Old-testament and new-testament question

[catholicsaint]

Hey all !!

Are we as roman Catholics meant to go by both the new testament and the old testament ?

why did it have stoning of people in the old testament for ?

Why did Jesus disagree with stoning people for different reasons to do with sin and say in the old testament that it was ok to do !?

Like did Jesus want people to be stoned in the old testament or was it said it the old-testament but not fully meant ?

 

[Della]

Hey all !!

Are we as roman Catholics meant to go by both the new testament and the old testament ?

Yes, but Jesus fulfilled the OT and gave us the Law of Love.

why did it have stoning of people in the old testament for ?

For the same reason we have punishment for crimes in our own day–to punish criminals and as a warning to others not to break the law. At one time all modern countries had laws against adultery, but they have largely been abolished, which I think was a huge mistake, but I digress.

Why did Jesus disagree with stoning people for different reasons to do with sin and say in the old testament that it was ok to do !?

Jesus didn’t disagree with the law, rather he challenged those who were applying the law to only one of the offenders–the woman and not the man who was also guilty of adultery.

Like did Jesus want people to be stoned in the old testament or was it said it the old-testament but not fully meant ?

Jesus did not want the woman caught in adultery to be punished from blood lust rather than first trying her and her co-defendant. Her accusers merely dragged her before Jesus for judgment, which they shouldn’t have done. They were testing Jesus to see what he would say/do–they didn’t care about the woman one way or the other. Nor did they care that the man who committed adultery with her was not to be judged. Jesus saw their hypocrisy and injustice and the woman’s repentance and forgave her. Being God he could do that because as God he was the Author of the Law.

 

[Beryllos]

In a different case, Jesus said: “Because of your hardness of heart he [Moses] wrote this commandment for you.” (Mark 10:5) That passage specifically concerns the law on divorce, but what Jesus said might apply equally well to stoning, an eye for an eye, and other Old Testament laws.

 

[Della]

In a different case, Jesus said: “Because of your hardness of heart he [Moses] wrote this commandment for you.” (Mark 10:5) That passage specifically concerns the law on divorce, but what Jesus said might apply equally well to stoning, an eye for an eye, and other Old Testament laws.

Well, such laws were actually meant to limit punishment and to prevent revenge killing and other such evils, such as killing an unwanted wife instead of giving her a bill of divorce. For example, an eye for an eye meant no more could be exacted as punishment than what was due. You couldn’t kill a man because he put out your eye, for example.

Jesus’ life, death and resurrection brought in a new era of mercy in which the Spirit of God was poured out upon all mankind, thus giving every person a portion of God’s grace. So, our laws changed because of this as Christianity ascended and paganism, such as the Romans practiced it, waned.

 

[manualman]

The bible isn’t a book dropped from heaven specifically for you. Get that idea out of mind, because it’s nuts.

The bible isn’t a book, it’s a library of books that chronicles the story of how God slowly revealed Himself to man over several millennia. In each era, God revealed more of Himself and offered Graces to man to move away from barbarism and towards righteousness.

In Abraham’s day human sacrifice to the God’s was the norm. God tested Abraham to see if he was willing, but didn’t let him actually do it and from that day forward, Israel knew that God did not desire human sacrifices. It’s no longer necessary for US to tie our sons to an altar and be prepared to kill them because God moved us beyond that barbarism (though the same motive sneaks in the back door these days via abortion in all too many cases, but that’s another thread!).

The famous “eye for an eye” verses of the OT are often touted as an example of Judeo-Christian violent ideology, but only by the ignorant. The context of that verse is actually God commanding His people to STOP the usual practice in the day of ESCALATING violence. Before that time, if your rival put out your eye, you killed him. If your rival killed your son, you killed ALL of his sons. And so on. God restrained Israel by prohibiting escalations in violence and (to use Benedict 16’s controversial sentiment) established a “first step towards a more moral concept” of justice and retribution. That morality didn’t culminate until Jesus, but the OT passages chronicle the progress made.

So understand the bible as a story of thousands of years of God slowly drawing his people towards Himself and restoring us to Grace lost in the Fall.

 

[catholicsaint]

Manualman,

I have often wondered why Europe or America or Africa were babarians and jews the chosen race of god. I wonder why so much of man was not the chosen race like the jews were back in biblical times. You are correct though, it was a learning experience from day one. Maybe God wanted to give man a lengthy lesson so it would stick in his head, what right and wrong is. So am I correct in saying the jews used the laws of God too harshly and Jesus had to correct them all ?

 

[catholicsaint]

Thank you Della. Excellent answers.

 

[sousley]

So am I correct in saying the jews used the laws of God too harshly and Jesus had to correct them all ?

Hi catholicsaint. It wasn’t the lay Jews necessarily. Jesus opposed the laws that the Pharisees laid down by their own tradition or stringent enforcement of Mosaic Law that caused heavy burden on the people. An example would be that Pharisees forced the people to adhere not only to there own law but also parts of the duties of the Levitical priests. It was these “extra” traditions that the Pharisees imposed that Jesus challenged them about. For instance, when the Pharisees rebuked Jesus for not washing His hands. But there is nothing in the Mosaic Law that forces the people to wash their hands; this was a tradition that the Pharisees imposed. Think of the Pharisees (very loosely) as sort of a lobbying group.

 

[catholicsaint]

Sousley,

So tell me is everything that I read in the old testament from God or is some what the pharassies put into the old testament ?

If Jesus opposed the pharassies man made laws, would he oppose maybe some of our laws in different countries today, like for example, abortion and so on ??

 

[catholicsaint]

Sousley,

Sorry maybe iam not making sense. Did you say the pharassies made the law of moses extremely difficult for the jewish people ?

like making it extremely hard to stick by ??

And yeah you said they added the bits in that was only for preists. Yeah so they corrupted the law. very interesting read:thumbsup:

 

[sousley]

Sousley,

Sorry maybe iam not making sense. Did you say the pharassies made the law of moses extremely difficult for the jewish people ?

like making it extremely hard to stick by ??

And yeah you said they added the bits in that was only for preists. Yeah so they corrupted the law. very interesting read:thumbsup:

No problem. The Pharisees were really formed into a group in the 2nd century BC (probably around Jonathan Maccabee’s time). They become known to be strict observers of the Law, wanted complete separation from the Gentiles and sinners, and based their sense of holiness on how rigid they were with their observances. Although they had no real authority or position, they demanded much of the people. So when we read the Gospels, we need to realize that Jesus’s rebukes toward them were about their particular policies, not necessarily about a lack of observance of Mosaic Law by the Jewish people.

Pharisees wanted complete separation from the Gentiles. Jesus wanted to gather the Gentiles, even eating at table with them. Pharisees wanted strict observance of the Sabbath. Jesus healed on the Sabbath. Hope that helps