Old Covenant not revoked

[MarcoPolo]

What is the best way to explain the bold part:

Catechism #121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

 

[mattwcu]

Well that’s true. The Old Covenant has been fulfilled. Sort of like a caterpillar - cocoon - butterfly perhaps? Maybe that’s not the best analogy.

The USCCB catechism has just been changed to no longer say “the old covenant remains eternally valid for them (the Jews)” because it doesn’t. Its not that the old covenant is now bad, its just over.

There is an eschatology point to be made here too, that at the end all Jews will be brought to the fullness of Christ. That means they will be converted to Christianity and more specifically, the Catholic Church. at least this is the interpretation given by theologians and I believe the Church too.

 

[Teflon93]

God keeps His promises.

While the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New, it is not to be despised as some do. Like the covenants with Noah and Abraham, it’s in force, although a better one is available to us.

 

[mattwcu]

I’m sorry but I have to disagree. The Old Covenant is over and no longer in force for anyone. It was fulfilled. God kept his promise, and now has a new one, even and especially for the Jewish people. They will be converted in the fulfillment of time. St. Paul says so but what happens to the individual Jewish people of our day?

Personally, I think they are responsible for converting just as everyone else is. Jesus never said “Pick up your cross and follow me, except the Jews because I didn’t come to revoke your covenant.”

 

[Teflon93]

I’m sorry but I have to disagree. The Old Covenant is over and no longer in force for anyone. It was fulfilled. God kept his promise, and now has a new one, even and especially for the Jewish people. They will be converted in the fulfillment of time. St. Paul says so but what happens to the individual Jewish people of our day?

Personally, I think they are responsible for converting just as everyone else is. Jesus never said “Pick up your cross and follow me, except the Jews because I didn’t come to revoke your covenant.”

So what do you think happened to the righteous first-century Roman Jew who died without having had the opportunity to hear the Gospel since it hadn’t reached Rome yet?

 

[mattwcu]

Oh. I’m not denying invincible ignorance. I assume we entrust them to the mercy of God, if they truly had no opportunity to reject or accept Christ.

 

[bilop]

See this link.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=405

The Catechism language on this is being changed, to clear up this issue.

The old passage said:

Thus the covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.
The amended passage says:

To the Jewish people, whom God first chose to hear his word, 'belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ.

God Bless

 

[Teflon93]

Oh. I’m not denying invincible ignorance. I assume we entrust them to the mercy of God, if they truly had no opportunity to reject or accept Christ.

Right on—I was worried that you were hitting at the underpinnings for invincible ignorance, but you weren’t.

 

[MarcoPolo]

See this link.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=405

The Catechism language on this is being changed, to clear up this issue.

God Bless

I had found this article too in the meantime…seems the bishops thought the language was tricky too. I figured it reflected the sense of Matthew 5:17 also

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[pauliberati]

I’m sorry but I have to disagree. The Old Covenant is over and no longer in force for anyone. It was fulfilled. God kept his promise, and now has a new one, even and especially for the Jewish people. They will be converted in the fulfillment of time. St. Paul says so but what happens to the individual Jewish people of our day?

I’m pretty sure that by the time Paul tells us that “All Israel will be saved” (Rom. 11:26) - he had already established that “Not all of Israel is Israel” (Rom. 9:6-8).

So to say that ALL the physical Jews will be converted, is to say too much for the nation of Israel after the flesh. One of Paul’s main points in the New Testament was to show that a true Jew is not a physical one - but a spiritual one - (Rom. 2:28, 29).

Therefore when Paul says that “All Israel will be saved” he is referring to “The Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16) - which is all of God’s elect from every nation, kindred, tribe, and tongue.