Old Folks' Folk Mass

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Okay, this made me laugh.

"I can remember going to my first Catholic Mass and thinking: “These Catholics have the right idea: stand up, sit down, kneel, stand up: keep the blood flowing.” The “sermon” was mercifully short. But the music! After it was over, I said to my Catholic friends: “I liked it, but two things. You need to get rid of the orange carpet, and you need a good Methodist hymnal.” I said this as someone who always hated singing those long Methodist hymns. I still do. But a test-your-patience, eight-verses long Methodist hymn was still preferable to “Gather Us In.”

 
I laughed too, a little ruefully. Back in the 1970s I was in the Folk Group. But you know, 40-45 years on, I would have thought that we would have moved on. Supposedly people were complaining in 1970 (I never heard them but apparently they did) about singing songs that were all ‘old’, and then it was all so great to hear "The Spirit is A ‘Movin’ because hey, they were playing it in the ‘secular world’ at the same time! but it turned into the 1980s and while we had some ‘new music’, and a lot of ‘gender fixing’ of the older 60s, we were still hearing the 60s and 70s (but not earlier), and it turned into the 90s and we were hearing 60s, 70s, and 80s, and the 90s weren’t very productive because hey we will had all that great music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s too! and we moved into the 21st century with almost no new songs written because we had a basic generation of music from the mid 60s to the mid 90s, and that’s what we have had since. If you were a child when this first started you are now getting Medicare and you’re STILL hearing it.

For those of us who have an affinity for words and rhythm, comparing and contrasting the old with the modern one can always find less than stellar tunes and sentiments, but there are a lot more of the ‘less’ in today’s music. Unfortunately in the US and Canada especially, people in the 1960s were ripe for ‘change for change’s sake’ and not well innoculated with a life permeated with musical and artistic beauty. Europeans had glorious cathedrals and paintings. US, from the purely ‘US’ perspective, had an over-arching puritanism. The US, while its Christian roots are strong, is overwhelmingly Protestant in ethic, and Catholics in the mid 20th century in a praiseworthy effort to help build bridges to their brother Protestants, instead of helping to ‘boost them up’ to a higher, more diverse, more sensual and more ‘catholic’ world, divested themselves and in the name of ‘simplicity’ and ‘brotherhood’ put on Protestant robes, set up Protestant tables, and embraced Protestant music. And the secular world of the time was itself being particularly ‘protesting’ all sorts of things. But the Protestants in embracing simplicity and banality found their membership falling away, and the Catholics who followed their lead are seeing the same thing.

No, songs at Mass are not "for the young people’. My own children are in their mid to late 30s now, and they CRINGED when they heard the St. Louis Jesuit songs or Eagles wings (I’m sorry, I know people like that song. The words are not so bad but the tune with its patented folk group swoops and whoops and bad syncopation. . .sigh). Now the grandkids are coming along and they don’t cringe–they LAUGH. They just can’t believe that there are people up there who are Grandma’s age and are crooning over their guitars, wailing to the heavens, shaking arthritic hips to tambourines, and looking and sounding like the Brady Kids gone geriatric and doing musical ‘numbers’.
 
stpurl said:
No, songs at Mass are not "for the young people’. My own children are in their mid to late 30s now, and they CRINGED when they heard the St. Louis Jesuit songs or Eagles wings (I’m sorry, I know people like that song. The words are not so bad but the tune with its patented folk group swoops and whoops and bad syncopation. . .sigh). Now the grandkids are coming along and they don’t cringe–they LAUGH. They just can’t believe that there are people up there who are Grandma’s age and are crooning over their guitars, wailing to the heavens, shaking arthritic hips to tambourines, and looking and sounding like the Brady Kids gone geriatric and doing musical ‘numbers’.
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In a nutshell, this kind of music and outward spirituality didn’t age well. In the 1970s, and to an extent in the 1980s, there was this fervor to “make all things new”, and I also detected a desire by some to make us into an animated, joyous, expressive people who were all excited over the message of Jesus. Well, that is all well and good, but we are not like (let us say) Baptists and Pentecostals who have just “gotten saved” and are “on fire” to manifest this and share this with everyone else we can. The “Catholic way” is more sedate and understated than that. There is a lot of Catholicism that finds its home in the silence of the heart, in deep meditation, and in reverent awe. We are not a “talky-talky” faith. It is more a serene peace, a seeking to live in the everyday presence of God.
 
Ah another music thread, another chance to discuss the role of music in the Mass and the role of the Choir and just who the Choir consists of…

Sits with Irish Mom, eats popcorn and considers what a good methodist hymnal consists of.

So What does a Good methodist Hymnal consist of?

And more importantly, does it contain the hymn 'Amazing Grace"
I love that hymn, It is a devotional hymn, not a liturgical hymn. But very popular at funerals. we sing it a lot at big catholic and small catholic funerals.
We do always seem to dispute which version is the best. but that seems to depend on the organist
 
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We go to the same mass every Sunday, except for once a month when it’s the “folk mass” we wake up extra early and go to the 7:00 that week.
Just for the record, we are a young family as far as our church’s demographics go. I prefer traditional hymns and the organ. I find the guitars distracting during the mass.
 
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That is one of the best articles I have read for years. We still have one of those guys strumming a guitar leading the music at one of our Sunday masses. Trust me, as a father of a bunch of teenagers and young adults, the kids hate it. They don’t just dislike it, the can’t stand it. I don’t blame them, in the 80s when I was in high school and college, I hated it also.
 
I gotta say, us Catholics got the short end of the stick (am I using that right) when we went for the folk music. Methodists are so fortunate.
 
Its up to the bereaved and the deceased to decide their hymn choice and any extra songs. We don’t dictate at a time like that.

