Old Testament question

[Mikaele]

Is God hardening Pharaoh’s heart a little unfair? Does that mean he didn’t have free will? Also, sending an angel to kill babies, that sounds a little evil for God to be doing. How do you answer people who have questions about some of the things found in the Old Testament that don’t seem to match up to our idea of a loving God?

 

[CFH]

Mikaele,

The Old Testament is certainly a beast to read, and you have good questions about the actions of God. My understanding is that all of God’s actions in the Old Testament need to be understood from a fatherly perspective. What that means is that when God calls Israel “my first-born son” (Ex 4: 22), he means that in the same way that we do when we talk of our first born sons (except me, I don’t have kids ). One of the things that fatherhood requires is discipline, and we see this in the Old Testament. First off, we see God punishing Adam and Eve for their original sin, we see God punishing Noah’s generation with the flood, and so on.

This gets even more interesting later on in the OT when Israel starts to demand a king (see Judges). God basically says that he will give them a king so that they can see for themselves how this will be bad for them. But God has a way of working through our stubborn-ness.

Regarding the Pharoah question, it is an excellent question. This is another example of God taking care of his “first-born son”. An important point to remember is that Israel is not God’s only son, but rather his first-born. All the nations of the earth are God’s children, and as such, are all subject to the same discipline. We have to read the story of Pharoah in this vein; we have to see God taking care of his children. We must see God putting the Israelites first in His Plan to redeem the world to himself. Through the nation of Israel, God brings forth a savior that saves us from our sins and allows us to enter into eternal life. In order to do that, God had to properly set the stage in the world, and part of this was allowing Israel to flourish in the promised land.

Not sure if this completely, or even remotely, answers your question, but hopefully it helps. God must be seen as a father guiding his child (Israel) and disciplining them appropriately.

A further note, in the document Dei Verbum, from Vatican II, the Church outlines some points for Catholics and how they ought to read the Bible. The very first point made is that Catholics need to read the Bible while keeping in mind “the content and unity of Scripture”. This means that single Bible passages often can not be separated from their place in the “big picture”. We read the Old and New Testament as if they are one story. I find this helpful to remember (and especially when I began reading the Bible) because oftentimes it helps explain stories that make little sense to us, such as the story of with Pharoah. What is God doing here? What is he trying to accomplish in the picture of salvation?

Again, hopefully this is helpful!

God bless you!

 

[bkayw]

When God places challenges in a life, there are two major ways that people play the hand their dealt.

Either they will be a willing servant and grow from the experience or they will harden their heart and suffer in greater ways absent the grace of God.

Pharaoh could have saved his people by listening to God’s instructions, allowing the Israelites to leave.

God attempted nine previous times to change Pharaoh’s mind. God would have saved both Egypt and the Israelites from the deadly chemical gas had Pharaoh listened to Moses.

 

[AnneElliot]

Is God hardening Pharaoh’s heart a little unfair? Does that mean he didn’t have free will?

Pharaoh did have free will… the best explanation for “God hardening Pharaoh’s heart” that I’ve heard goes like this: “The same sun that melts wax, hardens clay.” God’s grace, if we are open can melt our hearts like wax and conform us to Him. If we reject grace, and are closed to God, the more He pours out His grace, the more hardened we can become (if we allow ourselves).

Also, sending an angel to kill babies, that sounds a little evil for God to be doing. How do you answer people who have questions about some of the things found in the Old Testament that don’t seem to match up to our idea of a loving God?

It was a last resort, and He offered them a way out–they could’ve been saved by following His commands. And He also gave them 9 previous chances to repent and acknowledge Him.

There is a bigger picture to the Old Testament, sometimes people get bogged down in the details and forget that the Bible is demonstrating salvation history, not secular history. It’s God actions in the world, what particular events meant and revealed about God and our relationship to Him… not a transcript of historical events. For example, the 10 plagues in Egypt are direct confrontations against the Egyptian gods that the Israelites had begun to worship (each Plague was an Egyptian god… they worshiped frogs, Ra was the sun god (and God gave them a plague of darkness… is it He who rules the sun, etc., etc.). “Going out into the wilderness to offer sacrifice” was not just about worshiping the one true God, it was about slaughtering the Egyptian gods (i.e., they are false!) and reminding the Jews who’s really in control. God is God. This was why they had to leave Egypt to do it—why it would have been “abominable to the Egyptians”. There’s more to the story than what’s on the surface…

 

[rcjones]

Is God hardening Pharaoh’s heart a little unfair?

How about:

Since God always does right, and it seems unfair to me that he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, what am I not understanding.

There are way too many who start out with a presumption that God can’t be trusted for one reason or another. How can you trust him with your salvation with such unbelief?

 

[Splinker]

How about:

Since God always does right, and it seems unfair to me that he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, what am I not understanding.

There are way too many who start out with a presumption that God can’t be trusted for one reason or another. How can you trust him with your salvation with such unbelief?

