Old Testament Myths

  • Thread starter Thread starter USMC_Convert
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
and in extension, as far as the issue of actual “time” is concerned

Peter said 2 Peter 3:8 ]
Therefore, when comparing time in God’s timing is “like”…? “is like” is NOT meant to be an exact comparison. Make it a million or a billion years is like a day in God’s timing if one wants to, because to God who is outside of time, there is no time. Genesis and science when it comes to timing those events in creation, don’t have to conflict.
It is important to understand that “time” in the first three fascinating chapters of Sacred Scripture is in the material world of science. There is no need for a conflict because the spiritual world of God is not similar to the material world of science. There is no comparison.

It is the point where material science intersects with the spiritual world of God that can lead to serious conflict.
 
Not every miracle or wonder recorded in the Bible is going to be literally true and there is nothing wrong or misplaced in applying reason to guage the liklihood of the more extreme examples.
Jesus’ resurrection is not an “extreme example”? What do we conclude when we apply reason to it?

Tim didn’t want to go down the path where he tells us which of Jesus’ miracles actually happened and which didn’t. But you could, if you’d like. As I said, there are people who deny that any miracles ever occurred, so you’re not offering anything new here.

What we end up with is a collection of myths and fictional accounts.
 
and in extension, as far as the issue of actual “time” in Genesis is concerned,

for example,

Peter said 2 Peter 3:8 ]
Therefore, when comparing time in God’s timing is “like”…? “is like” is NOT meant to be an exact comparison. Make it a million or a billion years is like a day in God’s timing, because to God who is outside of time, there is no time. So technically, Genesis and science when it comes to timing those events in creation, don’t have to conflict.
Whenever we attend Mass, we return to the Calvary. The Mass is outside of time.
It is how we can we respond to those criticize the Catholic Church, thinking that we are offering a new sacrifice every week. * They don’t know that the Communion of Saints joins us at the altar. It’s why the priest takes three steps back during the consecration (to make room for the Saints).
When we pray the LOTH, we honor the hours of the day. The Church in keeping with St. Paul’s words prays unceasingly because the world rotates.
The Catholic Church teaches us to read the Bible as a whole, the OT sheds light on the NT. It also explicitly says “do not quibble about words.”
There are non-believers who will pick out verses from scripture to show its apparent contradictions. It is why I find the instructions I was given as a Freshman in college so freeing. “Let the Bible question you.”
After God makes Eve from Adam’s rib in Genesis, we read “and that is why a man must leave mother and father and cling to his wife.”
Later in Exodus, God gives the Israelites the 10 Commandments. Included is the only Commandment with a promise. “Honor your father and mother.”
The correct relationship between newlyweds and their parents and new in-laws is found in the book of Tobit.
The oneness of the relationship created between man and woman through marriage is often referenced in the OT, and affirmed as a Sacrament in the NT. Malachi hits hard on marriage as covenant.

Because God is indeed outside of time, how do we answer the question when asked “When were you saved?” I was saved when Christ died upon the Cross, and I continue to saved each and every time the Mass is celebrated until the end of time.*
 
It is important to understand that “time” in the first three fascinating chapters of Sacred Scripture is in the material world of science. There is no need for a conflict because the spiritual world of God is not similar to the material world of science. There is no comparison.

It is the point where material science intersects with the spiritual world of God that can lead to serious conflict.
Whenever we attend Mass, we return to the Calvary. The Mass is outside of time.
It is how we can we respond to those criticize the Catholic Church, thinking that we are offering a new sacrifice every week. * They don’t know that the Communion of Saints joins us at the altar. It’s why the priest takes three steps back during the consecration (to make room for the Saints).
When we pray the LOTH, we honor the hours of the day. The Church in keeping with St. Paul’s words prays unceasingly because the world rotates.
The Catholic Church teaches us to read the Bible as a whole, the OT sheds light on the NT. It also explicitly says “do not quibble about words.”
There are non-believers who will pick out verses from scripture to show its apparent contradictions. It is why I find the instructions I was given as a Freshman in college so freeing. “Let the Bible question you.”
After God makes Eve from Adam’s rib in Genesis, we read “and that is why a man must leave mother and father and cling to his wife.”
Later in Exodus, God gives the Israelites the 10 Commandments. Included is the only Commandment with a promise. “Honor your father and mother.”
The correct relationship between newlyweds and their parents and new in-laws is found in the book of Tobit.
The oneness of the relationship created between man and woman through marriage is often referenced in the OT, and affirmed as a Sacrament in the NT. Malachi hits hard on marriage as covenant.