We also sing other songs but If they want Amazing Grace, they get it as it is a devotional and is quite beautiful. And if the Bishop approves, so be it.
 
Dominusvobiscum1 said:
And more importantly, does it contain the hymn 'Amazing Grace"
I love that hymn, It is a devotional hymn, not a liturgical hymn. But very popular at funerals. we sing it a lot at big catholic and small catholic funerals.
We do always seem to dispute which version is the best. but that seems to depend on the organist
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Maybe our friend Michael isn’t a wretch, but I am.

Personally, I like the song, and it can be understood in a Catholic way. I don’t care for the song “It Is Well With My Soul” — the Catholic should always be just a little bit suspicious (not scrupulous, two different things) of whether unknown sin has crept into their lives, as well as being mindful of the temporal punishment that is still due us for past sins repented and forgiven. Prayer, the sacraments, frequent confession, and recourse to indulgences both plenary and partial should be uppermost in our minds.

I also noticed that MV kept using the word “most”, as in “most Catholics”. He needs to be careful, that word for some reason sends many people into a tailspin. But I don’t think MV worries too much about sending people into a tailspin. It’s above his pay grade 😜

As I’ve said before, I agree with MV more often than not, I basically like his show, he goes further than I would on some things, and he needs to be mindful of the fact that people don’t like to be called names such as “Protties”. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but I assume he thinks somebody has to be the vinegar.
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About " It is Well", do you know this hymns history? Asking respectfully.
For someone to lose their family like that, and then write these words? Powerful witness, that.
I’ve always taken it to mean that whatever might be going on in my life, however rough, hard, and unwanted, my soul remains fixed on Jesus.

“Whatever my lot, Thou has taught me to say, it is well, it is well with my soul.”
 
Well, I am sorry that you don’t like On Eagles Wings.

To each his own, said the old lady as she kissed the cow (according to my sainted grandmother). 😜
 
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I don’t run screaming from the Church when I hear it, although I find the melody annoying, especially after hearing it so often. As far as the lyrics go, Psalm 90 is one of my favorites. Actually if the composer hadn’t decided to start it off in such a strange way (most people at the churches I’ve been never start singing until, ‘in the shelter of the Lord’ because they can’t figure out the tones of ‘you who dwell’ which kind of hang there musically with people either SCRAAAAAAAAPING up to them or dropping down on them and slipping up and down by half tones, etc) it probably would have been better.

It’s always amusing to me when the song lineup goes from “On Eagles’ Wings” "You who, AKA “yoo-hoo” to “Here I am, Lord”.
 
TC2 said:
About " It is Well", do you know this hymns history? Asking respectfully.
For someone to lose their family like that, and then write these words? Powerful witness, that.
I’ve always taken it to mean that whatever might be going on in my life, however rough, hard, and unwanted, my soul remains fixed on Jesus.

“Whatever my lot, Thou has taught me to say, it is well, it is well with my soul.”
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No, I had no idea. I took some time to educate myself on this (Wikipedia) after I saw your post. I thought it was just another Protestant/evangelical self-congratulatory hymn about being saved or something (think “I’m Going Up To Gloryland”). Thank you for telling me this.

One thing that jumped out at me, when I entered the Catholic world over 40 years ago, is that generally speaking, Catholics don’t talk a lot about themselves when it comes to matters of religion — it’s not as common to hear “I believe”, “I think”, and so on. There’s a lot more “we” and a lot less “I”. One of the first times I ever entered a Catholic home, there was just something different. I couldn’t put my finger on it, it wasn’t something I could articulate, but it was just “there”. The vibe I got — and I am trying to recall something that happened as a child — was that the people in this house have something outside themselves that is more important to them than they are to themselves. Nobody said a word, I just picked up on it. I sensed this time and again in my interactions with Catholics, and I found it very pleasing.
 
There is nothing wrong with Amazing Grace.
Voris is NOT the voice of the Catholic church. In fact, I honestly believe his rhetoric and hyperbole do more harm than good.
 
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At my church, we have 6 Masses over the weekend. One has music with a modern setting of the Mass (latest translation) and fairly modern hymns. One has traditional music, mostly in Latin - some going back to the 15th century. One has 1970s “folk” music with guitars (and elderly musicians). The younger members of the parish seem to think that all three are classical music. A problem with popular music is that it dates very quickly.
 
CapitalistCatholic said:
I gotta say, us Catholics got the short end of the stick (am I using that right) when we went for the folk music. Methodists are so fortunate.
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Yes, Methodists are SOOOO fortunate.

All of you do realize that the UMC is on the verge of a split? A bitter split over homosexuality, gay marriage, gay pastors, abortion rights, and other issues that at one time, were agreed upon by all Christians, Catholic and Protestant.

My parents-in-law have been attending a UMC in Small Town, Illinois, for over 30 years (they were Assemblies of God for the first 40 years of their lives.)

At one time, their church was a vibrant “family” where the Gospel was preached, the liturgy was traditional, the youth group was small but active, and the children’s ministries were booming.

Now it is a stronghold of blatantly EVIL liberal teachings, cushioned by liberal teachings that have support among many Evangelical and Catholic Christians (e.g., income equality, fair housing, immigration laws, etc.)

My father-in-law has been attending Bible studies at our Catholic parish for several year now, and has expressed a wish to talk with our priest–I know he wants to become Catholic mainly because he has seen the descent of his Methodist church into pure evil.

Yes, I agree, the Methodist hymnal is awesome–I use it when I play at various Protestant churches.

But the Methodists are definitely NOT “so fortunate.” They are very, very divided and very, very sad, and many of their churches haven’t touched the Methodist hymnal in years.
 
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