Old testament reliable?

[wiggbuggie]

recently there has been alot of posts discussing the new testament concerning the gospels, pauls letters are they truly written by him etc etc But I ask what about the old testament? the torah, prophetic books? These are more difficult to study cause they are much older not to mention we have fragments of new testament books and are closer to us we know more about roman society etc.

As for the old testament mainly the torah and prophectic books, scholars argue Moses can’t possibly be the author of the torah even though first centuary jews thought that way. They point to 4 sources Yahwist, Elohim, duetorionical, and priesty source. Thats why in the torah we see god being angry in one story and compassionate in another and we also see repititions because they all come from different sources each with there own traditions and views on God.

My question is why was the torah written? I think that the jewish people needed and indentity since most of the old testaments books were written and compiled during the exile and post exile period. They wanted as a nation for people to know who they are. Not to mention there was a political and religious reform in Isreal during one of the kings i believe (hazekiah sp) Israel for the most part was polytheistic contrary to populare believe and the king/priest council ushered in the strict worship of yahwa only

thoughts comments?

 

[Rainaldo]

The Torah was written so that the people would have a fixed reference of what God instructed Moses to give the people, pretty much the same reason why the Gospels were written. The Jewish people already had an identity long before Sinai since they were all descendants of Jacob’s 12 sons.

The fact that the Jews had a Bible for themselves going back to the time of Moses certainly helped them maintain their ethnic and religious identity during the exile and post-exile periods, but you also have to remember that they were exiled precisely because during the times of the prophets they had already been broadly abandoning the order handed down to them.

 

[meltzerboy]

For Orthodox Jews, the Torah was written as a precise Law instructing the Jewish people with regard to G-d’s expectations of them in every domain of life. Each of the five books of the Torah, with its 613 commandments, elaborates upon the Ten Commandments in either direct or indirect ways. Orthodox Judaism believes that the Torah was given directly to Moses by G-d and transcribed by Moses and no one else. Everything in it is the divinely-inspired Written Law. However, the interpretation of Torah Law, particularly in the more esoteric portions, is not uniform among rabbis and scholars, although there are generally held authoritative views. Studying and interpreting the intricacies of the Law is a lifelong endeavor, and the Oral Law (Talmud), as well as the Kabbala, provide interpretive support and application to present-day issues.

 

[wiggbuggie]

do you believe that the torah was literally penned by moses himself or is there a oral, written tradition going back to the time of the patriachs? Like the gospels were composed by the early church 30-40 years after the events of Jesus using oral/writtien tradition passed down is the old testament the same?

 

[meltzerboy]

do you believe that the torah was literally penned by moses himself or is there a oral, written tradition going back to the time of the patriachs? Like the gospels were composed by the early church 30-40 years after the events of Jesus using oral/writtien tradition passed down is the old testament the same?

Orthodox Jews believe that BOTH the Written Law (Torah) and the Oral Law (the tradition which was subsequently passed down and compiled by rabbis and sages in the Talmud, particularly the Mishna, and elucidated, interpreted and applied in the Gemara) were originally given by G-d directly to Moses. I’m not an Orthodox Jew, but a Reform Jew. I believe the Talmud is the Oral Tradition of Judaism, full of wisdom, authoritative perhaps and even essential to providing continuity within Judaism, but not divinely inspired Law. Whether the Torah was directly transcribed by Moses alone is a matter of faith, and I believe it was in the face of historical evidence to the contrary. Not all Reform or even Conservative Jews agree. That doesn’t mean, however, Jews of different branches of Judaism interpret the meaning of the Torah in exactly the same way; far from it. Even within the Orthodox Jewish tradition, there are several interpretations in many parts. But the Law remains, nonetheless, to be studied, discussed, debated, clarified, and practiced from one generation to the next; and with respect to certain essential elements of Jewish belief, there is virtually universal agreement.

 

[Rainaldo]

do you believe that the torah was literally penned by moses himself or is there a oral, written tradition going back to the time of the patriachs? Like the gospels were composed by the early church 30-40 years after the events of Jesus using oral/writtien tradition passed down is the old testament the same?

Yes, literally penned by Moses. But I don’t want to split hairs. The last eight verses of the last chapter of the last book of the pentateuch were obviously added by someone else, and occasional editorial remarks such as “therefore the name of the city is Beersheba unto this day” are dead giveaways that Moses’ text has been touched up by later editors.

But look, if I write a book, and my publisher has an editor touch up my manuscript before sending it to the printer, I’m still the “author”.

The oral tradition surrounding the Torah includes information that by nature is difficult to write down, such as the blueprints for the temple; information taken for granted at the time but liable to being forgotten, such as the definitions of terms like circumcision and phylactery; and distinctions that inevitably needed to be made in light of unforeseeable circumstances or unanticipated questions, like what is really meant by “work” in the sense intended in the Third Commandment.

The NT and the magisterium of the Church stand in the same relation to one another. Whereas in Judaism the consensus of peer-reviewed authorities has the final say in interpretation of the Torah, in the Church it is the ordinary and extraordinary teachings of the bishops. Some of these teachings were initially passed on orally, but it’s safe to say that practically all of it is now written down somewhere. For example the NT nowhere describes the form of the Sacrament of Marriage, or defines whether a woman can receive Holy Orders, whether sprinkling suffices for Baptism, whether brandy counts as wine for the Eucharist, and so on. And it’s not just questions about the sacraments: there is the definition of the Biblical canon itself.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I suggest that God arranged Moses’ adoption by Pharaoh’s daughter so that he would receive the education necessary to write the Torah.