Because God is indeed outside of time, how do we answer the question when asked “When were you saved?” I was saved when Christ died upon the Cross, and I continue to saved each and every time the Mass is celebrated until the end of time.*

🙂
 
It is important to understand that “time” in the first three fascinating chapters of Sacred Scripture is in the material world of science. There is no need for a conflict because the spiritual world of God is not similar to the material world of science. There is no comparison.

It is the point where material science intersects with the spiritual world of God that can lead to serious conflict.
*Whenever we attend Mass, we return to the Calvary. The Mass is outside of time. *
It is how we can we respond to those criticize the Catholic Church, thinking that we are offering a new sacrifice every week. * They don’t know that the Communion of Saints joins us at the altar. It’s why the priest takes three steps back during the consecration (to make room for the Saints).
When we pray the LOTH, we honor the hours of the day. The Church in keeping with St. Paul’s words prays unceasingly because the world rotates.
The Catholic Church teaches us to read the Bible as a whole, the OT sheds light on the NT. It also explicitly says “do not quibble about words.”
There are non-believers who will pick out verses from scripture to show its apparent contradictions. It is why I find the instructions I was given as a Freshman in college so freeing. “Let the Bible question you.”
After God makes Eve from Adam’s rib in Genesis, we read “and that is why a man must leave mother and father and cling to his wife.”
Later in Exodus, God gives the Israelites the 10 Commandments. Included is the only Commandment with a promise. “Honor your father and mother.”
The correct relationship between newlyweds and their parents and new in-laws is found in the book of Tobit.
The oneness of the relationship created between man and woman through marriage is often referenced in the OT, and affirmed as a Sacrament in the NT. Malachi hits hard on marriage as covenant.

Because God is indeed outside of time,* how do we answer the question when asked “When were you saved?” I was saved when Christ died upon the Cross, and I continue to saved each and every time the Mass is celebrated until the end of time.

🙂
 
Whenever we attend Mass, we return to the Calvary. The Mass is outside of time.
This is a miracle that we can be a part of. It’s the miracle of the altar. It’s not a myth or something of “symbolic importance”. We have to have Faith to be a Catholic.
It is how we can we respond to those criticize the Catholic Church, thinking that we are offering a new sacrifice every week. * They don’t know that the Communion of Saints joins us at the altar. It’s why the priest takes three steps back during the consecration (to make room for the Saints). *
Many saints have had the spiritual vision to actually see the Hosts that surround the altar at Mass. The entire world would want to be there, at one Mass - if they knew and could see the reality. We’re blessed to know it ourselves.
There are non-believers who will pick out verses from scripture to show its apparent contradictions. It is why I find the instructions I was given as a Freshman in college so freeing. “Let the Bible question you.”
After God makes Eve from Adam’s rib in Genesis, we read “and that is why a man must leave mother and father and cling to his wife.”
Later in Exodus, God gives the Israelites the 10 Commandments. Included is the only Commandment with a promise. “Honor your father and mother.”
The correct relationship between newlyweds and their parents and new in-laws is found in the book of Tobit.
The oneness of the relationship created between man and woman through marriage is often referenced in the OT, and affirmed as a Sacrament in the NT. Malachi hits hard on marriage as covenant.
Excellent. 👍

Unfortunately, it is not only unbelievers who doubt the Holy Word. Many who claim to be Catholic do the same.
Because God is indeed outside of time, how do we answer the question when asked “When were you saved?” I was saved when Christ died upon the Cross, and I continue to saved each and every time the Mass is celebrated until the end of time.
Exactly.
 
Jesus’ resurrection is not an “extreme example”? What do we conclude when we apply reason to it?

Tim didn’t want to go down the path where he tells us which of Jesus’ miracles actually happened and which didn’t. But you could, if you’d like. As I said, there are people who deny that any miracles ever occurred, so you’re not offering anything new here.

What we end up with is a collection of myths and fictional accounts.
Seeing as you simply don’t “get it,” I’ll ask this question: did Jesus have brothers and sisters? I don’t mean half brothers or step sisters; I mean 100% brothers and sisters. After all, scripture relates this to us:

[2] And when the sabbath was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were in admiration at his doctrine, saying: How came this man by all these things? and what wisdom is this that is given to him, and such mighty works as are wrought by his hands? [3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, **the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? **And they were scandalized in regard of him. [4] And Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kindred.

