Catholic Church does not have exclusive right to apply the term “Catholic” to itself.
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They can claim what ever they want. How can they have apostolic succession when they ignore the chief apostle the bishop of Rome. Peter was the first bishop and now there is Benedict Peter’s successor.
 
mro said:
There’s this Church that has come to my hometown… They claim to be Catholic but not in communion with Rome… It is disturbing to say the least…

They claim to be “old catholic” and claim to have apostolic succession from a Biship of Ulrecht in the Netherlands who broke away from the Church and formed his own Catholic Church…

How can these independent Catholic Churches decieve people like this when they’re not really part of the one holy catholic apostolic church…

Are they like the Polish National Catholic Church which the Pope recognizes or are they false churches?

Please help many good catholics are being deceived:( !
Click to expand...
How are they actually deceiving people? I think they are pretty upfront with their beliefs
 
Phyllo said:
They can claim what ever they want. How can they have apostolic succession when they ignore the chief apostle the bishop of Rome. Peter was the first bishop and now there is Benedict Peter’s successor.
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As far as I can recall, our church does recognise that the Old Catholics have apostolic succession, in a similar way to the Eastern Churches. Just because they don’t accept the Pope’s authority does not mean their Bishops are not properly consecrated - which is the basis for apostolic succession.
 
Leegal said:
True. They broke away over Papal Infallibility and are now in communion with the Anglican Church. I think it’s pretty much understood that they are not in communion with the Catholic Church of Rome and are a break-away Church.
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Not sure what branch of Episcopal they are in communion with. I don’t think it is with the mainstream denomination in England.
 
Phyllo said:
They can claim what ever they want. How can they have apostolic succession when they ignore the chief apostle the bishop of Rome. Peter was the first bishop and now there is Benedict Peter’s successor.
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Apostolic succession means only that every ordained priest and every ordained bishop was ordained by an ordained bishop, in an unbroken succession tracing back to Jesus himself. The Old Catholic Church has that. Apostolic succession does not imply being in communion with the Bishop of Rome, as others have already pointed out.

The Old Catholic Church is indeed schismatic, but that doesn’t invalidate its sacraments or nullify its apostolic succession.

There are plenty of Catholics who value apostolic succession, belief in Real Presence, the Catholic liturgy, but do not accept other aspects of Roman Catholicism, for various reasons. To them, the Old Catholic Church is a viable option.
 
Then why do we make such a big deal over these churches if they have a valid Eucharist and Apostolic succession?

I’ve seen news articles where Bishops hold entire press conferences and rail over these independent and old catholic churches…
 
liturgyluver said:
Just because they don’t accept the Pope’s authority does not mean their Bishops are not properly consecrated - which is the basis for apostolic succession.
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There are actually disputes over the validity of certain Old Catholic ordinations, so I’ve heard.
 
mro said:
Then why do we make such a big deal over these churches if they have a valid Eucharist and Apostolic succession?

I’ve seen news articles where Bishops hold entire press conferences and rail over these independent and old catholic churches…
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The cynical answer is: They don’t like to see their numbers and power further eroded. The more respectful answer is: Although their sacraments are valid some of their doctrines are not. Many Catholics are far more committed to the sacraments and liturgy than to every single doctrine. That’s my observation, anyway.
 
from my studies some catholics even say that everything post second vatican counsel is a heresy. for more info, visit www.fisheaters.com (where i found a lot of info regarding the topic)
 
In another computer I had a list of Old Catholic churches and there are literallyn thousands of them.

It gave the home page for a lot of them, and I looked around.

Many have a bishop but no priests under him.

Several have converted their garages into cathedrals.

Not a few are comprised mostly of homosexuals or divorced and “re-married” ex Catholics.

Most have female clergy.

The common trend seems to be that they are tiny, and go to elaborate lengths to establish their lines of Bishops in apostolic succession.

It may be that the new Old Catholic church in your town is the only one of it’s kind and is in communion with no-one but themselves.
 
andrewstx said:
In another computer I had a list of Old Catholic churches and there are literallyn thousands of them.

It gave the home page for a lot of them, and I looked around.

Many have a bishop but no priests under him.

Several have converted their garages into cathedrals.

Not a few are comprised mostly of homosexuals or divorced and “re-married” ex Catholics.

Most have female clergy.

The common trend seems to be that they are tiny, and go to elaborate lengths to establish their lines of Bishops in apostolic succession.

It may be that the new Old Catholic church in your town is the only one of it’s kind and is in communion with no-one but themselves.
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I think these impressions are accurate, although what may appear to be a “bishop with no one under him” may function as a bishop with respect to other Old Catholic parishes in a fairly large geographical region.

Many rent space from other churches or synagogues, or make use of whatever space they can otherwise obtain. Homosexuals and divorced Roman Catholics often feel that the Roman Catholic church is hostile to them, and it’s no secret that many Catholics find the exclusion of women from the priesthood morally objectionable, so it’s certainly no surprise that many of these people seek a different kind of Catholic home.

That they go to great lengths to establish their apostolic succession should also be no surprise, since belief in apostolic succession is a distinctively Catholic concern. I’d say that they go to no greater lengths than Roman Catholics do; the main difference being that apostolic succession is taken for granted in the Roman Catholic Church. Since anyone who might be curious about the Old Catholic Church might reasonably be suspicious about whether its priests are in apostolic succession, it’s to be expected that they would emphasize this point.
 
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