If I recall correctly, God does not actually harden Pharoah’s heart until after the fourth or fith plague. And Pharoah had years before Moses to do the right thing. In other words, he is given several chances to free the Jews and he refuses. He hardens his own heart long before God gets to it.

 

[PJM]

=Mikaele;7134867]Is God hardening Pharaoh’s heart a little unfair? Does that mean he didn’t have free will? Also, sending an angel to kill babies, that sounds a little evil for God to be doing. How do you answer people who have questions about some of the things found in the Old Testament that don’t seem to match up to our idea of a loving God?

***A Good place to start is a correct understanding of who and what God is.

God is all and only all Good things Perfected."***

While God can permit evil, God in an absolute sense cannot CAUSE evil.

Having shared this it is imperative to understand that God’s application of Devine Justice cannot be evil.

In the case o Pharoh we need to note the following:

**Exo. 1: 8-14 **"Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph. And he said to his people, “Behold, the people of Israel are too many and too mighty for us. ome, let us deal shrewdly with them, lest they multiply, and, if war befall us, they join our enemies and fight against us and escape from the land.” Therefore they set taskmasters over them to afflict them with heavy burdens; and they built for Pharaoh store-cities, Pithom and Ra-am’ses. But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and the more they spread abroad. And the Egyptians were in dread of the people of Israel. So they made the people of Israel serve with rigor, and made their lives bitter with hard service, in mortar and brick, and in all kinds of work in the field; in all their work they made them serve with rigor. "

***This lack of charity gives evidence that Pharoah’s heart was already hardened before Yahweh got directly involved with Moses.

And Pharoh was FIRST to kill innocent babies!

Then notice the progression and seriouness of the warnings.***

**v. 15-16 **Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiph’rah and the other Pu’ah, “When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, she shall live.”

**Exo. 17-22 **“When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, she shall live.” But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, …
[22] Then Pharaoh commanded all his people, “Every son that is born to the Hebrews you shall cast into the Nile, but you shall let every daughter live.”

***Each denial of Yahweh’s request resulted in a further harding of the Pharoahs heart. So God was TRULY justifed in stepping in, and further hardened the heart of Pharoah.

God can respond harshly but always in Divine Justice.

The second point is to CONSIDER who and what Jesus Christ is:

Jesus in an absolute sense did not HAVE TO:

Become Incarnate [human like us in everyway but sin.] Other ways could have been taken by God.

Christ did not HAVE TO suffer His passion and freely choose to be nailed to the cross

Jesus did not have to Institute The Mass nd the Eucharist; the very gift of Himself. Each one of these acts gives evidence of a ever increasing love for us.

---

Keep that in mind when judging God’s actions.

Love and prayers,Pat

 

[zarthan]

Is God hardening Pharaoh’s heart a little unfair? Does that mean he didn’t have free will? Also, sending an angel to kill babies, that sounds a little evil for God to be doing. How do you answer people who have questions about some of the things found in the Old Testament that don’t seem to match up to our idea of a loving God?

This may not answer your question, but there are several scriptures which may help. “resist not the Holy Spirit” “grieve not the Holy Spirit”. “quench not the Holy Spirit”
Also, from John 1: …“in Him was life, and the life was the light of men”…“the light shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehends it not”.

We are all born with a conscience, Pharoah included. In addition, Pharoah saw the mighty works of the Lord and on several occasions Pharoah asked Moses to take away a particular plague and the LORD heard Moses prayer. After awhile, if we continue in our pride and our sin, we are danger of having a seared conscience, which may be another term for the hardening of the heart. Pharoah made many choices that caused the light that was given to him to become incomprehensible.

 

[Third_Day]

Is God hardening Pharaoh’s heart a little unfair? Does that mean he didn’t have free will? Also, sending an angel to kill babies, that sounds a little evil for God to be doing. How do you answer people who have questions about some of the things found in the Old Testament that don’t seem to match up to our idea of a loving God?

First, Pharoh hardened his own heart.
Exodus 9:34 “But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned yet agin and hardened his heart, he and his servants. So the heart of Pharaoh was hardened and he did not let the people of Israel go.”

Then God hardened Pharaoh’s heart in Exodus 10:1

God desires that all men be saved but not all men will accept God’s grace therefore God will cease to send grace to those who reject it. That was the case with Pharaoh. God stopped sending him grace and his heart hardened. That does not take away Pharaoh’s free will.

God can punish whomever He wants for His purpose as Paul tell us in Romans 9:14-24. Who are we to question God?

 

[Pax]

How about:

Since God always does right, and it seems unfair to me that he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, what am I not understanding.

There are way too many who start out with a presumption that God can’t be trusted for one reason or another. How can you trust him with your salvation with such unbelief?

God, indeed, always does right. The right thing does not always sit well with an evil heart. Pharaoh believed himself to be a god. Such pride will not make it easy for Pharaoh to respond favorably and obediently to the truth that is our Creator, Lord, and one true God. Some of the Egyptians did respond favorably to God in Pharaoh’s Egypt and they left Egypt as part of the “mixed multitude” described in Exodus 12:38.

God bless