Old Earth vs. Young Earth

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buffalo said:
We can put one right to the test right now - objective prediction on what man will evolve to be?
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Rather open-ended question, there. What kind of timescale? Are we ignoring any conscious changes - or resistance to change - on our part? Maybe we’ll see a speciation event where those who can afford genetic enhancements for their children “enhance” their kids to the point where they can no longer breed with the hoi-polloi. Maybe we’ll move to Mars, gaining height and losing muscle mass. Maybe we’ll stay here and our bodies will eventually learn to process common air pollutants as supplemental nutrition. There are just too many variables to make anything approaching a reliable prediction for us. Humanity is one of those “edge cases” where theories break down: For those who reject God, they still can’t explain how or why we’re so different than any other animal, because there is no purely physical definition that accounts for our mental capabilities (for those of us who do accept that science is the study of the how and when of God’s creation, it’s obvious - we have a rational soul).
 
Gricken said:
This doesn’t help your position. I don’t understand why you keep posting it. If anything it supports what I’m saying. That God could have created the universe over the course of billions of years.

And who said integration is required :confused: most of the things I read on both the religion “side” and the science “side” say the same thing: That Religion and science can easily co-exist without them needing to meddle in each other. In other words, that there are no “sides” because there is no conflict. You are honestly the first person I’ve ever met who says that religion and science must be integrated.

As to your “paginism” comment. I don’t follow your logic. Science and religion not integrated = paganism?
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“meddle”? Then why bother discussing it?

Ed
 
bsroufek said:
Faith in God’s power to create (a young) Earth and man as man (not as an evolved creature) is rewarded by God. I think that the old Earth idea just denies God’s power to create Earth
and the Heavens in a short time.
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How is it rewarded by God? Do you have something that shows this?

I think that an old Earth, and the unbelievably complex processes of an old Earth and evolution show more fully the power of God, than saying that He just snapped His fingers one day and simply created all of this. The depth of creation, when looked at through science, the amazing things that He caused to happen, that He was powerful enough and intelligent enough to coordinate and set in motion and control are simply astounding!!
 
bsroufek said:
In the Creation story, it explicitly says, “evening came and morning followed, the second day” for each of the 6 days. I think there is no excuse to say, “Oh, those nights and mornings were not nights and morning as the languages says, but many years each.”
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How about the fact that is says things like “morning” and “day” before there was a sun or moon. Speaks of symbolic language to me.
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
How is it rewarded by God? Do you have something that shows this?

I think that an old Earth, and the unbelievably complex processes of an old Earth and evolution show more fully the power of God, than saying that He just snapped His fingers one day and simply created all of this. The depth of creation, when looked at through science, the amazing things that He caused to happen, that He was powerful enough and intelligent enough to coordinate and set in motion and control are simply astounding!!
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Jesus raised the dead, removed leprosy and restored sight to the blind without science and technology. God didn’t control anything. It all happened by itself. Just pick up a biology textbook 😉

Ed
 
bsroufek said:
My earlier post about how human population growth shows that man hasn’t been around for more than several thousand years hasn’t been scientifically denied.

You stridently claim that ALL evidence of a young Earth has been refuted pretty handily.

What about the Mississippi delta layers showing a massive flood several thousand years ago?

I think those that believe in an old Earth also disbelieve the flood story. Basically, they deny the power of God because science can’t explain His actions.
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This is highly offensive! You have no business to tell me that I deny anything related to God!! I fully believe in God, and I fully believe in the flood. I also fully believe that God created the universe and everything in it. Finally I believe that He did it a few billion years ago and that science and reason can show us how He did it.

I think that our exploration of creation and the use of the intellect and science that God gave us is indeed highly pleasing to the Lord since we are using the gifts that He gave us to better understand Him and His Power.
 
bsroufek said:
The Creation story shows man being created very close to the time the Earth was created, not millions of years later.

The old Earth model denies God’s power to create, I believe, because it allows no room for miracles.
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Only if you believe in a strict literal interpretation of the Creation story instead of reading it for what it is, an allegory that teaches the power of God and the fact that He alone caused all that exists to exist.
 
edwest2 said:
Jesus raised the dead, removed leprosy and restored sight to the blind without science and technology. God didn’t control anything. It all happened by itself. Just pick up a biology textbook 😉

Ed
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This comment makes about as much sense as picking up the bible to study biology. Nobody here has said miracles don’t happen. Nobody here said that God wasn’t in control. Please stop making false assertations on what we are saying. It’s very rude.
 
edwest2 said:
The old “who and why” canard. Nope. The integration is required or we’ll just see more paganism.