Scripture makes it clear. What do you say?
 
Seeing as you simply don’t “get it,”
I think I get it. I asked you direct questions about miracles, even assuming that you denied them and instead of answering you said it was “pointless”. So, I don’t know, but I’m assuming you buy-into the Jesus Seminar stuff – as I mentioned, Crossan and others who deny the resurrection, and most deny the divinity of Christ (I don’t know if you go that far, but why not?)
I’ll ask this question: did Jesus have brothers and sisters? I don’t mean half brothers or step sisters; I mean 100% brothers and sisters. After all, scripture relates this to us:
*2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary,* the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Scripture makes it clear. What do you say?
The Catholic Encyclopedia does a pretty decent job with this:

The Brethren of the Lord
newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm

The decisive proof, however, is that the father and mother of at least two of these “brethren” are known to us. James and Joseph, or Joses, are, as we have seen, the sons of Alpheus, or Clopas, and of Mary, the sister of Mary the Mother of Jesus, and all agree that if these are not brothers of the Saviour, the others are not. This last argument disposes also of the theory that the “brethren” of the Lord were the sons of St. Joseph by a former marriage. They are then neither the brothers nor the step-brothers of the Lord. James, Joseph, and Jude are undoubtedly His cousins. If Simon is the same as the Symeon of Hegesippus, he also is a cousin, since this writer expressly states that he was the son of Clopas the uncle of the Lord, and the latter’s cousin. But whether they were cousins on their father’s or mother’s side, whether cousins by blood or merely by marriage, cannot be determined with certainty.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you denied the perpetual virginity of Our Lady - why not?
How about the virgin birth? I’ll guess that’s a gray area, or simply ruled out because there is no evidence, right?
 
Seeing as you simply don’t “get it,” I’ll ask this question: did Jesus have brothers and sisters? I don’t mean half brothers or step sisters; I mean 100% brothers and sisters. After all, scripture relates this to us:

[2] And when the sabbath was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were in admiration at his doctrine, saying: How came this man by all these things? and what wisdom is this that is given to him, and such mighty works as are wrought by his hands? [3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, **the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? **And they were scandalized in regard of him. [4] And Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kindred.

Scripture makes it clear. What do you say?
You do know very well that the word used for blood brother in Greek could be used to describe half-brothers, step-brothers, cousins, etc. The Eastern Fathers knew Greek pretty well and they held to the BVM’s perpetual virginity.
 
“Genesis does not contain purified myths.” Pontifical Biblical Commission, 1909.

Ed
 
I think I get it.

They are then neither the brothers nor the step-brothers of the Lord.
Oh, I see. So you now take a nuanced view, eh? Scripture distinctly refers to them as Christ’s “brothers,” but you accept the revisionism that supports your belief system and can simply ignore the text as an inconvenient distraction.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you denied the perpetual virginity of Our Lady - why not?
How about the virgin birth? I’ll guess that’s a gray area, or simply ruled out because there is no evidence, right?
I think it sad that, in not even comprehending the subject, you make yourself out to be nothing more than an ordinary fundamentalist who cannot abide by something that goes against scripture (unless it fits in your tidy little point of view) because you perceive the Catholic faith to be nothing but a house of cards that, when one cards falls, the whole thing comes tumbling down. You have no idea what scripture is, you have no idea of its intention, you certainly do not appreciate the many literary styles and devices that were employed by the inspired authors and you stand in marked opposition to someone as brilliant as Pope Benedict in biblical exegesis.
 
You do know very well that the word used for blood brother in Greek could be used to describe half-brothers, step-brothers, cousins, etc. The Eastern Fathers knew Greek pretty well and they held to the BVM’s perpetual virginity.
I do know it but if reggieM can hold me to a by-the-letter-literalism, then I should be able to do the same to him. And what was his response? To appeal to an authority that supports his stance.
 
Oh, I see. So you now take a nuanced view, eh? Scripture distinctly refers to them as Christ’s “brothers,” but you accept the revisionism that supports your belief system and can simply ignore the text as an inconvenient distraction.
So you don’t believe Mary is ever virgin?
 
Indeed. When one tries a conversation of discovery with fundamentalists, things come to a halt rather quickly.
The same could be said for people who basically allegorize even that which is not allegorical in its proper context.
 
The same could be said for people who basically allegorize even that which is not allegorical in its proper context.
And thats the real trick, isn’t it? To know what is historical and what is allegorical?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top