"The Time Question

Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago."

Ed
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Right, the Church has not answered the question. Therefore, we are free to believe either. Science then steps in and answers to the question.

Where is the conflict with the faith when not even Holy Mother Church will say that the science is wrong? Where is the conflict with the faith when the Big Bang Theory was created by a Catholic Priest?
 
Gricken said:
How about the fact that is says things like “morning” and “day” before there was a sun or moon. Speaks of symbolic language to me.
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Nope. It was literal. Just as God AS GOD can cause light and plants or the sun and the moon to appear in any order He wanted. Apparently, God’s ability to DO THINGS ONLY GOD CAN DO has escaped almost everyone here.

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Uh… did I start this thread or the numerous ones before it? Nope.

Ed
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But you did not need to respond. So obviously this is important to you. Perhaps you think that those who believe in an old earth are somehow denying god?🤷

I have no trouble admitting that this is an important subject to me. The level of mistrust for science by some religious people is very frustrating.
 
bsroufek said:
In the Creation story, it explicitly says, “evening came and morning followed, the second day” for each of the 6 days.** I think there is no excuse to say, “Oh, those nights and mornings were not nights and morning as the languages says, but many years each.**”
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If it was that simple the Church would have declared it as part of the Deposit of Faith a long time ago. Obviously there is more to the story.
 
edwest2 said:
Jesus raised the dead, removed leprosy and restored sight to the blind without science and technology. God didn’t control anything. It all happened by itself. Just pick up a biology textbook 😉

Ed
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Strawman.
 
edwest2 said:
Nope. It was literal. Just as God AS GOD can cause light and plants or the sun and the moon to appear in any order He wanted. Apparently, God’s ability to DO THINGS ONLY GOD CAN DO has escaped almost everyone here.

Ed
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Again you make this assertation that we do not believe that God is able to make anything possible. The church does not require us to take Gensis as literal, so why do you act as though we must? And yes. He could cause them in any order he wants. But if you take the story literally, then he created everything in a specific order. If you try and claim he made them in a order not mentioned in the bible, them you must drop gensis as literal.
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
Right, the Church has not answered the question. Therefore, we are free to believe either. Science then steps in and answers to the question.

Where is the conflict with the faith when not even Holy Mother Church will say that the science is wrong? Where is the conflict with the faith when the Big Bang Theory was created by a Catholic Priest?
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Not to mention personally endorsed by Pope Pius XII (link is translated from Italian) in this speech
 
edwest2 said:
Nope. It was literal. Just as God AS GOD can cause light and plants or the sun and the moon to appear in any order He wanted. Apparently, God’s ability to DO THINGS ONLY GOD CAN DO has escaped almost everyone here.

Ed
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Ed, you know you’ve painted yourself into an indefensible corner when St. Augustine - Doctor of the Church and one of the most prolific writers of the Early Fathers, whose credentials regarding how to properly interpret Scripture are undeniable - disagrees with your position: St. Augustine - Commentary on Genesis
 
Monkey1976 said:
Rather open-ended question, there. What kind of timescale? Are we ignoring any conscious changes - or resistance to change - on our part? Maybe we’ll see a speciation event where those who can afford genetic enhancements for their children “enhance” their kids to the point where they can no longer breed with the hoi-polloi. Maybe we’ll move to Mars, gaining height and losing muscle mass. Maybe we’ll stay here and our bodies will eventually learn to process common air pollutants as supplemental nutrition. There are just too many variables to make anything approaching a reliable prediction for us. Humanity is one of those “edge cases” where theories break down: For those who reject God, they still can’t explain how or why we’re so different than any other animal, because there is no purely physical definition that accounts for our mental capabilities (for those of us who do accept that science is the study of the how and when of God’s creation, it’s obvious - we have a rational soul).
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Right, an empirical solution that is observable, repeatable and predictable is not possible. Therefore, evolutionism is philosophy. Agreed?
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
How is it rewarded by God? Do you have something that shows this?

I think that an old Earth, and the unbelievably complex processes of an old Earth and evolution show more fully the power of God, than saying that He just snapped His fingers one day and simply created all of this. The depth of creation, when looked at through science, the amazing things that He caused to happen, that He was powerful enough and intelligent enough to coordinate and set in motion and control are simply astounding!!
Click to expand...
I think, Him thinking it, and it became, is most astonishing.
 
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